Route 27B extends to Heuston

StreetLight

From the Dublin Bus website:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/27b211/

As a result of the 27B now linking Heuston and Connolly Stations, Route 90 is being withdrawn:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Changes-on-Route-27b-and-90/

AngryLips

This is great for connectivity to the northeast of the city, always hated dragging myself over to Abbey St/Connolly every time I wanted to catch a bus in that direction. Where did this route terminate before?

markpb

When did its northern terminus change from Harristown to Oscar Traynor? It looks like they also (at some stage) dropped the craziness with some buses only running to/from Castletimon and people changing buses in there.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

When did its northern terminus change from Harristown to Oscar Traynor? It looks like they also (at some stage) dropped the craziness with some buses only running to/from Castletimon and people changing buses in there.

It's changing from Harristown to Oscar Traynor Road with this timetable change.

Currently only two outbound buses terminate in Castletimon - why would people be changing there? Surely anyone going beyond Castletimon would get a 27b that does go beyond the estate.

This is the current timetable:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/27b21/

LXFlyer

AngryLips wrote: »

This is great for connectivity to the northeast of the city, always hated dragging myself over to Abbey St/Connolly every time I wanted to catch a bus in that direction. Where did this route terminate before?

Eden Quay.

markpb

lxflyer wrote:

Currently only two outbound buses terminate in Castletimon - why would people be changing there? Surely anyone going beyond Castletimon would get a 27b that does go beyond the estate.

There's a note at the bottom of the timetable showing that buses inbound in the morning are held in Castletimon until a fixed departure time. What tends to happen (our did when I used it regularly) is that one bus arrives the just before the next leaves so you can either sit there for 10-15 minutes or switch buses.

Anyway, the charge of southern end terminus is an interesting one. It'll be interesting to see the uptake of it.

L1011

Maybe theyll take down the pre-luas signs saying the 90 runs from "inside the station" (the old ramp) at connolly now!

cgcsb

Fantastic, I live just on the south quays so have easy access to all routes to the West and South East but getting to the north east of the city is a real hassle.

joegriffinjnr

I dont know why the 27B wasnt extended to the Airport, its lost the Swords RD connections now. A lot of Airport staff live in the D5 D17 areas. The connections from the airport to Hueston would be endless.

markpb

Local opposition to the northern terminus being changed to Oscar Traynor. TheJournal.ie

Losty Dublin

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

I dont know why the 27B wasnt extended to the Airport, its lost the Swords RD connections now. A lot of Airport staff live in the D5 D17 areas. The connections from the airport to Hueston would be endless.

The route is based in Harristown. Having it's terminus means less buses work to and from the garage out of service as was the case when it was based in Clontarf. It also makes it easier on drivers to take their rostered breaks without interfering with timetables too much. Combined, both factors make for more efficient use of resources and a better service to the public as a whole. An extension to the airport would have had to deal with these two issues, not to mention finding space there for the buses to lay over and more buses and drivers to cover the inevitable extra time that such a extension would require.

As I understand it, the 27B and the 4 ran empty to and from the garage so culling it won't affect that many passengers. Given that the 27B was to have been absorbed into the 79 as part of Network Direct, it's lucky that the route is still there at all.

LXFlyer

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The route is based in Harristown. Having it's terminus means less buses work to and from the garage out of service as was the case when it was based in Clontarf. It also makes it easier on drivers to take their rostered breaks without interfering with timetables too much. Combined, both factors make for more efficient use of resources and a better service to the public as a whole. An extension to the airport would have had to deal with these two issues, not to mention finding space there for the buses to lay over and more buses and drivers to cover the inevitable extra time that such a extension would require.

As I understand it, the 27B and the 4 ran empty to and from the garage so culling it won't affect that many passengers. Given that the 27B was to have been absorbed into the 79 as part of Network Direct, it's lucky that the route is still there at all.

Those are all issues that need to be tackled.

It's time to start thinking outside the box.

Virtually every airport I have visited has a network of local bus services in addition to the service to/from the city centre.

Connectivity to/from the airport and most of North Dublin using public transport is shockingly bad.

