2016 Mazda 6 diesel, Avensis diesel out something else?

3rdDegree

I guess some quick background. The wife's 21 year old Honda is coming to the end of its life. I have a 10 year old 1.8 petrol Mazda 6 and I plan to give her that and buy a new car myself.

My old petrol Mazda is a super car, never giving an ounce of trouble. So I wanted to get a new Mazda 6. Problem is, the petrol in the Mazda is just the basic model and I really wanted the Executive SE, which only comes in the 2.2 diesel. The Mazda is a lovely car and is beautiful to drive. But from reading here, I'm afraid of the engine in it.

I also drove an Avensis 2.0 diesel. It's nice, but I much prefer the Mazda. But I'm guessing the BMW diesel engine in the Avensis is a lot more reliable than the Mazda?

I drive about 12,000 miles a year, not a lot for diesel, but I can't find anything I like in a petrol. It's all diesel these days!

I guess I'm looking for advice:

Would I be mad to buy the Mazda? Are their diesel engines really as bad as some here on Boards say?

Is the Avensis the sensible buy?

Any alternatives?

The other car I was considering and will drive this week is the 2.0 diesel Mondeo. Haven't done a lot of research on these yet, but engine seems ok. The Titanium model seems to be a bit more pricey than the Mazda and Avensis.

Much appreciated.

Atlantic Dawn

The petrol engine is available in all spec from mazda.co.uk, is there a possibility an Irish dealer could order you one if you asked them?

R.O.R

If you really want Petrol then the Passat 1.4Tsi is really the only sensible option in a car that size. Similar price to a Mazda6 2.2d Exec SE would get you a 1.4Tsi Comfortline Business Edition with the Tech Pack.

I wouldn't go with a Mazda6 diesel come hell or high water.

bazz26

Avensis is ancient and outclassed by it's rivals these days, it's basically the same car since 2009.

What is your budget and do you exclusively need a car the size of the Mazda6, also does it have to be brand new?

vectra

R.O.R wrote: »

If you really want Petrol then the Passat 1.4Tsi is really the only sensible option in a car that size. Similar price to a Mazda6 2.2d Exec SE would get you a 1.4Tsi Comfortline Business Edition with the Tech Pack.

I wouldn't go with a Mazda6 diesel come hell or high water.

I was about to suggest Passat.
150 - Highline - BE

colm_mcm

Is300h? Think they're late 30s price wise.
Not a fan of the looks, but others are. No arguing with the bang for buck.
€180 tax, 223bhp

vectra

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is300h? Think they're late 30s price wise.
Not a fan of the looks, but others are. No arguing with the bang for buck.
€180 tax, 223bhp

Nice car.
I was sizing up an is 300h f sport myself for my next car.

bazz26

Real world performance of the IS300h's CVT gearbox is supposed to be a bit frustrating from what reviews I've seen.

grogi

bazz26 wrote: »

Real world performance of the IS300h's CVT gearbox is supposed to be a bit frustrating from what reviews I've seen.

It's just the sensation, not the actual performance...

But I guess what's the point of it when you don't feel it?

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote: »

Real world performance of the IS300h's CVT gearbox is supposed to be a bit frustrating from what reviews I've seen.

Every review of a Toyota/Lexus hybrid ever!

3rdDegree

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The petrol engine is available in all spec from mazda.co.uk, is there a possibility an Irish dealer could order you one if you asked them?

I doubt they would, to be honest. But with sterling the way it is, I could certainly go to the North and buy it myself. If I found one over six months old, I'd even make a saving (which in fairness would be more of a motivator than a few features on a higher spec car).

R.O.R wrote: »

If you really want Petrol then the Passat 1.4Tsi is really the only sensible option in a car that size. Similar price to a Mazda6 2.2d Exec SE would get you a 1.4Tsi Comfortline Business Edition with the Tech Pack.

I wouldn't go with a Mazda6 diesel come hell or high water.

Yep, I really don't think I can touch a Mazda diesel.

As for the Passat, if I stretched a bit I could stretch to the Highline BMT 2.0 TDI 150HP. I know it's a diesel, but I'm guessing the engine in the Passat is much more reliable than the one in the Mazda.

Does anyone have any views on the Mondeo diesel? Are they a good engine?

Thanks all.

ofcork

A diesel except the mazda should be ok once it gets a good long drive every week or so i have my 12 avensis diesel over 18 months doing around 200 miles a week tops and no bother.

3rdDegree

ofcork wrote: »

A diesel except the mazda should be ok once it gets a good long drive every week or so i have my 12 avensis diesel over 18 months doing around 200 miles a week tops and no bother.

Thanks. I'd heard that alright. How long is a "good long drive"?

Cheers

grogi

3rdDegree wrote: »

Thanks. I'd heard that alright. How long is a "good long drive"?

