Newtownsandes Co op

oji

Big problems there cash in bank dropping 1 million euro every 5 years trade debtors nearly as big as money in the bank questionable decision being made there ?

olm12

Such a shame as it had everything going for it 50 years ago.
How did the committee let this happen. Did they not question the manager's
decisions over the last half century. Who is answerable for the decline?

oji

I'm too young and don't be there that often but it seems to be going down hill with the last 10 years the yard seems very quiet there now it was a lot busier years ago

oji

There seems to be a lot of people working in the office there as well more than in the yard

olm12

with your calculations oji it looks like the co-op will be gone in five years or less... what a shame

Kerry bull

50 years asleep time to wake up now

Kerry bull

I hear their suppliers didn't get a thirteenth payment

Kerry bull

I hear their suppliers didn't get a thirteenth payment

oji

We're out of milk since my father died but I was given the shareholder s book of accounts I know nothing about 13nt payments but the accounts look dismal and very vague the chairman and committee have a lot to answer for I was given the books back to 09 some drop in money since 09 does anyone care if it closes r not where r the younger farmers have they any interest

olm12

no other work sector would take a drop like that in their wages.. maybe management could take a cut in their pay as it is the farmers after all that are keeping them there...

F15

olm12 wrote: »

no other work sector would take a drop like that in their wages.. maybe management could take a cut in their pay as it is the farmers after all that are keeping them there...

Is it true one staff member per every 6 suppliers?

Bar Pressure

I've been following the discussion on Newtownsandes,the thing I can't figure out is what are the board of management doing? You have a business that appears to be in decline,an elderly management team with little desire to drive the business forward and the whole thing is being facilitated by an indifferent board! A recipe for trouble!

oji

I've been researching this also today why r icos not involved r they not the governing body this side of north kerry west limerick need moyvane co op have they rules and regulations that have to be adhered to ?

Kerry bull

The board are told what to do
The young progressive farmers are being blocked from getting on the board

oji

Why ?where is the future in that ?

Kerry bull

I heard that all decisions are made by the manager of 50 years running the co op and he is supposed to have retired 3 years ago and is about 80now and is still telling the supposed manager and assistant manager what to do
He couldn't have any new ideas on how to grow the business
There's no future in that

Bar Pressure

I hope your wrong Kerry Bull 'cause any company board I've ever dealt with the buck finally comes to rest with board. Pleading ignorance won't protect you from company law if there's any misappropriation

liam7831

Its an interesting topic as Im from Kerry myself albeit not Moyvane. I wonder is it possible that all the below new users who are all coincidentally interested in this small Co-Op are the one person...
Oji
Olm12
Kerrybull
F15
Bar Pressure

Think so.... Your having a debate with yourself

Odelay

liam7831 wrote: »

Its an interesting topic as Im from Kerry myself albeit not Moyvane. I wonder is it possible that all the below new users who are all coincidentally interested in this small Co-Op are the one person...
Oji
Olm12
Kerrybull
F15
Bar Pressure

Think so.... Your having a debate with yourself

I was thinking the same:D

Jd04

Liam your wrong this is a very serious problem. Nobody wants to see any business close and if the committee are nodding dogs to the old management newtownsands co-op will be another business closed in the area

Avatar MIA

liam7831 wrote: »

Think so.... Your having a debate with yourself

A mod could likely tell.

liam7831

liam7831 wrote: »

Its an interesting topic as Im from Kerry myself albeit not Moyvane. I wonder is it possible that all the below new users who are all coincidentally interested in this small Co-Op are the one person...
Oji
Olm12
Kerrybull
F15
Bar Pressure

Think so.... Your having a debate with yourself

Add Jd04 to this list

olm12

liam7831 & odelay you obviously don't know what is going on in moyvane as the management of the co-op is causing a big split in the parish. there is more than one person involved in this discussion as there is 75% of the milk suppliers asking for this retired man to leave the premises. he retired three years ago and isn't on the payroll but still rules the roost

liam7831

olm12 wrote: »

liam7831 & odelay you obviously don't know what is going on in moyvane as the management of the co-op is causing a big split in the parish. there is more than one person involved in this discussion as there is 75% of the milk suppliers asking for this retired man to leave the premises. he retired three years ago and isn't on the payroll but still rules the roost

I don't underestimate the size of the problem and the repercussions of the business closing, i hope it can be sorted out. Just dont see it looks like half the parish opening up new accounts on Boards will help the situation

Avatar MIA

Bar Pressure wrote: »

I hope your wrong

Jd04 wrote: »

Liam your wrong

Hmmm

hp90

liam7831 after the agm two farmers were selected to go to the chairman of the co-op asking him to invite ICOS to mediate between the farmers and the management. ICOS are willing to come and help as they were at the agm and witnessed the agro for themselves. trouble is they would prefer to be invited and the co-op don't want them down as the board knows that will upset the way things have been running for the last half century. the board are choosing to ignore this group of agitated farmers and that is what has led to this discussion on boards.ie.
have to get heard somehow when the board won't talk . three times the chairman was approached since the agm and zero result.
this co-op will be gone in three years if something isn't done now.

liam7831

Drop The Dealer in the Famers journal a line, he may put a piece in the paper for ye get a bit of publicity.

dealer@farmersjournal.ie

www.farmersjournal.ie/dealer

hp90

thanks for that tip. looks like we might have to go down that route but god only knows what can of worms that will open.