It's utterly ludicrous that the only public transport serving it is the 16 and 41 along the Swords Road corridor and the 102 to Malahide and Sutton.

And also daft to be charging PSO operators to serve the Airport.

The NTA, DAA, DfT and bus companies need to start serving the airport with a decent public transport service.

Losty Dublin

lxflyer wrote: »

Those are all issues that need to be tackled.

It's time to start thinking outside the box.

Virtually every airport I have visited has a network of local bus services in addition to the service to/from the city centre.

Connectivity to/from the airport and most of North Dublin using public transport is shockingly bad.

It's utterly ludicrous that the only public transport serving it is the 16 and 41 along the Swords Road corridor and the 102 to Malahide and Sutton.

And also daft to be charging PSO operators to serve the Airport.

The NTA, DAA, DfT and bus companies need to start serving the airport with a decent public transport service.

I agree with you; the public transport links into and out of the airport need to be looked at and worked on, and especially for PSO service routes. They have improved in recent years but almost exclusively for the long distance bus services over the urban ones. A layover zone for buses needs to be provided along with an expansion of a network of key routes over and across the city. The 757 is welcome but it's of little use to those with an odd numbered postcode.

LXFlyer

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I agree with you; the public transport links into and out of the airport need to be looked at and worked on, and especially for PSO service routes. They have improved in recent years but almost exclusively for the long distance bus services over the urban ones. A layover zone for buses needs to be provided along with an expansion of a network of key routes over and across the city. The 757 is welcome but it's of little use to those with an odd numbered postcode.

Which is why not extending the 27b to the airport and retaining the connection to the Swords Road and Northwood from the Malahide Road is in my view a mistake.

Wanderer41

Will the new 27B still serve Beaumont Hospital from Heuston/Eden Quay? What about from Beaumont Hospital into town? I've seen some places say it's stopping the link but I'm not sure if that's from the Harristown direction.

Losty Dublin

Wanderer41 wrote: »

Will the new 27B still serve Beaumont Hospital from Heuston/Eden Quay? What about from Beaumont Hospital into town? I've seen some places say it's stopping the link but I'm not sure if that's from the Harristown direction.

The proposed timetable shows some departures that are marked as not serving the hospital; make what you will of that.

Wanderer41

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The proposed timetable shows some departures that are marked as not serving the hospital; make what you will of that.

I think some buses didn't serve the hospital before the change, but I'm not sure of the new timetable as it doesn't specify. The map doesn't work either. I contacted DB but they said to keep an eye on social media. It also doesn't mention the hospital from Heuston to Oscar Traynor Road.

LXFlyer

Wanderer41 wrote: »

Will the new 27B still serve Beaumont Hospital from Heuston/Eden Quay? What about from Beaumont Hospital into town? I've seen some places say it's stopping the link but I'm not sure if that's from the Harristown direction.

The route the bus takes between Oscar Traynor Road and the city centre is not changing, so yes it will still serve Beaumont Hospital (except for early morning inbound buses as at present).

Wanderer41

lxflyer wrote: »

The route the bus takes between Oscar Traynor Road and the city centre is not changing, so yes it will still serve Beaumont Hospital (except for early morning inbound buses as at present).

Thanks! I might be using the 27B depending on where I move to so this is good news to hear

StreetLight

The notice on the DB site has been updated to state that the 27B extension has been temporarily suspended.

AlekSmart

StreetLight wrote: »

The notice on the DB site has been updated to state that the 27B extension has been temporarily suspended.

Looks like the Company is,yet again,caught between a rock n a hard place.

The undoubted significant increase in all day patronage between Dublin North Central and Heuston Station,was contrasted with the....somewhat lower levels of patronage between Oscar Traynor and Harristown...thus,with the finite amount of vehicles and staff available,the realignment focused on the side offering the most cost/benefit returns.

There is siginficant spare capacity to be found on that final OTR/HT stretch,which would be well utilized on the CC/Heuston leg.

One other potential benefit apparently being ignored by the "Campaigners" is a somewhat obvious benefit of a direct Public Transport link between Irelands busiest Railway Station and one of Irelands largest Public Hospitals,but maybe that's not so important in parochial terms ?

