Rumen Fluke

tanko

Have one three year old cow whose dung was thin and didn't improve after being treated for fluke and worms. I sent off a sample and it came back showing high rumen fluke levels.
None of the other cows in her group or in other groups on the farm are like this.
Is it possible that she is the only animal with rumen fluke or will the others have it also?
I'm going to take dung samples from other cows to get them tested to see where i stand.

whelan2

tanko wrote: »

Have one three year old cow whose dung was thin and didn't improve after being treated for fluke and worms. I sent off a sample and it came back showing high rumen fluke levels.
None of the other cows in her group or in other groups on the farm are like this.
Is it possible that she is the only animal with rumen fluke or will the others have it also?
I'm going to take dung samples from other cows to get them tested to see where i stand.

Might be worth testing her for johnes as well

Never wrestle with pigs

Done everything last year and I wasn't happy with the bulls dung a few weeks after. Got it tested and it came back with small amount of rumen fluke. Tested the cows and they were fine. Done him with zanil and he cleared up fine.

Remembered after I left him out in a field by himself for a few weeks while the cows were in. He might have picked it up then. Was she sick or isolated from the main herd at any stage for any reason?

tanko

No, she wasn't sick at any stage and wasn't separated from the others. I've never treated any animals for rumen fluke here.
I think I'll get a few more tested for peace of mind.

Lurgee

Us vets don't know as much about rumen fluke as we would like to but I think some work is being done on it in Scotland at the minute.
My advice to my clients is that if an individual sick cow shows rumen fluke in the absence of other conditions (like Johnes, liver fluke, salmonella, upset stomach etc), treat her for it.
I don't advise doing the rest of the cows at that time without reason, but I will suggest using Levafas Diamond in the next routine liver fluke treatment for the herd if that suits the individual situation.

Bottom line: don't be throwing wormers around without good reason lads, we are going to wreck ourselves with parasite resistance in the future if we don't all try to be a bit more responsible!

Hope the cow dries up OP!

Count Mondego

Is there any laboratories that you can send a sample to directly, rather than going through a vet? Could be waiting three weeks for a sample result in the past.

Base price

Count Mondego wrote: »

Is there any laboratories that you can send a sample to directly, rather than going through a vet? Could be waiting three weeks for a sample result in the past.

We get them booked through the vet but I deliver them directly to the lab, Oldcastle Labs. They have the info normally the next day or the day after and advise our vet.

Count Mondego

Will call them tomorrow. Cheers BP.

RobinBanks

Dung samples results showed high burden of rumen fluke in my cows. They will start calving from the end of Jan.

Would Zanil be ok for cows this close to calving?

Buford T. Justice XIX

RobinBanks wrote: »

Dung samples results showed high burden of rumen fluke in my cows. They will start calving from the end of Jan.

Would Zanil be ok for cows this close to calving?

It would be ok to use but bear in mind the milk withdrawl is 3 days and the beef withdrawl is 28 days in case you're thinking of selling or killing them in the meantime.

greysides

As you've had samples taken, I assume you've considered these things and discussed the situation with your vet so this is just for information's sake.

An excerpt from the AHI information leaflet on Rumen Fluke:

How can I control Rumen Fluke in my herd?
1. REDUCE EXPOSURE
Reduce the possibility of exposure to rumen fluke larvae on pasture.
Restricting access to fields, or parts of fields, which are or have been wet or water logged will reduce exposure to contaminated herbage. The fencing-off of drains, ponds and watercourses should also reduce exposure.

2.TREATMENT
Flukicidal drugs.
Most of the drugs that control liver fluke DO NOT kill rumen fluke. Although not specifically licensed in Ireland for the
treatment of rumen fluke, it has been reported in the scientific literature that oxyclozanide can kill both mature and
immature stages of this parasite. The dosages and treatment frequency described in the literature for oxyclozanide
against rumen fluke differ from those recommended for liver fluke control and expert advice on this should be sought.
Oxyclozanide is not effective against immature liver fluke, but it will kill immature rumen fluke. After treatment, cattle
may occasionally show transient scouring and lack of appetite and dairy animals may have decreased milk yield.

Current veterinary advice to prevent the development of resistance is to avoid the over-use of any flukicide. Routine treatment for rumen fluke is rarely justified except on farms where severe clinical disease has been confirmed in the past. Even in these cases, treatment should only be administered when clinical disease has been diagnosed as this drug has no persistent effect against rumen fluke.
Close monitoring is essential on farm, and for the best advice on treatment and control options, you should consult with your own veterinary practitioner.

How should I approach the treatment of rumen fluke on my farm?

It is important to remember that the detection of rumen fluke eggs in faecal samples, or the detection of the adults
in small numbers in the rumen is not in itself a reason to institute specific control measures, as light infections
appear to have no effect on animal health or productivity. The routine implementation of a preventive dosing regime
for rumen fluke is rarely justified, except on farms where severe disease and losses have been confirmed in the past.
Because of the rarity of severe outbreaks, such a control scheme would be best designed and tailored for the specific farm
in question, following consultation with your own veterinary practitioner. Such a scheme would aim to use treatment
in a strategic manner to reduce pasture contamination, in association with other measures mentioned previously.

Apart from the economic costs that arise from unnecessary use of any anti-parasitic drug, it is especially important to treat rumen fluke
sensibly and sparingly, given that there is only one effective compound (oxyclozanide). The development of oxyclozanide-resistant strains of
rumen fluke must be avoided and there is a heightened risk of resistance if a single compound like oxyclozanide is used indiscriminately over
several years. It is important that management of rumen fluke is undertaken as part of a comprehensive parasite control programme that will control liver fluke, gut worms and lungworm (hoose) as well as rumen fluke.

