New Bin Charges - Will you Pay More or Less

foggy_lad

Will you be paying more or less for your refuse collections when new Pay By weight charges are introduced?

Sleeper12

More.
We'll be paying over 500 Euro per year.

baggytiger

More. But not in the way I expected...

You'd think, wouldn't you, that a change from "per lift" to "per kg" shouldn't result in any change to the service charge, but would only affect the actual collection charges - some people would pay less and some would pay more, if the change was revenue-neutral.

I'm one of those who didn't put my bins out at every opportunity, but tried to wait till they were full, in order to make the most of the "per lift" basis. So I can understand how I might perhaps pay more in collection charges under the "per kg" basis.

But instead:

- My service charge (with City Bin Co) is increasing from €55 a year to €117 a year.
- My collection charges will actually decrease substantially, based on what I can calculate from my recent bills, though not by enough to offset the increase in service charge.

I'm sure that's not what the government intended when they introduced this legislation, and I hope Simon Coveney will make this clear to City Bin and the other waste companies when he meets them next week.

Alf Veedersane

We paid €285 this year for Thorntons. To stay at that level over the 12 months from July, our black bin will need to be at 18-19kg per fortnight to come in around the same level. We've a one year old so nappies still coming thick and fast.

I expect us to be paying €350-400 for the 12 months from July....so a significant increase

ted1

I'm on Killiney so we are already being ripped off. 65 euro a year, +3.20 a lift + 27.7C per kg.

LynnGrace

Already pay by weight with Citybin. Recycle everything possible etc.
Annual charge will be going up to €117, from €55 approx. Crazy stuff.

foggy_lad

Only a small number of votes in yet but 95% say they will have to pay more! That tallys with the ten minute liveline poll earlier today.

greasepalm

if it gets too expensive for many alternative sources of getting rid of rubbish will start to increase,if the green bin fees rise also recycling correctly might take a big hit,are we not good enough in good recycling responsibly and they want to screw us more.
did i hear the government keeping an eye on things.

bring back the incinerator for burning rubbish.:mad:

TheRealPONeill

When you now see an average €3 per week "service charge" and a broad consensus on ~ 30c/kg pay by weight among the "providers", you know this was a done deal in 2011.

emo72

cancelled my home waste. get rid of through work. this is a national disgrace.

KoolKid

Any truth in the stories that large companies and supermarkets etc are actually paid by the waste disposal companies to allow them to collect all the recyclable materials.
Now if that was to be introduced for domestic waste that would be the incentive needed to get people recycling properly.

BunkMoreland

How do I find out?

Alf Veedersane

BunkMoreland wrote: »

How do I find out?

Who are you with?

A lot of waste collection companies have a record of weights for the last while, probably on your online account.

You can look at your average black and brown bin weights, multiply the weights by the charges, add in standing charges and work out how much the annual cost is.

Ludo

So after getting access and averaging out the last three moths of data I worked out I will be paying roughly 27/28 euro a month for 5 people, which is less than the current 29.41 I pay them.

Calculation based on the lift weight data available for last three months on the Greenstar site..

Current charge: 29.41

Charges under new monthly standing charge and weights:
March : 27.56
April : 26.74
May : 28.31

Seems reasonable. What am I missing?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Without posting up the weights, other posters will not be able to help you.

It is probably best to work out your future charges based on 1 (or more) previous years of data, as it'll include seasonal fluctuations as well. Christmas etc.

Ludo wrote: »

So after getting access and averaging out the last three moths of data I worked out I will be paying roughly 27/28 euro a month for 5 people, which is less than the current 29.41 I pay them.

Calculation based on the lift weight data available for last three months on the Greenstar site..

Current charge: 29.41

Charges under new monthly standing charge and weights:
March : 27.56
April : 26.74
May : 28.31

Seems reasonable. What am I missing?

alexonhisown

Im with greyhound dublin and my waste charges will be at least double, maybe almost triple

Ludo

Byron Skinny Scalp wrote: »

Without posting up the weights, other posters will not be able to help you.