Cheers

30 mins or so without the Grandma's hat.

ofcork

I do a 120 mile round trip on 100kph roads and all good so far the new avensis are supposed to be better than the last even though its only the 2nd facelift of the 09 model.

bazz26

Ford Mondeo is available with a 1.5 litre Ecoboost turbo petrol engine. Whether a dealer would have the motivation to order you one is another thing.

R.O.R

3rdDegree wrote: »

Yep, I really don't think I can touch a Mazda diesel.

As for the Passat, if I stretched a bit I could stretch to the Highline BMT 2.0 TDI 150HP. I know it's a diesel, but I'm guessing the engine in the Passat is much more reliable than the one in the Mazda.

Does anyone have any views on the Mondeo diesel? Are they a good engine?

Thanks all.

Passat engine is much more reliable than the Mazda. If the 150 suffers from the same issues as the 140 it replaced, it's not without it's own issues, but fairly minor and not due for a while on a new one. EGR intercooler or Waterpump are the main issues. Generally don't appear until 120,00km upwards and €700 (or less depending on goodwill) will have it sorted.

Mondeo 2.0 is a good engine as well, and no issues spring to mind on the new models, but as far as value for money goes, the Passat is the better investment.

30 minute drive every couple of weeks should be enough to keep the DPF clear, and if you are planning on changing in the next 5 years, the extra cost of the diesel over the petrol will probably pay for itself on the resale value, but if you are keeping it for a long time, the Petrol may be the better bet.

The 1.5 TDCi engine in the Mondeo is very good for what it is, and I wouldn't rule that out without driving it.

Had a quick look at the Superb this morning and the 1.4Tsi in that is only 110bhp apparently - it's 150bhp in the Passat.

Any way you could stretch to €42k for a BMW 330e. Amazing value for money for what it is, but still a fairly high starting price.

fatalll

3rdDegree wrote: »

I doubt they would, to be honest. But with sterling the way it is, I could certainly go to the North and buy it myself. If I found one over six months old, I'd even make a saving (which in fairness would be more of a motivator than a few features on a higher spec car).



Yep, I really don't think I can touch a Mazda diesel.

As for the Passat, if I stretched a bit I could stretch to the Highline BMT 2.0 TDI 150HP. I know it's a diesel, but I'm guessing the engine in the Passat is much more reliable than the one in the Mazda.

Does anyone have any views on the Mondeo diesel? Are they a good engine?

Thanks all.

You will never have a problem with the diesel engine in the Mondeo.
Probably better off with 2.0L Diesel rather than 1.5/1.6 unless your not worried about power

Nonoperational

As far as I know the new VW engines don't passively regenerate, so no point in going for a long drive unless the DPF needs to regen. You'll know because it will rev slightly higher than normal at idle and the start stop system will be deactivated.

AMKC

What about a Skoda Octavia 1.0TSi supposed to really good and has more power than the 1.2TSi it used to have. You should check out the Kia Optima too and Hyundai 140.

grogi

AMKC wrote: »

What about a Skoda Octavia 1.0TSi supposed to really good and has more power than the 1.2TSi it used to have. You should check out the Kia Optima too and Hyundai 140.

As four-pot is never as good as a vi-six, a three-cylinder is worse than four

3rdDegree

Very grateful for the great advice I'm getting here.

I drove the Passat 2.0 BMT 2.0 TDI 150HP. I must say, I really liked it. It reminded me of how I used to love that solid feeling I got when I used to own European cars. So thanks again for the tip!

The Comfort line I was looking at is coming in at just over 35k (including delivery and the very few extras I got). I am buying straight, no trade-in and no finance so I was expecting a bit of a discount. He offered me only 3.6% discount. Other dealers were offering me up to 8% with the strong hint that if I got a better offer, they'd improve theirs. Is 3.6% not a bit tight? Maybe they are having no bother selling these things!

Thanks again.

bazz26

Does it have to be brand new?

Here is a 161 Highline with the Business Edition pack asking 34k, I'm sure it could be got for a good less on a straight deal:
http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Volkswagen/Passat/HL-BE/200914655620394940/

Or what about a Skoda Superb? Pretty much the same car as the Passat except for the styling:
http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Skoda/Superb/STYLE-2.0TDI/201014630836297890/

chicorytip

bazz26 wrote: »

Avensis is ancient and outclassed by it's rivals these days, it's basically the same car since 2009.

What is your budget and do you exclusively need a car the size of the Mazda6, also does it have to be brand new?

The recently revised Avensis comes with a new diesel engine made by BMW which replaces the aging Toyota unit so it may be worthy of consideration.

grogi

chicorytip wrote: »

The recently revised Avensis comes with a new diesel engine made by BMW which replaces the aging Toyota unit so it may be worthy of consideration.

N47... Does it ring a bell?! At least they are traverse in Toyotas, aren't they?

bazz26

chicorytip wrote: »

The recently revised Avensis comes with a new diesel engine made by BMW which replaces the aging Toyota unit so it may be worthy of consideration.