RobinBanks

greysides wrote: »

As you've had samples taken, I assume you've considered these things and discussed the situation with your vet:

I haven't discussed with vet. The receptionist rang me and gave me the results. I will ring on Monday to see what's best to dose with but I prob won't get talking to vet. Like most vets he's to busy to talk

RobinBanks

RobinBanks wrote: »

I haven't discussed with vet. The receptionist rang me and gave me the results. I will ring on Monday to see what's best to dose with but I prob won't get talking to vet. Like most vets he's to busy to talk

I find the opinions on here as good if not better than vets so that why I asked if ok to use zanil. I was looking for first hand information not theoretical scientific advice.

greysides

Are your cows in worse condition than you'd expect? Are some scoury and some loose? Have you suffered from RF before?
If the answer to all these is 'no' then there would seem little point in dosing.

The non-pathogenic adults produce the eggs while pathogenic larval stages cause the problems. All your RF could be adult at this stage if housed a couple of months.

tanko

Are you saying that Rumen Fluke is bad for some cows and not for others?
If a cow has rumen fluke in her dung but isnt scouring and is thriving, can she rid herself of it wirhout being treated for it?

greysides

Tanko, take another look at the blue text in post # 11.

Not so much one cow in the herd versus another, more, one herd compared to another. The egg laying adults unless present in absolutely massive numbers, don't cause a recognisable problem. Its the juvenile stages in the small intestine that do but these, being juvenile, aren't laying eggs, so faecal egg counts can't be used to directly infer what problemx the RF are causing. The FEC can only guide us as to the number of adults present, and these are unlikely to be causing problems and therefore not require treatment.
I don't know if cattle can get rid of RF themselves. I expect the immune system would resist them as it does other parasites.
The treatment dosage rates for RF are higher than the recommended dosage rates for Liver fluke with both Zanil and Levafas Diamond. At the higher RF rates scouring will almost certainly be seen. If cows close to calving don't need treatment it would be nice to avoid having to dose them.
On the other hand, if they need it they will benefit from it. The trick is determining which situation is present. Hence the questions.

greysides

RobinBanks wrote: »

I find the opinions on here as good if not better than vets so that why I asked if ok to use zanil. I was looking for first hand information not theoretical scientific advice.

Opinions sre always good. There's been a few RF threads so try a forum search.

RobinBanks

greysides wrote: »

Are your cows in worse condition than you'd expect? Are some scoury and some loose? Have you suffered from RF before?
If the answer to all these is 'no' then there would seem little point in dosing.

The non-pathogenic adults produce the eggs while pathogenic larval stages cause the problems. All your RF could be adult at this stage if housed a couple of months.

That's interesting. I always assumed that cows wit scoury dung would be the ones with RF but the results showed that some of the cows with dry dung were infected and they are in good condition.

RobinBanks

Dozed all the cows with 105ml of Zanil tonight. Thank god for self locking barriers. I flew threw them

I was told to repeat the doze in 3 days time. What's the reason for that I wonder?

tanko

Did your vet say that? Surely one dose is enough.

Westernrock

RobinBanks wrote: »

Dozed all the cows with 105ml of Zanil tonight. Thank god for self locking barriers. I flew threw them

I was told to repeat the doze in 3 days time. What's the reason for that I wonder?

First dose kills ~=86%
Second dose kills ~= 86% of the remaining fluke leaving you with around 98% kill in total. But that would be the theoretical scientific advice😉
Your cows that were in good condition and thriving probably didn't need dosing atall so you would only need to do cows in poor condition or that we're scouring before the first dose with the second dose. They will all scour for a few days after dosing now.

tellmeabit

I would have thought it was be dose again in 6 weeks or so not 3 days with the life cycle? Zanil only covers adult right?

greysides

tellmeabit wrote: »

I would have thought it was be dose again in 6 weeks or so not 3 days with the life cycle? Zanil only covers adult right?

Liver fluke, yes. Rumen fluke, adults and juveniles.

RobinBanks

When dozing for fluke do I need to have cows fasted before and after dosing?

I got dung tested off a cow that I had dozed with Zanil few months ago and she tested positive for rumen fluke again. I dosed her 3 days apart as per instructions but didn't have them fasted.

Cow is thin and very scoury so first dose had no effect.

whelan2

RobinBanks wrote: »

When dozing for fluke do I need to have cows fasted before and after dosing?

I got dung tested off a cow that I had dozed with Zanil few months ago and she tested positive for rumen fluke again. I dosed her 3 days apart as per instructions but didn't have them fasted.

Cow is thin and very scoury so first dose had no effect.

What age is the cow? maybe johnes test her too

RobinBanks

whelan2 wrote: »

What age is the cow? maybe johnes test her too

Second calver. Funny thing is she was perfect last winter. Started getting thin over the winter. At first I thought she might be having twins.

Vet said shetested positive for rumen fluke eggs. He said try giving her another dose of Zanil. He gave me sulpha powders for her aswell

charolais0153

RobinBanks wrote: »

Second calver. Funny thing is she was perfect last winter. Started getting thin over the winter. At first I thought she might be having twins.

Vet said shetested positive for rumen fluke eggs. He said try giving her another dose of Zanil. He gave me sulpha powders for her aswell

Funny because we had a 2nd calver that i thought had fluke or worms. She was thin and dung was soft. In the end i was surprised because she did have twins. Sort of annoying because we could of fed her on a bit before calving but alls well that ends well

timmiekp

How much does it cost to do dung samples. Have 8 bulls is it worth testing them individually or 1 sample for the group.