It is probably best to work out your future charges based on 1 (or more) previous years of data, as it'll include seasonal fluctuations as well. Christmas etc.

Christmas will definitely be an issue alright. Can't think of any others though..other than being away on holidays which would reduce it. Summer garden waste does not go in our bin anyway so that wont affect it. Once off things will be the issue I guess. I have a side gate to garden to break up and put in the bin now for example. That is quite heavy. Must get it in next bin :-)

Alf Veedersane

Ludo wrote: »

So after getting access and averaging out the last three moths of data I worked out I will be paying roughly 27/28 euro a month for 5 people, which is less than the current 29.41 I pay them.

Calculation based on the lift weight data available for last three months on the Greenstar site..

Current charge: 29.41

Charges under new monthly standing charge and weights:
March : 27.56
April : 26.74
May : 28.31

Seems reasonable. What am I missing?

The standing charge is €13 per month so you're saying that with 33c/kg for black bin and 20c/kg for brown bin, you'd only come to €14.56 for the general and organic waste generated across the month?

Fair play if that's true for a house of 5.

Ludo

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The standing charge is €13 per month so you're saying that with 33c/kg for black bin and 20c/kg for brown bin, you'd only come to €14.56 for the general and organic waste generated across the month?

Fair play if that's true for a house of 5.

I'm with Greenstar (Cork). Standing charge is 19.50. Compost (Brown) 14c/KG. Refuse (Black) 18c/KG.

Weights were:
March Compost: 32.5kg - Waste 19.5kg
April Compost: 39.5kg - Waste 9.5kg
May Compost: 34kg - Waste 22.5kg

foggy_lad

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The standing charge is €13 per month so you're saying that with 33c/kg for black bin and 20c/kg for brown bin, you'd only come to €14.56 for the general and organic waste generated across the month?

Fair play if that's true for a house of 5.

That would be a total monthly weight of about 40kg which some people can do if they take out all bottles jars and compost their food waste and have a wormery in the garden etc etc, Most people are not so Green and never will be!

Alf Veedersane

foggy_lad wrote: »

That would be a total monthly weight of about 40kg which some people can do if they take out all bottles jars and compost their food waste and have a wormery in the garden etc etc, Most people are not so Green and never will be!

I suppose it is. It just sounded low for 5 people and all credit to them if that's the case.

Gonna have to start hanging wet nappies out to dry and scooping the contents of dirty ones into brown bin....

Ludo

foggy_lad wrote: »

That would be a total monthly weight of about 40kg which some people can do if they take out all bottles jars and compost their food waste and have a wormery in the garden etc etc, Most people are not so Green and never will be!

All bottles/glass jars go in a glass bin (classed as recycling so "free").

Don't compost anything. All food waste goes into the brown bin for collection. It is always way heavier than the refuse bin which is mainly plastic wrappings so pretty light. No nappies though anymore thankfully. I remember dragging out those bins with nappies from our twins...gawd that would have been costly.

LynnGrace

We are with Citybin. Even if we didn't put the bin out at all in the coming year, and kept it as an ornament , we would still be paying quite a bit more in the standing charge alone, than we paid previously for the year (annual charge plus lifts).

StillThinking

I'm in Donegal and always paid per lift with tags, been trying to find out for the last 2 months what the standing charges and price per kilo will be with the 2 service providers in my area, Ferry's and DM waste, checked yesterday and still no word so I have no idea how much it's going to cost me. Previous price was €17 for black bin and recycling every 6-8 weeks, we have a compost bin so no charge for that

Ludo

LynnGrace wrote: »

We are with Citybin. Even if we didn't put the bin out at all in the coming year, and kept it as an ornament , we would still be paying quite a bit more in the standing charge alone, than we paid previously for the year (annual charge plus lifts).

That should be illegal. So wrong.

