Woman gives out about sexism at women's only mini marathon

UM1

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/run-like-you-left-the-immersion-on-everyday-sexism-and-the-mini-marathon-1.2677199


Apoligies ..just saw it posted in the ladys mini mara thread...but mite get more trackage here

average_runner

UM1 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/run-like-you-left-the-immersion-on-everyday-sexism-and-the-mini-marathon-1.2677199


Apoligies ..just saw it posted in the ladys mini mara thread...but mite get more trackage here

She lives a sad life if this stuff upsets her.

I mean "Run like you left the immersion on" is hardly sexist towards women, its just an irish thing said to women, men and kids in the 80's. My mother would often of said to me, i hope you turned that immersion of!!

Pherekydes

Wait till she sees the title of this thread...

average_runner

Pherekydes wrote: »

Wait till she sees the title of this thread...

She is having twins reading the comment section on her article!!

Chivito550

Just on the topic of sexism, how many women have asked their husbands, fathers, brothers, boyfriends, sons etc at one point or another to "man up"?

What's that all about?

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Just on the topic of sexism, how many women have asked their husbands, fathers, brothers, boyfriends, sons etc at one point or another to "man up"?

What's that all about?

Very true.

She wouldn't have the balls to come on here and answer the comments!

williestroker1

I hope she got permission from her husband to write that.

RGDATA!

Chivito550 wrote: »

Just on the topic of sexism, how many women have asked their husbands, fathers, brothers, boyfriends, sons etc at one point or another to "man up"?

What's that all about?

is this common? I've never heard it.

Chivito550

RGDATA! wrote: »

is this common? I've never heard it.

You have never heard the term "man up"? :eek:

In two words it shows that equality and sexism is not a two-way street it seems!

kit3

Chivito550 wrote: »

Just on the topic of sexism, how many women have asked their husbands, fathers, brothers, boyfriends, sons etc at one point or another to "man up"?

What's that all about?

Must say it's not a term I've ever used. Have you heard it a lot ?? :P

UM1

kit3 wrote: »

Must say it's not a term I've ever used. Have you heard it a lot ?? :P

Often was told to harden up

aero2k

I've seen the immersion one in at least one mixed race (maybe DCM). I'd never have regarded it as sexist, just something that would strike a chord in Ireland in general.

average_runner

UM1 wrote: »

Often was told to harden up

Not an issue I ever had!:D

williestroker1

Chivito550 wrote: »

You have never heard the term "man up"? :eek:

In two words it shows that equality and sexism is not a two-way street it seems!

Looks like your on your own on this one.

Chivito550

kit3 wrote: »

Must say it's not a term I've ever used. Have you heard it a lot ?? :P

Mad. It is such a commonly used term.

williestroker1

Chivito550 wrote: »

Mad. It is such a commonly used term.

Haven't heard it myself. Has anyone else here?

Chivito550

williestroker1 wrote: »

Looks like your on your own on this one.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11724215/Is-man-up-the-most-destructive-phrase-in-modern-culture.html

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Man%20Up

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/09/responses-to-man-up/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/magazine/05FOB-onlanguage-t.html?_r=0

The thing is that women use this term as much as men do, which is completely hypocritical.

ThisRegard

williestroker1 wrote: »

Haven't heard it myself. Has anyone else here?

I've heard of it plenty of times. Never had to be told to do it though, due to my 24/7 manliness, probably.

Firedance

I definitely saw that immersion one in DCM 14, it did make me laugh. I can kind of see where she's coming from and although it's not something that would bother me personally she has a right to express her views and it's never any harm to have the discussion is it? People's perspectives are different, some women will agree strongly with her, others will shrug their shoulders and say 'Meh, there are other battles more worthy of fighting'.

But does she spot the irony of complaining as UM1 has said in a women's only race where men are not allowed? Doubtful!

Chivitto I think that 'man up' expression is more American than Irish but I'd agree I have heard it used (not sure if on TV or IRL though).

tea and coffee

I don't find any of those 3 comments she mentioned in the article offensive in the slightest (I participated in the mini marathon). They could all equally be aimed at men. I would reserve my ire for actual sexism, instead of getting offended where no offence is intended. Comparing a light hearted comment or banner to the atrocities of practises of FGM (comments section) is completely disingenuous, and offensive in itself.

Chivito550

Firedance wrote: »

Chivitto I think that 'man up' expression is more American than Irish but I'd agree I have heard it used (not sure if on TV or IRL though).

I've heard it used in real life in both Ireland and Australia, sometimes by women who proclaim themselves as feminists. Incredible stuff really!

REXER

Pathetic 1st world problem.

In the 3rd world the women have to fetch the water and then find the wood for the fire to heat it!

Realt Dearg Sec

williestroker1 wrote: »

Haven't heard it myself. Has anyone else here?

Not from a woman. From men when playing sports and you're injured, but only ever joking.

williestroker1

Its so unusual for a feminist to find offense with anything.

