Problems at work / bullying

Hennesm

The managing partner at a firm I work for has taken a sudden dislike to me. She has emptied my filing cabinets and gone through my drawers and emails ( after a few days leave )
I deal with the accounts and she has phoned suppliers and told them not to take orders from me . Our balance arose from an order her pa made for a bulk order of paper .

She has brought her niece in to go through my files
She has told me I have to put everything in writing
She will not speak to me unless to shout in public about issues that are not my fault but the fault is Implied
She has encouraged others not to talk to me
The list goes on..
A junior partner has acknowledged she has an issue with me and does this from time to time . It's either permenant ( people leave ) or she moves on after a couple of weeks . I am recovering from a neurological spinal condition and a less physically able than the last time she did this to me.
I need advice . It's a small firm , she is the managing partner and her husband is a partner . What can I do before I go mad. I cannot speak to her as she will not speak to me nor wil she reply to emails.
Thanks

moc moc a moc

Speak to a lawyer.

Stheno

Again see legal advice.

dev100

Document everything absolutely every price of contact with her / dates times and info on incident .It will stand to you if it goes legal

Hennesm

Possibly should have mentioned she is a lawyer and it's a small town ! ��

Canadel

Hennesm wrote: »

Possibly should have mentioned she is a lawyer and it's a small town ! ��

She sounds like a professional super bitch.

Find another solicitor in another town if you have to. Document everything as had been said. Is there any point in asking if speaking to her privately would perhaps allow you both to clear the air and result in a mutually beneficial solution?

allibastor

Hennesm wrote: »

Possibly should have mentioned she is a lawyer and it's a small town ! ��

Should have.

The legal profession tend not to try and fight with others.

I would find a good employment legal professional and seek advice. In general it would sound like you have a good case, but had you done anything to garner this attention.

You may need to be completely honest in this, if she FEELS you have done something she may feel justified.

But again, document everything, copy emails and so on to a personnel hard drive and take records of emails and so on sent to suppliers. if sounds like she is a bully and knows that he position and her husbands would scare people off.

davo10

allibastor wrote: »

Should have.

The legal profession tend not to try and fight with others.

I would find a good employment legal professional and seek advice. In general it would sound like you have a good case, but had you done anything to garner this attention.

You may need to be completely honest in this, if she FEELS you have done something she may feel justified.

But again, document everything, copy emails and so on to a personnel hard drive and take records of emails and so on sent to suppliers. if sounds like she is a bully and knows that he position and her husbands would scare people off.

Bad advice, you cannot copy work related emails/records to a personal hard drive, they are the property of the employer and do not belong to the op. This would be especially frought in a legal office where there are bound to be strict rules regarding electronic information.

Finding a lawyer to begin proceedings against another will be a challenge and given the "closed" nature of the industry, I doubt the op will be able to rely on collegues to support any action taken.

Op, you would be better served engaging an independent HR consultant who specialises in disputes, Google and you will find loads, they tend to know more about work related disputes than the average lawyer, there will not be a conflict of interest and they will be less expensive.

Mrs OBumble

OP, realistically you need to find a new job.

Mediation may resolve the issue - or it may not if she really is just a bitch for the hell of it.

You may get come cash from legal proceedings or an out-of-court settlement against your current employer. Or you may not: as mentioned they will be difficult to take, and even if you are awarded compensation actually getting the cash can be challenging. And because it's a small town, your reputation as someone who sues your employer will travel quickly.

I know it's dreadfully unfair, and why should you have to leave etc ... all very correct, legal moral arguments. But they don't fix your problem.

The Sidewards Man

The only winner here will be whatever legal expert you employ. Time to move on op, life is too short to be working for tools.

allibastor

davo10 wrote: »

Bad advice, you cannot copy work related emails/records to a personal hard drive, they are the property of the employer and do not belong to the op. This would be especially frought in a legal office where there are bound to be strict rules regarding electronic information.

Finding a lawyer to begin proceedings against another will be a challenge and given the "closed" nature of the industry, I doubt the op will be able to rely on collegues to support any action taken.

Op, you would be better served engaging an independent HR consultant who specialises in disputes, Google and you will find loads, they tend to know more about work related disputes than the average lawyer, there will not be a conflict of interest and they will be less expensive.

If the email relate to you and can be used as evidence in court ??

