Unreturned deposit from now deceased landlord.

Jan Laco

Hi. I was in the process of trying to get my deposit returned from my landlord for over a month after moving out. He kept forgetting to send it as he agreed to.

However I've learned that he passed away recently, and of course I'm not going to chase it up for the moment.

What is the correct procedure from here?

davo10

Jan Laco wrote: »

Hi. I was in the process of trying to get my deposit returned from my landlord for over a month after moving out. He kept forgetting to send it as he agreed to.

However I've learned that he passed away recently, and of course I'm not going to chase it up for the moment.

What is the correct procedure from here?

His estate will owe you the deposit, you may have to wait for his will/inheritance to be sorted out. In the meantime, confirm that he has actually passed away.

4ensic15

Jan Laco wrote: »

Hi. I was in the process of trying to get my deposit returned from my landlord for over a month after moving out. He kept forgetting to send it as he agreed to.

However I've learned that he passed away recently, and of course I'm not going to chase it up for the moment.

What is the correct procedure from here?

Start an RTB claim against him. His personal rep will have to sort it out eventually.

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

Start an RTB claim against him. His personal rep will have to sort it out eventually.

What? Are you for real? The man is dead, there isn't a "personal rep" until the will is read/goes to probate. Any claim would be against his estate, not an individual.

4ensic15

davo10 wrote: »

What? Are you for real? The man is dead, there isn't a "personal rep" until the will is read/goes to probate. Any claim would be against his estate, not an individual.

The key issue is to have a claim in being and a per rep on notice when a per rep is appointed. The o/p may qualify for damages for wrongful withholding of the deposit from the estate ultimately. There may be a personal rep if there is a will. Devolution takes place immediately on death if the is a will. Distribution van't take place until after a grant of probate.

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

The key issue is to have a claim in being and a per rep on notice when a per rep is appointed. The o/p may qualify for damages for wrongful withholding of the deposit from the estate ultimately. There may be a personal rep if there is a will. Devolution takes place immediately on death if the is a will. Distribution van't take place until after a grant of probate.

Damages because the deposit wasn't returned on account of the LL dying? I can only assume you are joking.

Mrs OBumble

davo10 wrote: »

Damages because the deposit wasn't returned on account of the LL dying? I can only assume you are joking.

OP has told us that s/he was trying to get it returned for over a month beforehand.

68 lost souls

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP has told us that s/he was trying to get it returned for over a month beforehand.

I'm assuming if the LL is now deceased there may have been extenuating circumstances such as a fatal illness

genericguy

68 lost souls wrote: »

I'm assuming if the LL is now deceased there may have been extenuating circumstances such as a fatal illness

Business is business. Landlord wouldn't have let him stay for free if he was ill.

intheclouds

davo10 wrote: »

What? Are you for real? The man is dead, there isn't a "personal rep" until the will is read/goes to probate. Any claim would be against his estate, not an individual.

Should the OP just forgo their deposit because someone passed away?

I dont think so.

68 lost souls

intheclouds wrote: »

Should the OP just forgo their deposit because someone passed away?

I dont think so.

No but they should not be looking for damages that is just ridiculous

Claw Hammer

68 lost souls wrote: »

No but they should not be looking for damages that is just ridiculous

The o/p was entitled to the prompt return of the deposit. What if the o/p had no deposit for other accomodation and had to sleep in a pigsty?or have to pawn his family heirlooms?

68 lost souls

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The o/p was entitled to the prompt return of the deposit. What if the o/p had no deposit for other accomodation and had to sleep in a pigsty?or have to pawn his family heirlooms?

Then they would have been more proactive about getting it back from the landlord in the first place and been contacting on a daily basis not finding out some time later about the LL passing

intheclouds

68 lost souls wrote: »

Then they would have been more proactive about getting it back from the landlord in the first place and been contacting on a daily basis not finding out some time later about the LL passing

He was trying to get it for over a month.

jsd1004

On the same note if your tenant dies are you entitled to chase his estate/family for unpaid rent/bills etc

Claw Hammer

jsd1004 wrote: »

On the same note if your tenant dies are you entitled to chase his estate/family for unpaid rent/bills etc

Yes. But the claim has to be made within 28 days of the tenant dying. The duty is on the landlord to return the, not on the tenant to chase it.

Hollister11

You will have to deal with the executors of your landlords will. They are in charge of his estate.

dashoonage

Jaysus ya cant even die in peace in this country any more.

Hollister11

dashoonage wrote: »

Jaysus ya cant even die in peace in this country any more.

If the OP needs the deposit for another property, if the landlord is dead or not, there entitled to it back. You can't put your life on hold, even because of this unfortunate incident.

intheclouds

dashoonage wrote: »

Jaysus ya cant even die in peace in this country any more.

Actually you were never able to die in peace. You may rest in peace but if you have financial affairs that need sorting, they still need sorting, by someone, after your death.

The utility companies will still be looking to be paid etc..

Claw Hammer

Hollister11 wrote: »

You will have to deal with the executors of your landlords will. They are in charge of his estate.

There may not be a will, or executors!

intheclouds

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There may not be a will, or executors!

There will still be a representative of the estate.

This was a landlord, so he owned an asset. So there is an estate.

4ensic15

intheclouds wrote: »

There will still be a representative of the estate.

This was a landlord, so he owned an asset. So there is an estate.

If someone takes out a grant of administration there would be an administrator, not an executor.

gaius c

dashoonage wrote: »

Jaysus ya cant even die in peace in this country any more.

In fairness, the tenant needs the money more than the landlord.