ThisRegard

Firedance wrote: »

I definitely saw that immersion one in DCM 14, it did make me laugh. I can kind of see where she's coming from

I honestly don't. I cannot fathom how leaving the immersion on has become a bastion of sexism. As I understand it neither sex has exclusivity to do.

Firedance

ThisRegard wrote: »

I honestly don't. I cannot fathom how leaving the immersion on has become a bastion of sexism. As I understand it neither sex has exclusivity to do.

No, I didn't mean with the immersion comment, don't get me wrong, I meant that I can see sometimes why people can take offense at 'some things' and being shouted 'don't worry your hair still looks great' might come under that. It doesn't bother me personally, I'm just saying that people have different perspectives on things, and that's mostly okay, especially if it gets a good debate going.

The debate in this case might be as Chivitto has pointed out men being told to 'man up' or a race that exists that doesn't allow men to take part.

You only quoted part of my post which takes it out of context

ThisRegard

Firedance wrote: »

You only quoted part of my post which takes it out of context

I get ya.

One thing I haven't heard in a long long time being shouted is "lift those hairy legs!". I can certainly understand a woman being offended at that.

kit3

Chivito550 wrote: »

Mad. It is such a commonly used term.

Think you miss read my post - I've never used the term. Have heard it alright. Was merely asking if you are asked to do this often (only winding :rolleyes: )

cjt156

Pfft; she'll never snag herself a husband with an attitude like that..

Seriously, though; such a trivial article is just a disservice to the real issues that need addressing. The Stanford case and the attitude of the court, the rapist's family and other apologists are something worth writing column inches over.

This is nonsense.

DubOnHoliday

Similar to the idiot who claimed after falling on the Wicklow way, some people should not go outside their door. Better for the rest of us.

RacoonQueen

I reckon the irony of complaining about sexism at this particular event is lost on this journalist.

tang1

UM1 wrote: »

Often was told to harden up

What your missus tells you doesn't count!

ThebitterLemon

Crap like this just undermines legitimate equality issues.

I'm from a different generation but the extent of "political correctness" today is just nonsense, to my mind it's actually a threat to free speech where umbrage can be taken and the person tarred with some label such as racist, sexist, homophobe etc to silence them.

Grow up, get a sense of perspective and complain about the important issues.

TbL

glacial_pace71

There's a whole barrage of nasty, demeaning 'banter' that women have to endure when running. Alas this article detracts from that issue.

Depressingly, it's written with the absolutist certainty of someone who has run "tens of races" and who was impervious to enlightenment by friends and family who'd encountered a whole diverse array of slogans at races.

Some people way well take offence at descriptions such as 'manhole' rather than 'personhole' or 'gap in the ground of non-specific gender but no less equal for that absence of patriarchal relativist definition'. Some people have more important battles to fight.

It's particularly sad that the article was given as much column space as articles about the Curtis Cup and golfer Leona Maguire, or Mary Hannigan's article on boxer Kellie Harrington.

(Ironically Sonia O'Sullivan's article today was about the thorny gender issue of intersex athletes and testosterone http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/sonia-o-sullivan-intersex-athletes-and-the-problem-of-testosterone-1.2677419 ).

HS3

Chivito550 wrote: »

Just on the topic of sexism, how many women have asked their husbands, fathers, brothers, boyfriends, sons etc at one point or another to "man up"?

What's that all about?

Ive heard the phrase man up and probably have been guilty of using it, up until I had two sons myself. I'm a right pain about it now. My particular bug bear atm is the whole 'Raise your son to be a gentleman because my daughter will be raised to accept no less' ....or 'any lad wants to date my daughter will get a slap from me'.. Imagine if they were phrased the opposite way round!

Erm anyhow...the signs on the wmm route always used to by fairly encouraging...it must have changed since the new sponsor took over!

Dubgal72

glacial_pace71 wrote: »

(Ironically Sonia O'Sullivan's article today was about the thorny gender issue of intersex athletes and testosterone http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/sonia-o-sullivan-intersex-athletes-and-the-problem-of-testosterone-1.2677419 ).

While she makes some valid points, the subject is far more complex than Sonia's disappointingly black and white version allows. I for one am glad that the official bodies concerned are taking their time with ruling on this sensitive and complex issue. In the meantime, I hope Semenya and others like her get to hold their heads up high on the international stage. Nothing easy about this call.

thejuggler

It always amuses me how RTE in particular gives a lot of coverage to this annual fun run while the full marathon which takes place in Cork on the same date is always given just a one line mention at the end.
They've got better in recent years buts its still fairly obvious. I wonder if the venues were reversed and the mini marathon was held outside the Pale would it merit such coverage.

demfad

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I reckon the irony of complaining about sexism at this particular event is lost on this journalist.