How does anyone prove workplace bullying if not by saving information.

davo10

allibastor wrote: »

If the email relate to you and can be used as evidence in court ??

How does anyone prove workplace bullying if not by saving information.

You cannot legally copy confidential information, you can however keep notes of any mistreatment. If the op is caught copying privilaged/private emails/orders/information related to her employer he/she will be in bigger trouble, no legal firm would ever employ her again.

No court would ever accept them into evidence as they were private and copied/removed without permission.

allibastor

davo10 wrote: »

You cannot legally copy confidential information, you can however keep notes of any mistreatment. If the op is caught copying privilaged/private emails/orders/information related to her employer he/she will be in bigger trouble, no legal firm would ever employ her again.

No court would ever accept them into evidence as they were private and copied/removed without permission.

Surely keeping notes then just amounts to my word versus you word?

Misguided1

Set out your concerns in an email, giving dates and examples of the issues with which you have taken exception, and send it to her. She will most likely not respond by the sounds of things but then, in the event that your working there becomes unsustainable, you can demonstrate that you have tried to resolve the issues through the appropriate channels.

davo10

allibastor wrote: »

Surely keeping notes then just amounts to my word versus you word?

Yip, but you turn up at an tribunal with copies of private information and it will be a very short hearing.

Hennesm

Thank you all for your advice . I realise I need to find a new job as a long term solution . I'm just trying to find a short term solution so that I can cope . Basically I need the job and can't jeopardise my family finances until I find one .
I honestly do not know what I have done . I work extra hours without pay . Do things on days off , am paid far less than anyone else ( I get Fis so wages were reduced ) . I think it's just her way and always has been . I have applied for a number of jobs in the last few weeks and would do any job to get out of there .
Thanks for trying to help

dar100

davo10 wrote: »

You cannot legally copy confidential information, you can however keep notes of any mistreatment. If the op is caught copying privilaged/private emails/orders/information related to her employer he/she will be in bigger trouble, no legal firm would ever employ her again.

No court would ever accept them into evidence as they were private and copied/removed without permission.

So I've evidence of someone committing a crime which was emailed to me on a work email, that can't be used as evidence in a court case?

Mrs OBumble

Hennesm wrote: »

Thank you all for your advice . I realise I need to find a new job as a long term solution . I'm just trying to find a short term solution so that I can cope . Basically I need the job and can't jeopardise my family finances until I find one .
I honestly do not know what I have done . I work extra hours without pay . Do things on days off , am paid far less than anyone else ( I get Fis so wages were reduced ) . I think it's just her way and always has been . I have applied for a number of jobs in the last few weeks and would do any job to get out of there .
Thanks for trying to help

Ok - so you just have to keep your behaviour professional, no matter what **** she pulls. Just keep thinking to yourself "I'm better than this", "I'm worth more than that" etc. Come back here for a top-up if necessary!

Remove all personal belongings from the office, except for what is in your purse - and that take with you whenever you leave.

Do take notes about her behavoiur - although you're unlikely to be able to use them, it may be possible - and it will help you to keep her behaviour in perspective.

Good luck.

Hennesm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ok - so you just have to keep your behaviour professional, no matter what **** she pulls. Just keep thinking to yourself "I'm better than this", "I'm worth more than that" etc. Come back here for a top-up if necessary!

Remove all personal belongings from the office, except for what is in your purse - and that take with you whenever you leave.

Do take notes about her behavoiur - although you're unlikely to be able to use them, it may be possible - and it will help you to keep her behaviour in perspective.

Good luck.

Thank you . I have started a diary and noted who was present ( more for my own sanity )
Head down and carry on it is . I may very well be back for a top up !

2RockMountain

Hennesm wrote: »

( I get Fis so wages were reduced )

Just curious as to what exactly this means? Do you mean to say that they found out you qualified for FIS and then reduced your wages?

Hennesm

2RockMountain wrote: »

Just curious as to what exactly this means? Do you mean to say that they found out you qualified for FIS and then reduced your wages?

Yep , about sums it up .

davo10

dar100 wrote: »

So I've evidence of someone committing a crime which was emailed to me on a work email, that can't be used as evidence in a court case?

Has the op's employer commited a crime by requesting an order be placed? I'm guessing it's not for a bag of heroin.

2RockMountain

Hennesm wrote: »

Yep , about sums it up .

If they reduced your wages without your agreement, they broke employment law.