Avatar MIA

hp90 wrote: »

but god only knows what can of worms that will open.

Er, isn't that exactly what you want?

oji

No liam sorry I'm a member with a few weeks

olm12

to contact the journal might be the only answer as the creamery board will have to sit up and take notice then. it would make a great story about this 80 year old man who refuses to leave the building even though he is retired for the past three years and no longer on the payroll. still occupies his same office and the present gm sharing a desk with a few more!

liam7831

oji wrote: »

No liam sorry I'm a member with a few weeks

Ok no probs, lets move on.

How many suppliers, shareholders etc have ye? What do the Co-op do with the milk? What milk price are ye getting?
Dont know much about Newtownsandes co-op tbh

I see an earlier article here from 2014,

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/mystery-surrounds-role-dairy-board-kerry-contracts/

hp90

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Er, isn't that exactly what you want?

yea i guess but this is a small parish and there will be a lot of red faces some of those involved had no choice but to go with what they were told by management as they 'owed him one'

Avatar MIA

hp90 wrote: »

yea i guess but this is a small parish and there will be a lot of red faces some of those involved had no choice but to go with what they were told by management as they 'owed him one'

You need to decide which is more important. The delicacies of local niceties or actually getting what you think is right/fair done.

Feint heart never won... back the ownership of one's co-op.

cute geoge

What in the hell are all the staff in the office looking at computers all day long ,i would love to know.They are literally glued to them and dont look left or right ,they are directly at the back of pay desk for all to see

oji

Liam I posted this on another thread it's since removed I was told today moyvane have 66/67 suppliers 40 are bulk rest have road tanks there are 18 on the commitee some are up to 80 years old there are seats there handed down from father to son some seat are filled by the same man for over 40 years and by the same family for 40 years you must be chosen to get on its next to impossible to win an election as committee management and there older dry shareholder friends block vote I don't know where there milk is sold

hp90

liam7831 to add to oji response some of the milk goes in the road 5 miles to kerry and more of the milk goes 60 miles up the road to north cork as the 'retired' manager has a good relationship with them in north cork
price is usually the same as kerry

Avatar MIA

hp90 wrote: »

liam7831 to add to oji response some of the milk goes in the road 5 miles to kerry and more of the milk goes 60 miles up the road to north cork as the 'retired' manager has a good relationship with them in north cork
price is usually the same as kerry

Would the Kerry customer take all the milk?

Water John

Not my part of the world. But the buck stops here with the Directors.
It's not just a question of being liable if their is impropriety. The question of personal liability for a Director of a coop extends beyond that. Each Director must satisfy themselves as to the reasonableness of the positions and decisions taken by the coop.
Directors here, could find themselves personnaly liable if it is obviously not run in the best interests of the owners, namely all the shareholders.

I'm not a big fan of big business but some of these small coops that seem to be totally subservient to a larger one, I find hard to understand. Glanbia have a few. At least this one seems to have a choice of suppliers.
Would they not just amalgamate with North Cork if they supply them.
They may have an advantage of not being tied into a long term MSA.

Water John

Ignorance is not taken as an excuse for a Director of a coop.
It was more often accepted for a Director of a private/public company before, less now.

anotherservant

Water John wrote: »

Not my part of the world. But the buck stops here with the Directors.
It's not just a question of being liable if their is impropriety. The question of personal liability for a Director of a coop extends beyond that. Each Director must satisfy themselves as to the reasonableness of the positions and decisions taken by the coop.
Directors here, could find themselves personnaly liable if it is obviously not run in the best interests of the owners, namely all the shareholders.

I'm not a big fan of big business but some of these small coops that seem to be totally subservient to a larger one, I find hard to understand. Glanbia have a few. At least this one seems to have a choice of suppliers.
Would they not just amalgamate with North Cork if they supply them.
They may have an advantage of not being tied into a long term MSA.

Unfortunately to my knowledge no committee member has any corporate compliance training received. So they are unaware of any person liabilities. Committee also consists of many non milk suppliers in addition to those retired/no longer farmin!
The quoted agriland.ie article previously mentioned a meeting forced by a substantial part of the nts milk supply pool lead to an additional 1cent a litre being added to the north cork msa for those who signed up... not much thanks was received!