The worst possible,yet most likely outcome here,will be an "x amount of peak-time journeys serving Harristown" type of thing which will skew the rostering and vehicle allocation,but will pacify the naysayers at the same time ?

dfx-

why not just extend the 27B as it is and apply an appropriate running time to accommodate it...

why bother with getting into these disputes with locals, surely Heuston would be worth it..

Stevek101

Airport to Heuston was the original plan that'd keep everyone happy?

LXFlyer

Airport to Heuston will require a higher PVR (Peak Vehicle Requirement).

I imagine Oscar-Traynor Rd to Heuston could be done with the current PVR.

Are there buses and drivers available?

I would much prefer Heuston-Airport as I've already posted, but resourcing it is an issue.

dfx-

there's certainly buses in storage for the Summer. AV256 was poking out of Donnybrook Garage during the week, off duty for the Summer/ready to be sold.

StreetLight

Well, there are some extra buses available from tomorrow as the Luas shuttle service is ending.

LXFlyer

dfx- wrote: »

there's certainly buses in storage for the Summer. AV256 was poking out of Donnybrook Garage during the week, off duty for the Summer/ready to be sold.

StreetLight wrote: »

Well, there are some extra buses available from tomorrow as the Luas shuttle service is ending.

Hang on - there is clearly a plan for the new deliveries in terms of what they're going to operate - does that just get abandoned? They already have them allocated to individual garages.

You can't simply just use the buses that are in storage for the summer as they will be needed once the schools and colleges come back.

Using the LUAS buses isn't necessarily feasible either - they were facilitated by the new deliveries, and are due for withdrawal. Would DB have the drivers available either once the schools are back?

It's unfortunately not that simple!

The NTA would also have to pay for it!

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

Hang on - there is clearly a plan for the new deliveries in terms of what they're going to operate - does that just get abandoned? They already have them allocated to individual garages.

The NTA would also have to pay for it!

The nub of the matter.....all things are possible...given the resources !

In the case of the 27B from Airport to Railway Station,I'd suggest 2 additional buses,with perhaps 5 additional drivers over a 17 hour operational day.

Interesting also,in that nobody appears to have involved the NTA itself in the process ?

dfx-

lxflyer wrote: »

Hang on - there is clearly a plan for the new deliveries in terms of what they're going to operate - does that just get abandoned? They already have them allocated to individual garages.

You can't simply just use the buses that are in storage for the summer as they will be needed once the schools and colleges come back.

Using the LUAS buses isn't necessarily feasible either - they were facilitated by the new deliveries, and are due for withdrawal. Would DB have the drivers available either once the schools are back?

It's unfortunately not that simple!

The NTA would also have to pay for it!

The Luas buses were on-loan AXs, from Donnybrook (AX464-467) and Harristown AXs (AX451-455), they're not being withdrawn.

StreetLight

It's high time the NTA stopped being just bean-counters and woke up to the fact that additional resources are overdue. The bus-travelling public are being routinely discommoded, especially at peak times, by buses quickly filling to capacity.

Dublin Bus shouldn't have announced the changes until they were 100% sure they could sustain the new service.

LXFlyer

dfx- wrote: »

The Luas buses were on-loan AXs, from Donnybrook (AX464-467) and Harristown AXs (AX451-455), they're not being withdrawn.

They were facilitated by other buses that are being withdrawn.

LXFlyer

StreetLight wrote: »

It's high time the NTA stopped being just bean-counters and woke up to the fact that additional resources are overdue. The bus-travelling public are being routinely discommoded, especially at peak times, by buses quickly filling to capacity.

Dublin Bus shouldn't have announced the changes until they were 100% sure they could sustain the new service.

Well unfortunately, like it or not, someone has to find the money to operate expanded services - that comes from the Department of Transport.

Or do you think that the NTA has a bottomless pit of money?

New and expanded services need money, drivers and buses - they can't suddenly all appear by magic.

None of us know the reason why this service has been deferred - we will have to wait and see. In the world of transport, last minute changes tend to be par for the course.

