Optimum water intake

PMBC

Hi there all water drinkers. Today I drank two litres over the day and no tea since breakfast. I'm a big tea drinker and often/could easily drink six cups of tea before mid-day. Once I don't drink any/little tea in the afternoon I don't have to rise at night. But that's not really my issue. I water intake based on age, weight etc. and is the optimum 2 litres, often quoted, an average figure. Considering my large tea intake, what effect would this diuretic have on my needed intake.

Zillah

Tea is 99.99% water so is in no way a net diuretic. I've never understood this modern obsession with drinking X amount of water anyway. Thirst is probably your most useful tool. If that's not enough to go by then as long as your pee is mostly clear you are getting plenty of water.

PMBC

Zillah wrote: »

Tea is 99.99% water so is in no way a net diuretic. I've never understood this modern obsession with drinking X amount of water anyway. Thirst is probably your most useful tool. If that's not enough to go by then as long as your pee is mostly clear you are getting plenty of water.

Good point Zillah. When doctor asked me last week how much water I drank I said less than litre but lots of tea (I drink little or no coffee). To which he replied tea and coffee are diuretics .... etc. Id like to know the physiological basis for the 2 litres. I tend to always be thirsty in Ireland but strangely not as much in arid countries, where I found tea always a better thirst quencher. Negative for diabetes.
Thanks

Hanley

PMBC wrote: »

Good point Zillah. When doctor asked me last week how much water I drank I said less than litre but lots of tea (I drink little or no coffee). To which he replied tea and coffee are diuretics .... etc. Id like to know the physiological basis for the 2 litres. I tend to always be thirsty in Ireland but strangely not as much in arid countries, where I found tea always a better thirst quencher. Negative for diabetes.
Thanks

Your doctor shows a stunning lack of comprehension of the net hydration effect of coffee/tea.

Aiming for 1 litre of water (total) for every 25kg of bodyweight per day is a good target.

Is your urine is clear or pale yellow, you're on point.

PMBC

Hanley wrote: »

Your doctor shows a stunning lack of comprehension of the net hydration effect of coffee/tea.

Aiming for 1 litre of water (total) for every 25kg of bodyweight per day is a good target.

Is your urine is clear or pale yellow, you're on point.

Thanks Hanley - that will allow me to self-monitor.
What do you mean by the 'net hydration effect'. Is it simply the amount of water in the six or so cups of tea that I drink can be added to the water I drink to give the gross amount of water consumed. Therefore I drink 2 litres of water and 3 by 25 cl of water as tea giving 2.75 versus need as body weight in 25 kgs by 1 litre

Zillah

By net hydration he means that even if caffeine is a diuretic, it causes you to lose less water than you just drank. A mug of tea is mostly a mug of water, the caffeine doesn't undo its hydrating effects.

Hanley

PMBC wrote: »

Thanks Hanley - that will allow me to self-monitor.
What do you mean by the 'net hydration effect'. Is it simply the amount of water in the six or so cups of tea that I drink can be added to the water I drink to give the gross amount of water consumed. Therefore I drink 2 litres of water and 3 by 25 cl of water as tea giving 2.75 versus need as body weight in 25 kgs by 1 litre

Say for every "unit" of tea or coffee you drink, it causes you to pee out 50ml of water.

If a unit of tea/coffee is served in a 250ml mug, the coffee/tea causes you to pee out 50ml.

...but you're still 200ml up on what you would have if you didn't drink it at all.

If you drank the equivalent in water, you'd be 250ml up.

Numbers are completely made up and for illustrative purposes only.

rubadub

There was a study done on coffee showing normal strength coffee was not causing dehydration. As regular tea has less caffeine it would be even less.

There is often a figure quoted of 8 glasses of water, but this was a layperson misunderstanding some hospital/medical report/advice. It said people needed X litres of fluid intake per day (and probably quoted in litres per kilo bodyweight). But this was supposed to be calculated with their food in mind too. e.g. if you ate enough watermelon you may not need to be drinking water at all. Milk is obviously mainly water too, or if you ate lots of soup.

PMBC

rubadub wrote: »

There was a study done on coffee showing normal strength coffee was not causing dehydration. As regular tea has less caffeine it would be even less.

There is often a figure quoted of 8 glasses of water, but this was a layperson misunderstanding some hospital/medical report/advice. It said people needed X litres of fluid intake per day (and probably quoted in litres per kilo bodyweight). But this was supposed to be calculated with their food in mind too. e.g. if you ate enough watermelon you may not need to be drinking water at all. Milk is obviously mainly water too, or if you ate lots of soup.