Water John

The legal onus is on the Directors. I presume these are whom you are calling the committee. They are a Board with very specific legal responsibiliites in law.

It is they who must clarify the suppliers/shareholders position. The Secretary of a company or coop has specific obligations as to the register of shareholders, holding of meetings, including AGM and minutes of same.

If necessary, an EGM is called. The shareholders request one from the Secretary. It has to be a specific motion and requested by normally 10% of the shareholders. Obviously its a local community issue too in this case and one would make every effort to not end up with a divided and bitter situation.
But if necessary, the motion may be a vote of no confidence in the Board and management.

oji

Can there be a resolution found what has happened in other coops can icos help resolve this or is it an in house problem

Water John

Yes ICOS in theory should be able to give advice. Remember they are mainly funded by the large milk processors. May be some form of mediation could help move things forward. That is if both sides wish to move on and avoid open conflict.
Centre for Cooperative Studies UCC, Prof Michael Ward might be worth contacting. See link.
https://www.ucc.ie/en/ccs/people/

This is not an in house problem and needs external professional help. Otherwise it will get messy.

oji

Define open conflict ?

Water John

Ah you know, bitter divisions in a rural community can last for generations.
I would try to avoid if possible. On the other hand, things must be right. Keep your points professional not personal despite what may be said is a clear help.

I don't believe in happy clappy rural community utopia either.

oji

I hope they can sort it out

olm12

Water John wrote: »

Not my part of the world. But the buck stops here with the Directors.
It's not just a question of being liable if their is impropriety. The question of personal liability for a Director of a coop extends beyond that. Each Director must satisfy themselves as to the reasonableness of the positions and decisions taken by the coop.
Directors here, could find themselves personnaly liable if it is obviously not run in the best interests of the owners, namely all the shareholders.

I'm not a big fan of big business but some of these small coops that seem to be totally subservient to a larger one, I find hard to understand. Glanbia have a few. At least this one seems to have a choice of suppliers.
Would they not just amalgamate with North Cork if they supply them.
They may have an advantage of not being tied into a long term MSA.

water john it was discovered at the last agm that newtownsandes co-op have given a 'roll over loan' of €500k to north cork to buy a share in a dryer. as per your post does this mean the directors would be personnally liable if north cork go bust or can't pay back this loan even the accountants were very vague went questioned about this loan. north cork need five years notice if newtown want to call it in. should the directors/committee members who signed the agreement for this be worried?

hp90

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Would the Kerry customer take all the milk?

im sure they would and it would make a lot more sense all round look what transport is costing sending four trucks up there every day and then having a long wait to be unloaded because that plant is not a modern plant like the kerry one.

Water John

Well, the auditor should be able/obliged to clarify this issue at an AGM.
Does the auditor have concerns about it? That should be the question.

What are the conditions attached to this?
What % of the capital cost for North Cork plant is this? 25%?
What is the priority of this versus bank loans that NC have?
Is there a legal agreement as opposed to a gentleman's agreement?
Are NC obliged to take some supply from Newtown?
Are Newtown part owners of the plant? I presume not and have no claim on the plant.
Sorry for the questions. But this aspect throws up these.

HP you seem to have a clear bias as to what should happen. If you favour Kerry, thats fine. The lorry issue doesn't stand really. Arrabawn lorries are collecting from West Cork to Youghal and taking it up to Nenagh. I suspect to their Liquid Milk plant in Galway in the winter.

olm12

Water John wrote: »

Well, the auditor should be able/obliged to clarify this issue at an AGM.
Does the auditor have concerns about it? That should be the question.

What are the conditions attached to this?
What % of the capital cost for North Cork plant is this? 25%?
What is the priority of this versus bank loans that NC have?
Is there a legal agreement as opposed to a gentleman's agreement?
Are NC obliged to take some supply from Newtown?
Are Newtown part owners of the plant? I presume not and have no claim on the plant.
Sorry for the questions. But this aspect throws up these.

HP you seem to have a clear bias as to what should happen. If you favour Kerry, thats fine. The lorry issue doesn't stand really. Arrabawn lorries are collecting from West Cork to Youghal and taking it up to Nenagh. I suspect to their Liquid Milk plant in Galway in the winter.

water john im afraid i can't answer your questions. at the agm when any supplier tried to ask questions they were constantly harrassed and talked down by board members. this line of questioning seem to really rattle some board members and as i said the accountants were very vague. suppliers and shareholders are kept in the dark about everything that goes on even a few of the board deny they knew anything about it
maybe someone else out there can come back with answers but this is what we are up against
'something is rotten is this state of denmark'