Polo_Mint

Got a mail from AES today for Kildare

From July 1st

Service Charge will be €90 per 6 months

General Waste €0.25 per KG

Recycling €0.00 per KG

Brown Bin €0.15 per KG

Glass €0.00 per KG

Alf Veedersane

That service charge is pretty saucy.

steirishrover

I've just moved in this week to a new rented property.. their is no bins as of yet as the landlord has said I can sort that myself when I'm ready..

I'm living in Dublin 11.. think the 3 companies around the area I can pick is Greyhound, Panda and City Bin.

So can anyone tell me who be the best/cheapest to sign up with? Alot in the area seem to have the red bins but I'm so confused with all these new prices etc

foggy_lad

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I suppose it is. It just sounded low for 5 people and all credit to them if that's the case.

Gonna have to start hanging wet nappies out to dry and scooping the contents of dirty ones into brown bin....

The poop from babies and dogs can go into a wormery in the garden if you have one but might smell a bit.

Ludo wrote: »

All bottles/glass jars go in a glass bin (classed as recycling so "free").

Don't compost anything. All food waste goes into the brown bin for collection. It is always way heavier than the refuse bin which is mainly plastic wrappings so pretty light. No nappies though anymore thankfully. I remember dragging out those bins with nappies from our twins...gawd that would have been costly.

many places don't have such luxuries as organic or even glass bins, here in Carlow Town it is blue for recycling and black for general waste only, AES have a brown organic bin but no glass bin.
most people will have bins weighing from 40kg twice a month to 70+kg twice a month paying 25-39cent per kg.

carltonleon

ted1 wrote: »

I'm on Killiney so we are already being ripped off. 65 euro a year, +3.20 a lift + 27.7C per kg.

Is that with Panda ?
You aren't doing bad, it's going to be €86 a year + €3.20 a lift + 27.7c per kg in Fingal

guil

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Got a mail from AES today for Kildare

From July 1st

Service Charge will be €90 per 6 months

General Waste €0.25 per KG

Recycling €0.00 per KG

Brown Bin €0.15 per KG

Glass €0.00 per KG

There's a second plan available in Kildare. The one you posted is standard and the other is basic. I posted it in the sticky at the top of the forum.

neris

Im reckoning mine will be just under €330 more expensive then what Im paying now with Panda in Fingal.

well whoopty fupin doo

The service charge is €86 per year (down from your current service charge of €110)

unkel

More. We will be going from €199 to over €600 per year

Family of 5 and our green recycling bin is so full I have to stamp on it every single collection (and then the stuff still doesn't fit in)

Ludo

unkel wrote: »

More. We will be going from €199 to over €600 per year

I would love to see the calculation for this 600. Is there a huge standing charge?

Mine is going from 350 to 325 roughly for family of five. I am obviously very lucky with my company.

Sleeper12

Ludo wrote:

I would love to see the calculation for this 600. Is there a huge standing charge?

Mine is going from 260 to over 500 per year. We're with Dublin City Bins. We've been paying by weight for the last 18 months.

We fill green bin, it gets compressed & we fill it again. We still don't have enough room so we bring as much again to dcc bring centre.

Everything that can legally go into Brown bin goes in there.

Black bin is full to the top every 2 weeks.

Dublin City Bins say that we recycle proportionality more than most households. There is no way we can recycle more. I can live with the 28 to 30 euro per month for paying by weight, it's the 15 euro per month standing charge that I object to.

Poochie05

foggy_lad wrote: »

many places don't have such luxuries as organic or even glass bins, here in Carlow Town it is blue for recycling and black for general waste only, AES have a brown organic bin but no glass bin.
most people will have bins weighing from 40kg twice a month to 70+kg twice a month paying 25-39cent per kg.

All urban areas should have a brown bin, which I am assuming includes Carlow Town. if your waste collector isn't providing you with one you should report them to the council, they can't have it both ways!

http://www.environ.ie/environment/waste/food-waste/biofood-waste

The actual regulations for Household Food Waste for anyone who is interested
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/si/430/made/en/pdf

unkel

Ludo wrote: »

I would love to see the calculation for this 600. Is there a huge standing charge?