Squatman

keep copies of everything, emails included. if it comes to the stage where you need to use it, your solicitor will advise what can and cannot be used. It looks like they are trying to replace you with family members. poor business practice. In the mean time, discuss pay talks, how you want an increase due to work load - secondly stop working overtime. It may help your case if you are let go in the future that you could say you asked for a raise, and were subsequently let go- might help/might not. but definitely evidence is king, better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it

davo10

Squatman wrote: »

keep copies of everything, emails included. if it comes to the stage where you need to use it, your solicitor will advise what can and cannot be used. It looks like they are trying to replace you with family members. poor business practice. In the mean time, discuss pay talks, how you want an increase due to work load - secondly stop working overtime. It may help your case if you are let go in the future that you could say you asked for a raise, and were subsequently let go- might help/might not. but definitely evidence is king, better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it

Bad advice again. The action of copying the emails and forwarding them/printing alone is the removal of private/confidential information and can be cause for disciplinary action. You cannot copy your employer's information.

Of all professions, solicitors are very sensitive about confidentiality, the op's contract likely states that electronic information cannot be copied or removed.

Hennesm

2RockMountain wrote: »

If they reduced your wages without your agreement, they broke employment law.

I realise that but small town and job needed. I have left myself in an awful position . There isn't a solicitor locally that would help me with that . My employer has also made it abundantly clear that she knows people and will destroy anyone who crosses her . Dramatic I know , but I have seen her cause some damage .
Anyway currently furiously job hunting .

2RockMountain

davo10 wrote: »

Bad advice again. The action of copying the emails and forwarding them/printing alone is the removal of private/confidential information and can be cause for disciplinary action. You cannot copy your employer's information.

Of all professions, solicitors are very sensitive about confidentiality, the op's contract likely states that electronic information cannot be copied or removed.

If the information copied relates solely to his employment, he is entitled to have a copy of it.

Hennesm wrote: »

I realise that but small town and job needed. I have left myself in an awful position . There isn't a solicitor locally that would help me with that . My employer has also made it abundantly clear that she knows people and will destroy anyone who crosses her . Dramatic I know , but I have seen her cause some damage .
Anyway currently furiously job hunting .

She's a bully, by the sounds of it. Get a new job and then you can have a go at her for cutting your wages if you fancy it.

davo10

2RockMountain wrote: »

If the information copied relates solely to his employment, he is entitled to have a copy of it.



She's a bully, by the sounds of it. Get a new job and then you can have a go at her for cutting your wages if you fancy it.

If it is personal and addressed to the op, she can copy it, but if it is correspondance between the solicitors office and a client or supplier, no, the op is not allowed to copy it as it is confidential.

wakka12

Id really advise getting a new job! Maybe you will get money but do you really want to stay in and make money for a place that treats you so unfairly ? And she may be the only malicious one but plenty of others must know about it and arent doing **** to try to help you! I just don't think you'll ever be happy there, the atmosphere will be extremely uncomfortable in this small office after all the legal shenanigans. Easier said than done but try for another job, I know its not easy but I would say any job would be more satisfying even if it meant a little less income!

Hennesm

wakka12 wrote: »

Id really advise getting a new job! Maybe you will get money but do you really want to stay in and make money for a place that treats you so unfairly ? And she may be the only malicious one but plenty of others must know about it and arent doing **** to try to help you! I just don't think you'll ever be happy there, the atmosphere will be extremely uncomfortable in this small office after all the legal shenanigans. Easier said than done but try for another job, I know its not easy but I would say any job would be more satisfying even if it meant a little less income!

I completely agree and am applying for everything . I know I can't stay there much longer ! Will end up on medication

Fakediamond

Also be careful of her bad mouthing you to others, including potential new employers which is a classic tactic of bullies. You won't get support from others in the job, who are just glad it's not them being targeted. Don't confide in anyone at work, she'll have her spies reporting back and just be very careful what you say to her and others.

Just get out as soon as you ca, yes it's admirable to fight the case, but it could destroy your mental and physical health in the process. If you can afford it, buy a discreet, pen recording device, although you technically cannot secretly record conversations, it's a great way to transcribe a record of the conversation when you get home. Don't ever leave the diary you're now keeping in the office, even when you go to lunch or the loo! She clearly has no problem going through your stuff, and I'd say that includes your personal handbag.