That's hardly a fitting endorsement considering the track record of those BMW engines around reliability. And the rest of the car is still from 2009 bar cosmetic changes. Mondeo, Passat, Superb, Mazda 6 are all superior and have moved the game on since them, only the most dedicated Sunday mass going Toyota fan would consider a new one these days imo.

colm_mcm

chicorytip wrote: »

The recently revised Avensis comes with a new diesel engine made by BMW which replaces the aging Toyota unit so it may be worthy of consideration.

The rest of the car wasn't class leading 7 years ago though.

SBPhoto

bazz26 wrote: »

That's hardly a fitting endorsement considering the track record of those BMW engines around reliability. And the rest of the car is still from 2009 bar cosmetic changes. Mondeo, Passat, Superb, Mazda 6 are all superior and have moved the game on since them, only the most dedicated Sunday mass going Toyota fan would consider a new one these days imo.

Its well known that bazz26 is very anti Toyota and puts them down at every opportunity I think the new Avensis is a fine car and are still very popular.

R.O.R

3rdDegree wrote: »

The Comfort line I was looking at is coming in at just over 35k (including delivery and the very few extras I got). I am buying straight, no trade-in and no finance so I was expecting a bit of a discount. He offered me only 3.6% discount. Other dealers were offering me up to 8% with the strong hint that if I got a better offer, they'd improve theirs. Is 3.6% not a bit tight? Maybe they are having no bother selling these things!

Thanks again.

3.6% is very tight. There is quite a bit more margin in them - I'd aim for 8%-10% off total price (inc. options & delivery)

SBPhoto wrote: »

Its well known that bazz26 is very anti Toyota and puts them down at every opportunity I think the new Avensis is a fine car and are still very popular.

But he's on the nose in this case. There's nothing really wrong with the Avensis, but there's nothing that makes it stand out against the competition. If you need something to get you from A-B with the minimum of fuss (but possibly with a numb arse) then it does the job, but not as well as a Mondeo/Passat/Superb/Insignia/i40.

I've had a spare Avensis here in storage for a customer as the main driver is on long term sick, so it's been filling in for damaged cars and where people are waiting on new cars. Not one of the last 5 people to use it has had anything positive to say about it.

chicorytip

It (Avensis) is still a very good car, good to drive and likely to prove more reliable than the other models mentioned here.

R.O.R

chicorytip wrote: »

It (Avensis) is still a very good car, good to drive and likely to prove more reliable than the other models mentioned here.

Average to drive and not a patch on the Mondeo, Passat or Superb.

1.6 Engine is weak, and feels poor compared to the smaller engined versions of the above.

Reliability isn't what Toyota's used to be. Had issues with quite a few newer models pulling quite hard to the left, and no one can sort that out.

bazz26

SBPhoto wrote: »

Its well known that bazz26 is very anti Toyota and puts them down at every opportunity I think the new Avensis is a fine car and are still very popular.

Lol, I've owned a few Toyotas in the past including the Avensis so you're talking nonsense and still doesn't change the fact that the current Avensis is a poor outdated car. As I said only real Toyota devotees who wouldn't dare venture outside their comfort zone continue to buy new ones because they only ever bought an Avensis before that one. Drive something else and you'll soon realise how far the current Avensis is behind it's rivals.

colm_mcm

Worth noting that the Passat has outsold the Avensis more than 2:1 this year. And that's with all the drama over emissions too.
Skoda superb is only 25 units behind the Avensis so far this year.

Compare that with 2009 where the Avensis outsold the Superb 6:1 and the Avensis outsold the Passat 1.8:1

ofcork

R.O.R wrote: »

Average to drive and not a patch on the Mondeo, Passat or Superb.

1.6 Engine is weak, and feels poor compared to the smaller engined versions of the above.

Reliability isn't what Toyota's used to be. Had issues with quite a few newer models pulling quite hard to the left, and no one can sort that out.

Ive always felt that my 12 avensis is inclined to pull left as well had alignment/tracking done alot and still does it.

3rdDegree

Thanks all for the great advice and help. It is very much appreciated.

In the end, it's come down to a choice between a Mondeo 2.0 litre diesel Titanium and the Passat 2.0 diesel Comfortline. Although I suspect the Passat may be a slightly better buy in terms of engine and resale, I think we have more or less decided on the Mondeo. We think the Mondeo is a much nicer car in terms of looks and finish. Also lovely to drive (as is the Passat, in fairness). Lift back in the Mondeo suits our business very well. Finally, getting it for a better price than the Passat (VW dealers really unwilling to budge on price, particularly in Dublin)!

Thanks again.

Nonoperational

Fine choice.

3rdDegree

Did the rounds of the garages on Monday and finally got about 14.5% off the list price off a new Mondeo Titanium. It worked out cheaper than the Mazda and significantly cheaper than the Passat. Picked it up yesterday and I'm delighted with it.

Thanks again everyone!