Currently we pay €199 all in per year, including unlimited lifts of green, brown and black bin (all collected every other week)

New: €169 standing charge (before any brown / black lifts) plus black bin every other week @48kg, so 26 lifts * 48 * 35 cent = €428

Total €600

In fairness, we could probably get this down by maybe €40 or €50 by using the brown bin (more). We have very little food waste though and we compost all garden waste.

hairyslug

I reckon I'll be paying somewhere in the region of 500/600, we are currently paying around 360.

The big problem in our household is that there are 2 children still in nappies. We are just waiting to see if there will be any allowance made for people with special needs kids.

ryanduffycountydublin1975

unkel wrote: »

Currently we pay €199 all in per year, including unlimited lifts of green, brown and black bin (all collected every other week)

New: €169 standing charge (before any brown / black lifts) plus black bin every other week @48kg, so 26 lifts * 48 * 35 cent = €428

Total €600

In fairness, we could probably get this down by maybe €40 or €50 by using the brown bin (more). We have very little food waste though and we compost all garden waste.

What ministers and TD's have failed to realise is the abolition of the pay per weight system will not stop prices increases. It wouldn't matter if the pay per bin system remains, prices will still go up (exactly as outlined in my original article), I assure you off that. The waste cartel merely used the timing of the introduction of the new regulations to announce price increases and hope they went unnoticed (which they didn't) but I assure you pay per weight is not the cause of it, reduced competition is, which is a direct consequence of Panda's acquisition of Greenstar.

These TDs also fail to comprehend that unless the waste and recycling facilities such as the Dublin City Council MRF (which is currently run by Panda) are controlled by new parties not involved in the domestic collections, then real competition will never exist. Why? Because new entrants cannot operate when they have nowhere to bring their waste and recyclables other than the existing cartel members .

Furthermore, recycling facilities do not make money as therefore no new companies will enter the marketplace and build a waste and recycling facility as is there is no return on investment. It is that simple.

The only way new companies will enter the market is if they can bring the waste and recyclables to 3rd party facilities run by none of the existing domestic collectors. The poolbeg facility (run by Covanta) will offer a place to deliver general waste but there is still nowhere to deliver the green bin recyclables other than to thortons and the Dublin City Council Facility (run by Panda). So if the government want consumers to be protected and real competition to exist, they will need to take the 10 year lease Panda has on this and appoint a company to run the Dublin City Council MRF (someone is not involved in the collection of waste in Ireland).

ryanduffycountydublin1975

KoolKid wrote: »

Any truth in the stories that large companies and supermarkets etc are actually paid by the waste disposal companies to allow them to collect all the recyclable materials.
Now if that was to be introduced for domestic waste that would be the incentive needed to get people recycling properly.

Yes, waste and recycling companies buy baled commodities from large supermarkets. However, they are no sorting costs or contaminants and the materials are collected, loaded into containers and exported.

The collection of the recyclables in the green bin is completely different. For a start, they have to be sorted, which is expensive, there is over 30% out throw and a lot of the plastics such as trays etc are low valuable or even minus value.

What most people don't realise is not all plastics are recyclable or even ones that are recyclables, sometimes don't have value. For example, plastic films are primarily laminated to keep food fresh and cannot be recycled (remelted down).

However, waste companies do send most of their general waste to cement kilns and the general waste is a substitue to coal. Currently, they dont get paid by the cement kilns (they get charged approx €30 per tonne), but in time, they will get paid for general waste as more incinerators come online.

ryanduffycountydublin1975

KoolKid wrote: »

Any truth in the stories that large companies and supermarkets etc are actually paid by the waste disposal companies to allow them to collect all the recyclable materials.
Now if that was to be introduced for domestic waste that would be the incentive needed to get people recycling properly.

Yes, waste and recycling companies buy baled commodities from large supermarkets. However, there are no sorting costs or contaminants within the materials and once collected they are loaded directly into containers and exported.

The collection of the recyclables in the green bin is completely different. For a start, they have to be sorted, which is expensive, there is over 30% out throw (again expensive) and a lot of the plastics such as trays etc are low valuable or even minus value.