Check out bullyonline.org, set up by a man who was devastated by workplace bullying himself.

Good luck, my heart goes out to you.

Help!!!!

OP whereabouts are you based? Surely you can see a solicitor in another part of Ireland to take up your case. If this person is regularly like this with employees, do you know anyone who left because of her? Maybe they could act as a witness
If she has reduced your wages you have proof on your wage slips, don't know how she could explain that

Squatman

davo10 wrote: »

Bad advice again. The action of copying the emails and forwarding them/printing alone is the removal of private/confidential information and can be cause for disciplinary action. You cannot copy your employer's information.

Of all professions, solicitors are very sensitive about confidentiality, the op's contract likely states that electronic information cannot be copied or removed.

Hi DickDavo, i should have put in a disclaimer for the slow. *dont be seen copying any information, or keeping records*
who are you to advise what would help build a defense case? OP get all your ducks in a row and let your solicitor decide what can be used and what cant- (if it comes to it)

Help!!!!

Squatman wrote: »

Hi DickDavo, i should have put in a disclaimer for the slow. *dont be seen copying any information, or keeping records*
who are you to advise what would help build a defense case? OP get all your ducks in a row and let your solicitor decide what can be used and what cant- (if it comes to it)

Even if the OP gathered all the information & if asked why she was getting a solicitor involved she could show it to the other managing partners. Maybe the other managing partners wouldn't be happy to hear this sort of thing is going on because it can be detrimental to a business

davo10

Squatman wrote: »

Hi DickDavo, i should have put in a disclaimer for the slow. *dont be seen copying any information, or keeping records*
who are you to advise what would help build a defense case? OP get all your ducks in a row and let your solicitor decide what can be used and what cant- (if it comes to it)

I'm a reader/poster just like you, if the op wants definitive legal advice then she can pay a solicitor, but she posted it here so we are all entitled to give an opinion/advice. That's the way discussion forums work ya see.

Bevause they do not belong to the op and are confidential. That should be enough even for the slowest. But just in case you are sitting at the back of the room, offices/businesses with strict confidentiality obligations (like say a solicitor for example) tend to have very clear policies on the copying/removal of paper/electronic information. The emails/correspondance is sent from/addressed to the solicitor, it is their property and is confidential. Simples.

dar100

dar100 wrote: »

So I've evidence of someone committing a crime which was emailed to me on a work email, that can't be used as evidence in a court case?

I'm sure they can be used as evidence, they just have to be accessed in a proper manner. Copying them to a personal drive is not that.

Hennesm

Help!!!! wrote: »

OP whereabouts are you based? Surely you can see a solicitor in another part of Ireland to take up your case. If this person is regularly like this with employees, do you know anyone who left because of her? Maybe they could act as a witness
If she has reduced your wages you have proof on your wage slips, don't know how she could explain that

I'm in the west . Think I might get help in Dublin but will have gone insane long before that. She has done it before but I'm not sure they ould speak against her . They might , but they know it would effect the other people there they like .
I have proof re the wages .

Help!!!!

Hennesm wrote: »

I'm in the west . Think I might get help in Dublin but will have gone insane long before that. She has done it before but I'm not sure they ould speak against her . They might , but they know it would effect the other people there they like .
I have proof re the wages .

No harm in asking the former employees. Almost the same thing happened to my missus she got a settlement but she regrets not taking it all the way. Just be strong speak to a solicitor & see where you stand. Don't let this person get away with it again. Even if you gather all the evidence & you give it to another managing director

Hennesm

Just a little update . I spoke to the other two partners after a day of public abuse again yesterday . Explained that the stress was making me ill and I was harassed . They told me to leave it with them and today asked me how much notice I was giving ! Told them I wasn't giving notice but if they wished to terminate my employment in favour of their niece then I would require a notice to that effect etc . Repeatedly explained job is not the problem but the bullying is . Feel better for having said something and have applied for 3 jobs in the last two days . Thank you all for your advice .

Fakediamond

Good for you Hennesm! Does the company have a bullying policy (why is it not called anti-bullying policy!)? If so, you've taken the first steps in triggering that process, they'll have to be careful now!

