DART Underground may be back on the table

StreetLight

The project does not appear to have been totally dismissed....

From the Irish Independent:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/controversial-3bn-dart-back-on-table-34844877.html

Idbatterim

Dart underground wasn't off the table. They simply favour going ahead with a new cheaper likely inferior scheme, same as metro north. When the reason for this is political only rather than a rational decision on the best long term scheme. It's a joke in my opinion. Kicking back two good to go projects that were years in planning to save peanuts. Factor in construction inflation and the cost of gridlock to Dublin economy ... Even if the revised scheme headline cost came in five hundred million cheaper, is half a decade delay on each project worth a pathetic hundred million a year on each project over five years in the scheme of things?

spuddy

StreetLight wrote: »

The project does not appear to have been totally dismissed....

From the Irish Independent:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/controversial-3bn-dart-back-on-table-34844877.html

Didn't the rail procurement order run out last September?

cgcsb

Who will be fired for wasting 10s of millions on letting the planning expire only to come up with a 'new' 'plan', that is the same 9 months later?

I don't really see how pennies can be FG pinched on this one. No real scope for surface running or shorter platforms(which will cost a bomb to fix on metro north).

end of the road

this is beyond a joke at this stage. one day it's off the next it's on the next it's off and the next it's on again.
it's very simple. the government need to get it built, do it properly, and stop making excuses. stop trying to find ways to penny pinch as it's not going to work, whereas doing it properly will. any inferior scheme the government will try implement in the name of penny pinching will likely cost more anyway.

Jamie2k9

We know one fact and only one which is Ross will be out of the DoT before it's even contemplated again.

Tarabuses

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

We know one fact and only one which is Ross will be out of the DoT before it's even contemplated again.

Which is unfortunate since he seems to view Dublin rail projects in a positive light.

ClovenHoof

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooh Hokey Pokey!

ClovenHoof

Tarabuses wrote: »

Which is unfortunate since he seems to view Dublin rail projects in a positive light.

They all do until it comes to making a decision.

We don't beed 'favours', we need the damn things built like in every other city the size and importance of Dublin.

jd

Tarabuses wrote:

Which is unfortunate since he seems to view Dublin rail projects in a positive light.

Talk is cheap. He knows the planning process for DU would have to be restarted. And he had a go at IR raising the heavy rail link to Dublin Airport again. MN (optimised!!) Is back into redesign, and while the heavy rail link isn't a great solution, it would have a chance of being delivered this side of 2021

Jamie2k9

Tarabuses wrote: »

Which is unfortunate since he seems to view Dublin rail projects in a positive light.

He and many transport ministers would however if there was money available over last 10 years the others would give it the green light.

He is not going to have a spare penny over his term even if the economy is doing good and beats forecasts. It will simply take 10-15 years before they even open the plans for this project. The Metro North will barley get off the ground and now he is talking about this.

It hasn't taking him long to get the grip of "political spin"

IE 222

Would a revised routing taking into account the proposed new city center plans for dublin bus be wise.

I also felt connolly (all rail ) would be a better connection than Pearse and a westmoreland Street (luas) would save a few a kilometres than going to Stephens green and maybe bring the proposed Christchurch back towards Georges St. for dublin bus connections.

Maybe use the savings for an airport dart line.

monument

IE 222 wrote: »

Would a revised routing taking into account the proposed new city center plans for dublin bus be wise.

I also felt connolly (all rail ) would be a better connection than Pearse and a westmoreland Street (luas) would save a few a kilometres than going to Stephens green and maybe bring the proposed Christchurch back towards Georges St. for dublin bus connections.

Maybe use the savings for an airport dart line.

What savings?

There's space at Christchurch / DCC offices for a station box but little or no space at Georges St.

There's works under Pearse to allow for a station but none under Connolly and there's space in the Docklands for trains to surface but none at Connolly.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

He and many transport ministers would however if there was money available over last 10 years the others would give it the green light.

He is not going to have a spare penny over his term even if the economy is doing good and beats forecasts. It will simply take 10-15 years before they even open the plans for this project. The Metro North will barley get off the ground and now he is talking about this.

It hasn't taking him long to get the grip of "political spin"

Are we sure he wants metro to go ahead?

IE 222

monument wrote: »

What savings?

There's space at Christchurch / DCC offices for a station box but little or no space at Georges St.

There's works under Pearse to allow for a station but none under Connolly and there's space in the Docklands for trains to surface but none at Connolly.






Sorry I added the 2 comments together by mistake.

MY REPLY:

Savings would be made in not routing via Pearse and St. Stephens green. 3km or so would be saved by taking a more direct route towards Heuston via connolly and westmoreland Street.

I'd still use docklands to enter/exit tunnel. I'm sure away can be found to build under connolly. Barnado square could be used for main entrance station for a dublin bus connection station serving Christchurch, Temple bar area as well with possible smaller entrance in places.

Looking at the wider picture some of the costs fall into electrifying maynooth line ect. Either postpone that or revise that plan as well.

Maybe he's using his head a bit to make dublin a bit more attractive to the big companies that might be looking to relocate after brexit.

monument

IE 222 wrote: »

Sorry I added the 2 comments together by mistake.

MY REPLY:

Savings would be made in not routing via Pearse and St. Stephens green. 3km or so would be saved by taking a more direct route towards Heuston via connolly and westmoreland Street.

I'd still use docklands to enter/exit tunnel. I'm sure away can be found to build under connolly. Barnado square could be used for main entrance station for a dublin bus connection station serving Christchurch, Temple bar area as well with possible smaller entrance in places.

Looking at the wider picture some of the costs fall into electrifying maynooth line ect. Either postpone that or revise that plan as well.

Maybe he's using his head a bit to make dublin a bit more attractive to the big companies that might be looking to relocate after brexit.

This is rough drawing but the red route shows your suggested route (with your suggested station locations marked with stars, and the blue line is a rough outline of the last official Dart Underground route...



...how do you think your suggested route is shorter?

Also if you were to strip out stops in between, the direct route from Heuston to Docklands is around 4.2km and Dart Underground is only around 0.5km extra. Short of using a wormhole you're not going to shave 3km off any route between Heuston and Docklands.

Jamie2k9

monument wrote: »

What savings?

There's space at Christchurch / DCC offices for a station box but little or no space at Georges St.

There's works under Pearse to allow for a station but none under Connolly and there's space in the Docklands for trains to surface but none at Connolly.




Are we sure he wants metro to go ahead?

It won't be up to him anyway, will be the next ministers job!

On a general note should we not just merge both DU and MN together and do Swords-Airport-Drumcondra-Connolly/Bus Station or Pearse (Optional)-Stephens Green & Heuston with a terminus in Stepehns Green for some services. All major transport hubs linked.

Personally I have never been a fan of DU.

markpb

Jamie2k9 wrote:

On a general note should we not just merge both DU and MN together and do Swords-Airport-Drumcondra-Connolly/Bus Station or Pearse (Optional)-Stephens Green & Heuston with a terminus in Stepehns Green for some services. All major transport hubs linked.

What about all these places between the airport and drumcondra? You know the ones where people live and work that aren't transport hubs.

Jamie2k9

markpb wrote: »

What about all these places between the airport and drumcondra? You know the ones where people live and work that aren't transport hubs.

I was only listing the main route points, yes of course there will be other stops along the route.