Jan Laco

68 lost souls wrote: »

Then they would have been more proactive about getting it back from the landlord in the first place and been contacting on a daily basis not finding out some time later about the LL passing

Can you show me the lapses in how I was not proactive enough in getting the deposit back. How many conversations had I with the landlord? I asked here because I knew there would be knowledgeable people <mod snip: no need for sarcasm >

Jan Laco

dashoonage wrote: »

Jaysus ya cant even die in peace in this country any more.

If it was as simple as the landlord owing me money, I would not follow it up after his death.
But the fact is my deposit is my money, which he held until he was supposed to return it. The money was never his.

Jan Laco

Hollister11 wrote: »

You will have to deal with the executors of your landlords will. They are in charge of his estate.

Thank you. I don't know how I can get in touch or at what point? I don't want to get in touch with his family in a time like this. He wasn't registered with the PRTB.

P. Breathnach

Jan Laco wrote: »

Thank you. I don't know how I can get in touch or at what point? I don't want to get in touch with his family in a time like this. He wasn't registered with the PRTB.

I infer that the LL died at least a week ago. You might feel that it is a bit early to get in touch with his family, but my opinion is that it is not. Once the funeral has been held, somebody in the family will have to step up to the plate and deal with business matters. That person is likely to be the nominated executor (if there is a will) or the individual who will in due course apply for a "Grant of Administration" (if there is no will).

It's very awkward for you to be without your money, and you might have to wait more than a year for things to be sorted out, but that's how things work when a person dies owing money. But you do need them to know that you are owed the money.

If you are lucky, the family might be willing and able to pay you sooner, but don't make planes based on that possibility.

4ensic15

That is why a complaint should go to the RTB. They will write to the landlord and his per reps will open the letter and get the ball rolling. They will deal with the RTB.

the_pen_turner

why don't you send a registered post to the estate of the land lord

utmbuilder

I think you should get to grips with the high probability you wont get the deposit back.

4ensic15

utmbuilder wrote: »

I think you should get to grips with the high probability you wont get the deposit back.

Why wouldn't the o/p get the deposit back?

P. Breathnach

utmbuilder wrote: »

I think you should get to grips with the high probability you wont get the deposit back.

A debt owed by a deceased person becomes a debt of the estate, and the executor or administrator has a duty to see that it is paid (unless the estate is insolvent).

It might take some time.

P. Breathnach

4ensic15 wrote: »

That is why a complaint should go to the RTB. They will write to the landlord and his per reps will open the letter and get the ball rolling. They will deal with the RTB.

I don't see that this would get things achieved any faster than a direct approach, and invoking a complaint process might be more upsetting to the family than a sensitively constructed letter from OP.

4ensic15

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I don't see that this would get things achieved any faster than a direct approach, and invoking a complaint process might be more upsetting to the family than a sensitively constructed letter from OP.

First off, the o/p doesn't know whom he should approach. He doesn't know if there is a will or not. He doesn't know if there is an executor. It is common for bills to come in for deceased people after they die. There is no need for sensitivity anyway. There will be plenty of money in the estate as presumably the landlord owned at least 2 houses. a small bill will not put anyone out.

The_Conductor

Distasteful though it may sound- 4senic15 is right on this- the proper and correct course of action is to lodge a PRTB case- its going to take some time- however, there is absolutely no reason that the OP would not have their deposit returned in due course.

P. Breathnach

4ensic15 wrote: »

First off, the o/p doesn't know whom he should approach. He doesn't know if there is a will or not. He doesn't know if there is an executor. It is common for bills to come in for deceased people after they die. There is no need for sensitivity anyway. There will be plenty of money in the estate as presumably the landlord owned at least 2 houses. a small bill will not put anyone out.

There is a well-established protocol for contacting the survivors of a deceased person: write to "the personal representative of xxx" at the deceased's address. The term "personal representative" applies equally to executors or administrators.

While you might see no need for sensitivity, I see it as preferable to insensitivity. We are discussing dealing with people who have recently been bereaved.

Further, you have a better chance of getting a quick result if you do not immediately "go legal". Although, as I already said, you can't be sure of a quick outcome in any case.

Claw Hammer

P. Breathnach wrote: »

There is a well-established protocol for contacting the survivors of a deceased person: write to "the personal representative of xxx" at the deceased's address. The term "personal representative" applies equally to executors or administrators.

.

There might be no personal representatives at all yet if there is no administrator. Asking someone to pay money owed by a deceased person does not require any sensitivity. The o/p was in a business relationship and does not have to concern himself with niceties. The reality is that the per reps may not be willing to hand out the money without a determination order from the RTB. How do they know that the LL didnt give back the deposit and the o/p is now pulling a scam? If the property was not registered it is likely that the deceased's affairs are opaque. The LL sounds like a tight git and it is likely his heirs and assigns are the same.

utmbuilder

the RTB complaint would be viral material

"dear rtb, i didnt get my deposit back as the landlord died

how dare he"

4ensic15

utmbuilder wrote: »

the RTB complaint would be viral material

"dear rtb, i didnt get my deposit back as the landlord died

how dare he"

The landlord dies after the deposit was due. the death was not the cause of the return of the deposit. the non return of the deposit was due to meanness.

athtrasna

4ensic15 wrote: »

the non return of the deposit was due to meanness.

You don't know that, it could have been due to illness, financial issues or another factor. Please don't make wild assumptions to support your argument.

Padster90s

You won't get anything for a few weeks. Your LLs accounts will be frozen be by Revenue to see if he owes anyone. He owes you so you'll have for find a way of proving he owes you and find out who to give the claim info to. Be considerate yeah but he owes you and these things happen, its why Revenue freeze accounts.