What most people don't realise is not all plastics are recyclable or even ones that are recyclables, sometimes don't have value. For example, plastic films are primarily laminated to keep food fresh and cannot be recycled (remelted down).

However, waste companies do send most of their general waste to cement kilns and the general waste is a substitute to coal. Currently, they don't get paid by the cement kilns (they get charged approx €30 per tonne), but in time, they will get paid for general waste as more incinerators come online.

foggy_lad

There is a lot of stuff that is not permitted in the recycling bins for most companies that the public and even our politicians(who are human too) will think should be recyclable.

Here is a list from Ray Whelans Carlow.



I have been putting most of the items on this list into my recycling bin! so people think it is expensive now, wait till the gougers start to crack down on the bin contents.

Alf Veedersane

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is a lot of stuff that is not permitted in the recycling bins for most companies that the public and even our politicians(who are human too) will think should be recyclable.

Here is a list from Ray Whelans Carlow.



I have been putting most of the items on this list into my recycling bin! so people think it is expensive now, wait till the gougers start to crack down on the bin contents.

To be fair, there's not much on that list that should be in the recycling bin.

Ludo

unkel wrote: »

Currently we pay €199 all in per year, including unlimited lifts of green, brown and black bin (all collected every other week)

New: €169 standing charge (before any brown / black lifts) plus black bin every other week @48kg, so 26 lifts * 48 * 35 cent = €428

Total €600

In fairness, we could probably get this down by maybe €40 or €50 by using the brown bin (more). We have very little food waste though and we compost all garden waste.

Thanks for that. That is pretty bad alright. The differences in prices between areas is incredible. They are gonna have to roll back n all this as charges like that are just stupid.

foggy_lad

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

To be fair, there's not much on that list that should be in the recycling bin.

Hard plastics? black bags? clothes/shoes? most of the outer plastic packaging on foods is not recyclable but the harder plastic trays are.

Spanish Eyes

I will pay more. No matter what company is touting for my business.

Cartels or us.

Leroy42

Currently we are told by our bin collector to ensure the bins are left out by 6.30 am, and they are then collected by the company.

But that is not feasible from 1 July as what is to stop any person from simply dumping their waste in my bin, as I am being asked to leave the bin outside my property? How can I then be held accountable for anything that is in the bin?

Surely the waste companies will not have to provide some sort of lock system or either to call into each dwelling to collect direct from the customer?

In addition, I can foresee many people asking to see the certificate for weight calibration from the vehicle for each lift, as we know from the NCT the cert can only really been taken as correct at the time of the cert.

Sleeper12

Leroy42 wrote:

But that is not feasible from 1 July as what is to stop any person from simply dumping their waste in my bin, as I am being asked to leave the bin outside my property? How can I then be held accountable for anything that is in the bin?

They won't get any in my bins. Mine are bursting at the seams as it is.

Alf Veedersane

foggy_lad wrote: »

Hard plastics? black bags? clothes/shoes? most of the outer plastic packaging on foods is not recyclable but the harder plastic trays are.

The place to recycle clothes isn't recycling bins. There are plenty of places to send clothes and shoes and not just throwing them in recycling bin.

Hard plastics have never really been recyclable in Ireland. They can be sent abroad and possibly be granulated but there aren't any outlets in Ireland for that. Probably ends up going for SRF.

KoolKid

Anyone getting deja vu of Irish Water?

smjm

LynnGrace wrote: »

We are with Citybin. Even if we didn't put the bin out at all in the coming year, and kept it as an ornament , we would still be paying quite a bit more in the standing charge alone, than we paid previously for the year (annual charge plus lifts).

Same here, although with a different collector. My current yearly bill is €107, all-in, on a pay-per-lift basis. My new yearly standing charge will be €156 alone! The added weight will bring this to approx €250 per year. Mad increase! I suspect the same will apply for many 1 or 2 person households, including most pensioner households, who currently pay per lift!