Easy calving stock Bull

Irish Beef

I’m just looking for peoples opinion here, I’ve recently brought a stock bull, he’s a really big animal and still only 21 months old, he’s a limo with a calving difficulty of 7.7%, would you say I might get calving difficulties, and would you steer clear of him with heifers. I'm running him with suckler cows,

patsy_mccabe

Well the limousin breed average is 5%, so your bull is a little on the hard calving side. Ardlea Dan is 7.5% proven for comparison. I've used him a lot and I would avoid using him on heifers, to be honest.
What age do you calf heifers at and do you restrict feeding in the few weeks before calving?

blue5000

Welcome to boards, 7.7% but what's the reliability? You are taking a chance with heifers.

Irish Beef

Thanks for your quick Reply Patsy. I'm not long in the suckler game, wasn't planning on using a stock bull but found it almost impossible to detect heat, my plan with the heifers is to calf them down at 24 months and I would either restrict the silage or use lower quality silage or haylage adlib.

Irish Beef

The reliability is down as 31% (Low). Does that mean the 7.7% calving figure could be inaccurate.

blue5000

Ya, look up his pedigree on icbf bull search.

Irish Beef

Ya that's where I'm getting these Figures on the icbf bull search.

FeelTheBern

That figure will likely change somewhat over time as he produces calves but the fact it's on the high side starting off would suggest that his breeding on the hard calving side. Generally easier to AI heifers than cows so my suggestion would be to AI your heifers and just use him on cows for this year. You'll have an idea of what kind of calves he's bringing them and can decide what to do with heifers next year.

tractorporn

Irish Beef wrote:

The reliability is down as 31% (Low). Does that mean the 7.7% calving figure could be inaccurate.

It means that the figure might change as more info is gathered off his progeny. Calving figure could go up or down. Personally I wouldn't go any stronger than 3.5% calving difficulty on heifers.

Irish Beef

Thanks for the info, think i'll do as ye say, keep him for the mature cows and try Ai the heifers until I see his calves.

mahoney_j

Bought me an Aubrac bull this evening ,smashing looking bull with great feet and really nice calves which I seen .easy calving too

Bullocks

mahoney_j wrote: »

Bought me an Aubrac bull this evening ,smashing looking bull with great feet and really nice calves which I seen .easy calving too

Will the calves come a colour that might be mistaken for Jersey breeding ?

mahoney_j

Bullocks wrote: »

Will the calves come a colour that might be mistaken for Jersey breeding ?

Yes but most certainly not je !!!!.seen calves out of hol cows .brown in appearance with the head of je but body and rear end most def not .5 star maternal heifers which will be in big demand from suckler men

Bullocks

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yes but most certainly not je !!!!.seen calves out of hol cows .brown in appearance with the head of je but body and rear end most def not .5 star maternal heifers which will be in big demand from suckler men

Good stuff , hope he goes lucky for you mahony !

White Clover

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yes but most certainly not je !!!!.seen calves out of hol cows .brown in appearance with the head of je but body and rear end most def not .5 star maternal heifers which will be in big demand from suckler men

You will have to say that they are out of British Friesian cows Mahoney!!!

mahoney_j

White Clover wrote: »

You will have to say that they are out of British Friesian cows Mahoney!!!

Good square ones too!!!

Future Farmer

Irish Beef wrote: »

I’m just looking for peoples opinion here, I’ve recently brought a stock bull, he’s a really big animal and still only 21 months old, he’s a limo with a calving difficulty of 7.7%, would you say I might get calving difficulties, and would you steer clear of him with heifers. I'm running him with suckler cows,

The biggest part of it is what is his sire and MGS?

Were they used commercially or on Pedigrees?

Bulls used on Pedigree cows only tend to underestimate CD by about 2% in my opinion, so he could be closer to 10%....

Irish Beef

Future Farmer wrote: »

The biggest part of it is what is his sire and MGS?

Were they used commercially or on Pedigrees?

Bulls used on Pedigree cows only tend to underestimate CD by about 2% in my opinion, so he could be closer to 10%....