OK. I get it now and it was more or less as I thought.
Thanks for all the help on this.

Mellor

rubadub wrote: »

There was a study done on coffee showing normal strength coffee was not causing dehydration.

But that should be completely obvious though. You'd really expect a medical professional to reach that conclusion on their, at the very lest be aware of it.

ford2600

Mellor wrote: »

But that should be completely obvious though. You'd really expect a medical professional to reach that conclusion on their, at the very lest be aware of it.

There is a lot of bad doctors out there...

About 6 years ago the company I worked for paid for a full medical in a private hospital, I think it was about €500. You would want to see the blurb they have on their website about how thorough they are..

At time I was about 85kgs and 1.8m so BMI of 26.5ish but about 12% bodyfat.

While in consultation I was told to drop 7lbs, eat a low fat diet etc etc. I respectfully suggested that BMI was not much of a health indicator for someone who was athletic. 30 mins later while I was on treadmill doing ecg, wearing just runners and shorts, doctor came in and repeated same nonsense. With ramp at about 20% and my heart rate at 90% max I wasn't as diplomatic when I asked her where exactly I needed to lose fat...

Another dr at the one time told me to eat more red meat to improve my Vitamin b12 levels while 5 mins later telling me to eat less red meat to lower cholesterol levels..

On hydration this isn't bad, podcast 4 is an introduction
http://www.scienceofultra.com/podcasts/7

PMBC

Thanks for that information Ford2600. This site, as well as the Irish supporters in France, give me hope for this country.
On the matter of BMI I read medical commentary last year that the analysis on which Max and optimum BMI is based was flawed. In my humble opinion fitness is more important than a lot of things.

PMBC

Excellent site, that. I don't run and walk little but it has all the physiological information that I can learn from.

Mellor

ford2600 wrote: »

There is a lot of bad doctors out there...

There really is. I can accept completely not staying up to date with the latest understanding in all the specialist aspects. But basic nutrition affects everyone. For a GP it's even worse.

About 6 years ago the company I worked for paid for a full medical in a private hospital, I think it was about €500. You would want to see the blurb they have on their website about how thorough they are..

At time I was about 85kgs and 1.8m so BMI of 26.5ish but about 12% bodyfat.

While in consultation I was told to drop 7lbs, eat a low fat diet etc etc...

I had a feeling that was going that way. It's bad enough when it's a nurse in admissions reading from a script. But doctor specialising in physicals, jokeshow. They obviously just got a lend of the same script.

PMBC

Hanley wrote: »

Your doctor shows a stunning lack of comprehension of the net hydration effect of coffee/tea.

Aiming for 1 litre of water (total) for every 25kg of bodyweight per day is a good target.

Is your urine is clear or pale yellow, you're on point.

I like that turn of phrase 'a stunning lack of comprehension'. I have to find the figure of speech for that today

Zillah

ford2600 wrote: »

There is a lot of bad doctors out there...

Well, those anecdotes make me feel angry.

At least anyone who knows enough about health and fitness to be an exception to BMI will likely know enough to discount this sort of nonsense. Still though.

PMBC

So for today I had three cups of tea, net intake of water 600 ml., one large glass of water 300 ml., both of these measured, milk with cereal estimated 200 ml. and one litre bottle of water 9from the tap). Total 2.1 litre. Will have another,at least, teeo cups of tea over the day. Ill take in about 2.5 litre which is fine and pee is white/clear atm.
Thanks again to all posters. It was the information I wanted and needed.

Blue Whale

Zillah wrote: »

Well, those anecdotes make me feel angry.

At least anyone who knows enough about health and fitness to be an exception to BMI will likely know enough to discount this sort of nonsense. Still though.

If your don't have much muscle then BMI is a good indication for most people. Also a good indication is poking yourself and pinching yourself to feel your own fat!

ford2600

Blue Whale wrote: »

If your don't have much muscle then BMI is a good indication for most people. Also a good indication is poking yourself and pinching yourself to feel your own fat!

There is nobody arguing the contrary. It works well on a population level as a guideline. This was a €500 bells and whistles medical.

A well paid physician, with a subject in front of her (with a bared torso on treadmill) at 12% bodyfat and a history of continuous athletic participation since childhood is giving professional advice which is complete boll1x by any metric. With the food pyramid/low fat/cereal nonsense thrown in for good measure.

Mellor

Blue Whale wrote: »

If your don't have much muscle then BMI is a good indication for most people.

That's true but not really relevant to the situation above.

Also a good indication is poking yourself and pinching yourself to feel your own fat!

It's a decent way to measure progress.
But its very hard for laypeople to objectively quantify pinched fat in terms of health.