Well done you!! 👍👏

Hennesm

Apparently , according to her husband , there is no definition of bullying . It's all about perception . That was my update today ! My response was if everyone's perception was the same then there was obviously truth in it , especially when it had been acknowledged by another partner . I'm informed I wil have a further update next week. In the meantime another job applied for , emails sent to the employment relations commission and a solicitor. I know it won't do much good, but it made me feel better !

Thoie

Hennesm wrote: »

Apparently , according to her husband , there is no definition of bullying . It's all about perception . That was my update today ! My response was if everyone's perception was the same then there was obviously truth in it , especially when it had been acknowledged by another partner . I'm informed I wil have a further update next week. In the meantime another job applied for , emails sent to the employment relations commission and a solicitor. I know it won't do much good, but it made me feel better !

Weasel words. Regardless of whether they want to define bullying or not, her recent behaviours are unreasonable, have made you feel very uncomfortable, and you have not seen her behave in that manner to anyone else in the office.

Make it clear that being shouted at is not acceptable in a professional environment. The fact that she has other people going through your work, and has removed some of your authority would suggest that she has an issue with how your work is being carried out - if that's the case then discussing the specific issues with you, giving you a chance to improve, and laying out a detailed list of how the employer is going to help you improve is important. You can not meet their expectations if you don't know what they are.

Email something along those lines in advance of your next meeting, and say you'd like to discuss those issues at the update next week.

Chin up! It's a crappy situation to be in, but even if it doesn't seem like it now, it will pass.

allibastor

Do you think any current or former employees will speak up.

God it really is a family business if uncles and husbands are there. I would suggest if an investigation goes ahead at least someone else will have to do it, unbiased and all

Squatman

Well done OP. Really inspirational to see that you've taken the bull by the horns. The worst possible thing that can happen now is that you are fired. if that happens you will see that it is not as bad as you expect. Kudos

Chuchote

What's FIS?

OP, I hope you get a new job soon. Be careful not to allow this experience to sour you and make you touchy and suspicious with later employers and colleagues.

2RockMountain

Chuchote wrote: »

What's FIS?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/family_income_supplement.html

Lux23

davo10 wrote: »

Bad advice, you cannot copy work related emails/records to a personal hard drive, they are the property of the employer and do not belong to the op. This would be especially frought in a legal office where there are bound to be strict rules regarding electronic information.

It's OK to accept and offer bribes though, perfectly legal because it is the way the world works.

BabySlam

The best thing for your health is to get out, with a new job if possible, but put a deadline on it and leave in the current year. Otherwise you will continue on - it may get better for a while then it will get worse again. I wonder could you tell them you are applying for a job that wants a reference submitted and could they give you one....interesting to see if they will.

Stop doing the overtime or anything not paid for.

I am sorry for you and wish you luck, you do not sound as if you contributed to the problems, but that does not mean the other person will back down. Is she trying to provoke you into leaving? Also make a note of the persons asking about your notice - that in itself is quite bullying.

kravmaga

Hennesm wrote: »

The managing partner at a firm I work for has taken a sudden dislike to me. She has emptied my filing cabinets and gone through my drawers and emails ( after a few days leave )
I deal with the accounts and she has phoned suppliers and told them not to take orders from me . Our balance arose from an order her pa made for a bulk order of paper .

She has brought her niece in to go through my files
She has told me I have to put everything in writing
She will not speak to me unless to shout in public about issues that are not my fault but the fault is Implied
She has encouraged others not to talk to me
The list goes on..
A junior partner has acknowledged she has an issue with me and does this from time to time . It's either permanent ( people leave ) or she moves on after a couple of weeks . I am recovering from a neurological spinal condition and a less physically able than the last time she did this to me.
I need advice . It's a small firm , she is the managing partner and her husband is a partner . What can I do before I go mad. I cannot speak to her as she will not speak to me nor will she reply to emails.
Thanks

This is whats called Mobbing behaviour, she is now using and influencing other people to ignore/ blank you.

Call her out on her Bullying behaviour to her face, ask her to desist and call an Employment Law Solicitor for advice.

Start logging everything in a diary and keep it at home, you need all the evidence if it goes to a Tribunal.

Or go Constructive dismissal route

davo10

Lux23 wrote: »

It's OK to accept and offer bribes though, perfectly legal because it is the way the world works.

That is quite a leap to associate the two scenarios, particularly in relation to this thread. Has the op been bribed or paid a bribe? Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread.

Chuchote

If the company cut your wages in response to your getting Family Income Supplement, is that legal?