StreetLight

lxflyer wrote: »

Well unfortunately, like it or not, someone has to find the money to operate expanded services - that comes from the Department of Transport.

Or do you think that the NTA has a bottomless pit of money?

New and expanded services need money, drivers and buses - they can't suddenly all appear by magic.

None of us know the reason why this service has been deferred - we will have to wait and see. In the world of transport, last minute changes tend to be par for the course.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Unfortunately, I don't sense much of the former from those who control the purse strings.

People are still being left standing at stops. Once they decide to abandon being a bus customer and switch to a car, it may be difficult to win them back.

Dublin Bus obviously have resources available in trying to recruit new drivers, but this has been going on for the past couple of years and yet they are still short-staffed.

dfx-

Has the DOT/NTA refused to fund any proposal to extend a route yet? I cant think of any. Especially if it's a connection between the airport, Beaumont, Connolly and Heuston, surely that'd be a no-brainer...

LXFlyer

To be fair the DB PSO fleet has expanded over recent years once again, and extra services added across the network.

But again, these new services are dependent upon both buses and drivers being available to deliver them. That in turn requires the NTA to increase the PSO funding using the funds given to them by central government. That unfortunately is never something that happens quickly.

Serving the airport also has additional costs - the DAA will charge Dublin Bus for the use of the bus stop faciilities.

Let's be clear - I want the 27b to go to the airport, but it's not a simple decision that can be made without having the resources to do it.

Whether the NTA have refused funding for a proposal would require an FOI request - those sort of things tend not to be in the public domain.

joegriffinjnr

Changes have been suspended.. and rightly so.

Its a no brainer. extend 27B to Airport... problem solved. Myself and local residents complained and were listened to. Fair enough, extension to Heuston station is great but loosing the Swords Rd connections was not.

If the extension to the Airport needs extra drivers fair enough, but for heavens sake it can be solved.

As I have said before, a hell of a lot of Airport staff (myself included) would hugely benefit from the 27B to to the Airport. It would also provide a one bus route from Coolock/Artane/Malahide Rd/Fairview etc.

I need an outside opinion though, am I just been selfish or am I making sense?

AlekSmart

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

Changes have been suspended.. and rightly so.

Its a no brainer. extend 27B to Airport... problem solved. Myself and local residents complained and were listened to. Fair enough, extension to Heuston station is great but loosing the Swords Rd connections was not.

If the extension to the Airport needs extra drivers fair enough, but for heavens sake it can be solved.

As I have said before, a hell of a lot of Airport staff (myself included) would hugely benefit from the 27B to to the Airport. It would also provide a one bus route from Coolock/Artane/Malahide Rd/Fairview etc.

I need an outside opinion though, am I just been selfish or am I making sense?

Very sensible indeed,however,as lxflyer sez...show me the money to fund the new alignment,as it will require extra resources to maintain an Airport-Heuston service.

As it is a PSO route,then these extra resources must come from the NTA.

LXFlyer

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

Changes have been suspended.. and rightly so.

Its a no brainer. extend 27B to Airport... problem solved. Myself and local residents complained and were listened to. Fair enough, extension to Heuston station is great but loosing the Swords Rd connections was not.

If the extension to the Airport needs extra drivers fair enough, but for heavens sake it can be solved.

As I have said before, a hell of a lot of Airport staff (myself included) would hugely benefit from the 27B to to the Airport. It would also provide a one bus route from Coolock/Artane/Malahide Rd/Fairview etc.

I need an outside opinion though, am I just been selfish or am I making sense?

As I've said many times here there should be a full network of local PSO services between the airport and north Dublin suburbs.

At a minimum the 27b and 140 should be extended, and possibly the 4 as well.

thomasj

joegriffinjnr wrote:

Its a no brainer. extend 27B to Airport... problem solved. Myself and local residents complained and were listened to. Fair enough, extension to Heuston station is great but loosing the Swords Rd connections was not.

I can't see the problem as long as NTA don't get into their heads that the 27b might drive customers away from the 747.

Someone needs to drill into the NTAs heads that this area urgently needs looking at. Maybe time to look at the 220 extension to the airport again.