His sire is BONUX / S1407 and his Dams sire is IONESCO/ION

Future Farmer

Irish Beef wrote: »

His sire is BONUX / S1407 and his Dams sire is IONESCO/ION

BONUX 9.5% at 69% reliability

Only 53 births - 95% on LM - I'd imagine he's harder than that (4 on heifers which is tiny 25% CD 3 or 4).

https://webapp.icbf.com/bull-search/view/1004572232

ION 5% at 98% reliability

1800 births ok on heifers.

https://webapp.icbf.com/bull-search/view/409268951

Terminal sires, wouldn't use that bull on heifers and probably wouldn't keep any daughters based on their indexes.

FeelTheBern

Future Farmer wrote: »

BONUX 9.5% at 69% reliability

Only 53 births - 95% on LM - I'd imagine he's harder than that (4 on heifers which is tiny 25% CD 3 or 4).

ION 5% at 98% reliability

1800 births ok on heifers.

Terminal sires, wouldn't use that bull on heifers and probably wouldn't keep any daughters based on their indexes.

Fully agree with that - should breed serious terminal stock though.

Irish Beef

Future Farmer wrote: »

BONUX 9.5% at 69% reliability

Only 53 births - 95% on LM - I'd imagine he's harder than that (4 on heifers which is tiny 25% CD 3 or 4).

ION 5% at 98% reliability

1800 births ok on heifers.

Terminal sires, wouldn't use that bull on heifers and probably wouldn't keep any daughters based on their indexes.

Thanks Future Farmer for your detailed reply, Hopefully I wont get too much calving problems next spring as I would like to use him on heifers as I'm trying to increase numbers, as far as replacements are concerned I could AI a few of the earlier calving cows if I catch them bulling before they leave the shed or I don't mind the idea of buying in replacements. I had a look through the two links of The ICBF bull Data you sent but cant see where your able to see how many births were after these bulls and you said 95% LM, don't know where to find this. Thanks

GiantPencil

Irish Beef wrote: »

Future Farmer wrote: »

BONUX 9.5% at 69% reliability

Only 53 births - 95% on LM - I'd imagine he's harder than that (4 on heifers which is tiny 25% CD 3 or 4).

ION 5% at 98% reliability

1800 births ok on heifers.

Terminal sires, wouldn't use that bull on heifers and probably wouldn't keep any daughters based on their indexes.

Thanks Future Farmer for your detailed reply, Hopefully I wont get too much calving problems next spring as I would like to use him on heifers as I'm trying to increase numbers, as far as replacements are concerned I could AI a few of the earlier calving cows if I catch them bulling before they leave the shed or I don't mind the idea of buying in replacements. I had a look through the two links of The ICBF bull Data you sent but cant see where your able to see how many births were after these bulls and you said 95% LM, don't know where to find this. Thanks

When you click on the link and it takes you to the page with all the stars, click 'Calving difficulty (% 3 & 4)'. This is another link that can tell you what %breed he has calved to, it will also say what number of progeny were born off heifers, 2nd and 3rd calvers - it's written as 1st parity i.e. heifer etc. It will also say what % had difficulty of level 3 o4 4 when calving so it'll give you some perspective.

Also the other headings for carcass weight etc can be clicked on to find out what progeny were grading as when slaughtered...you'll just get an overall figure though like U- or R+. I find this really handy to look at when I sell breeding bulls, great pleasure knowing what kind of cattle they've been used on and what their grading at!

bullnuts

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yes but most certainly not je !!!!.seen calves out of hol cows .brown in appearance with the head of je but body and rear end most def not .5 star maternal heifers which will be in big demand from suckler men

Almost every dairy heifer calf will be up on 4 or 5 star ! Most suckler farmers will try breed their own replacements and maybe buy in a few ! So over all the supply will be far greater than the demand !

Irish Beef

This is more of a science the further you look into it, Thanks for all the info here. Just on that calving difficulty % 3 & 4 does that mean they are scoring the calving out of 5 and 3&4 being on the high end in terms of difficulty, also in the carcass section you can see that the grading is U- or R+, does that mean on average his calves graded this way. Thanks

tanko

Irish Beef wrote: »

This is more of a science the further you look into it, Thanks for all the info here. Just on that calving difficulty % 3 & 4 does that mean they are scoring the calving out of 5 and 3&4 being on the high end in terms of difficulty, also in the carcass section you can see that the grading is U- or R+, does that mean on average his calves graded this way. Thanks

I think 3 is serious difficulty (ie using a calving Jack) and 4 is veterinary assistance which would include a cesarean or a vet jacking the calf.
1 is a normal calving and 2 is some assistance.