I think there are many events which are exclusive to particular groups in Ireland and beyond. This in itself isn't proof of discrimination.
The proof is in the reason for the exclusivity or if any group is disadvantaged by the exclusivity.
The reason for the event emanates from when it was incepted in the 80's. Women in Ireland then had very different lives than the men. The idea was to get these women healthy and active, physically and socially.
Mixed gender races then had tiny amounts of women. The numbers and success shows that a female only event was the correct way to go.
Nobody was disadvantaged by this as clearly there are many other events men can partake in. It's continued success is reason enough for its continuation. Therefore this is not a sexist event. The accusation of hypocrisy (on the journalists part) is misplaced.

On the article itself and the premise that language and people's reaction/blindness to it are symptomatic of 'everyday sexism'.
I'd actually agree. For proof just look no further than the original title of this thread and the (lack of) reaction to it. (notable exception Pheredykes)

walshb

Sexism is not unnatural or unhealthy. It's part of the fabric and makeup of human beings. Suppressing it is what's unnatural. The article, in that sense is unnatural. While the points raised in the article may show an element of sexism, it fails miserably to show any elements of offence and derision!

UM1

Hopefully the woman,or anybody else,isnt outraged that that she is not called an author on the new title of this thread..

annapr

UM1 wrote: »

Hopefully the woman,or anybody else,isnt outraged that that she is not called an author on the new title of this thread..

You used the word 'woman'... I'm shocked.

kit3

demfad wrote: »

I think there are many events which are exclusive to particular groups in Ireland and beyond. This in itself isn't proof of discrimination.
The proof is in the reason for the exclusivity or if any group is disadvantaged by the exclusivity.
The reason for the event emanates from when it was incepted in the 80's. Women in Ireland then had very different lives than the men. The idea was to get these women healthy and active, physically and socially.
Mixed gender races then had tiny amounts of women. The numbers and success shows that a female only event was the correct way to go.
Nobody was disadvantaged by this as clearly there are many other events men can partake in. It's continued success is reason enough for its continuation. Therefore this is not a sexist event. The accusation of hypocrisy (on the journalists part) is misplaced.

On the article itself and the premise that language and people's reaction/blindness to it are symptomatic of 'everyday sexism'.
I'd actually agree. For proof just look no further than the original title of this thread and the (lack of) reaction to it. (notable exception Pheredykes)

The history and merits of the WMM have been done to death on the forum every year. The only difference this year is that it didn't happen before the race for once.

What I find interesting is that, despite the high number of women posting on the forum, there has been virtually no support for the article. That in itself makes a statement.

In terms of the original title of this thread, I think that most people took it as 'tongue in cheek' given the author. In fact, given previous history on the forum, I would have thought that the term 'woman/women' would cause more controversy than a tongue in cheek 'burd'.

I think at this stage that Irish women in the main are confident enough in themselves not to worry about such trivia. As TBL says, there are much bigger issues to concern ourselves with.

UM1

annapr wrote: »

You used the word 'woman'... I'm shocked.

I suppose the fairer sex has feelings too.

The YOPPA

By right she should be complaining about all the motivational posters that were on display...they were ALL directed at women!

rom

thejuggler wrote: »

It always amuses me how RTE in particular gives a lot of coverage to this annual fun run while the full marathon which takes place in Cork on the same date is always given just a one line mention at the end.
They've got better in recent years buts its still fairly obvious. I wonder if the venues were reversed and the mini marathon was held outside the Pale would it merit such coverage.

RTE don't travel well.

ThisRegard

demfad wrote: »

IFor proof just look no further than the original title of this thread and the (lack of) reaction to it. (notable exception Pheredykes)

The post questioning the title by Pheredykes has at the moment 21 thanks. Kit gives a good explanation too, I imagine the original title was dripping in irony given the subject matter.

kit3

ThisRegard wrote: »

The post questioning the title by Pheredykes has at the moment 21 thanks which to me is indicative of a reaction to it.

I thanked that post but didn't take it as a criticism of the title in the least.

ThisRegard

kit3 wrote: »

I thanked that post but didn't take it as a criticism of the title in the least.

You're too fast even for my ninja edit which I made to clarify that it wasn't because people were all booing UM1, the sexist pig.

tunguska

It seems that she was looking to be offended. She was shocked that the other ladies didn't take offence at what that man said........ Maybe they didn't interpret his words as sexist. But the author of that article wouldn't contemplate such a scenario because she's too busy assuming that because she chose to see sexism that all women should see sexism.
The question she should've asked herself was, why am I looking for sexism in the first place? If she looked in and not out she'd get some answers. But I venture to guess this won't happen. Its easier to take offence and blame everyone else than it is to confront our own view of the world.

Alan30

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/06/09/i-dont-believe-a-word-of-this-controversial-opinion-piece-ive-just-written/

uvox

The real sexism here is calling this a "mini-marathon". It's a 10K FFS. What an insult to women who actually train, run, and complete genuine marathons. Might as well call it a "mini-ultra marathon"...