Larsen traps

Corvidae

A poster posted in Animal & Pet Issues last evening about Larsen traps. The thread did not last long and the poster (not me) was directed to the Hunting forum. I hope here will be a more suitable location for my view on the issue.

Last year I had the misfortune of coming across one of these traps in my neighbourhood. I had been vaguely aware of their existence but had never seen one in the flesh. The "call" bird, a magpie, was visibly distressed as would be expected when one places a wild aerial creature into a twenty four inch cube on the ground. It was hopping from side to side smashing its head off the sides of the cage. As I observed it up close I could see the bird had obviously been sticking its beak out through the chicken wire sides leading to the skin becoming torn and bloodied. I withdrew from the area thinking that my presence was causing greater distress to the bird but while the bird could not see me I was still able to observe the manic behaviour. It truly was one of the most pitiful sights I have ever seen.

I understand there may be a need in certain circumstances to control certain bird populations but surely there are ways that don't involve what in my opinion is tantamount to torture.

With research done into Corvid intelligence that perhaps shows them to have similar intelligence to great apes I believe that such methods of trapping have no place in a modern society.

I would be interested to hear other members opinions on these traps.

The Eurasian magpie is the only non-mammal species known to be able to recognize itself in a mirror test.[4] Magpies have been observed taking part in elaborate grieving rituals, which have been likened to human funerals, including laying grass wreaths.[25][26] Marc Bekoff, at the University of Colorado, argues that it shows that they are capable of feeling complex emotions, including grief.[26]

Czhornet

I have used this type of trap with great success in catching other magpies at the back of my property in the last few years. The call bird is not used to being held in a small space and of course is going to try its best to get out, thus sticking its beak through the wire and cutting it skin over the beak, but once there is water, food and shelter provided then the legal side is covered and the trap can be used legitimately. Again you're presence up close to the cage will only make the bird more agitated and want to try even harder to get out, making it look more distressed than it normally would.

My call bird, got so used to me (checking twice a day) I could put my hand in (no gloves) to feed and water the bird. I even sprinkled water on him on hot days to cool him down, so good care of the call bird is important too.

Storm 10

I think trapping birds this way is disgusting, why trap and kill them they have more of a right to be as free as we do but like everything in the animal world we think we are the ones who can choose which of them can live or die.

Capercaillie

Larsen trap is not pleasant for the call bird (wild), living in a small cage. The bird will definitely get more agitated if somebody approaches the trap. Would not have a problem if people using trap to protect endangered species like lapwings/curlew/hen harrier. Using them to protect pheasants poults which are going to be shot for sport probably a bit unethical. Farms using them to protect lambs you can see their point of view. magpies are not endangered.

Half-cocked

In my experience, trapping magpies is a total waste of time. As soon as you trap the resident birds, more move in. Same with other corvids.

Corvidae

Czhornet wrote: »

I have used this type of trap with great success in catching other magpies at the back of my property in the last few years. The call bird is not used to being held in a small space and of course is going to try its best to get out, thus sticking its beak through the wire and cutting it skin over the beak, but once there is water, food and shelter provided then the legal side is covered and the trap can be used legitimately. Again you're presence up close to the cage will only make the bird more agitated and want to try even harder to get out, making it look more distressed than it normally would.

My call bird, got so used to me (checking twice a day) I could put my hand in (no gloves) to feed and water the bird. I even sprinkled water on him on hot days to cool him down, so good care of the call bird is important too.

I appreciate that it is currently legal . My opinion is that it should not be. While in your opinion you claim to have done all you could in relation to the welfare of the call bird it seems from your post that you accept injuries caused by your actions are acceptable. This is a sentient creature you are dealing with.

Also many, if not most traps will be set in isolated locations that may not be visited by the hunter for 24 hours or more. During this time the caged birds can be approached by ground predators and while they may be safe in their tiny prisons it surely must be a terrifying experience.

Corvidae

Half-cocked wrote: »

In my experience, trapping magpies is a total waste of time. As soon as you trap the resident birds, more move in. Same with other corvids.

If it is so futile this just makes the practice even more egregious.

Capercaillie

Corvidae wrote: »

If it is so futile this just makes the practice even more egregious.

If done on large scale it is effective, eg. at Lough Boora for the protection of grey partridge.

Half-cocked

Corvidae wrote: »

If it is so futile this just makes the practice even more egregious.

Generally you'll have 1 or 2 members of a parish gun club engaging in it. Because they are using only a few traps in a localized area they not having any real impact on magpie numbers.

If done on large scale it is effective, eg. at Lough Boora for the protection of grey partridge.

Fine when there is a genuine and necessary reason. And the call birds are looked after properly, but in a lot of cases they are badly treated. 'Its only a magpie' seems to be the attitude.

I've said it before on boards, I run a small pheasant shoot in Co Kildare and do zero 'vermin control' apart from trapping mink. The shoot returns are as good, if not better, than shoots which engage in intensive vermin control. Place is crawling with 'vermin' - foxes, magpies, hooded crows, all the other corvids. Plus protected predators- buzzards, pine martens, badgers, sparrowhawks etc etc. My predecessor shot, trapped and poisoned intensively and his shoot returns over the years have averaged out no better than mine. You won't find any Larsen traps on my patch.

cd07

Half-cocked wrote:

I've said it before on boards, I run a small pheasant shoot in Co Kildare and do zero 'vermin control' apart from trapping mink. The shoot returns are as good, if not better, than shoots which engage in intensive vermin control. Place is crawling with 'vermin' - foxes, magpies, hooded crows, all the other corvids. Plus protected predators- buzzards, pine martens, badgers, sparrowhawks etc etc. My predecessor shot, trapped and poisoned intensively and his shoot returns over the years have averaged out no better than mine. You won't find any Larsen traps on my patch.

Sounds like u resent the fact buzzards and sparrowhawks are protected! Iv seen first hand what gamekeepers do to protected birds of prey with little or no evidence to say they have any effect on pheasant numbers compared to road deaths , cats and natural death. Im not implying at all you kill bop but im a member of a gun club too and the amount of ****etalk i have to listen to about buzzards is unreal

Half-cocked

cd07 wrote: »

Sounds like u resent the fact buzzards and sparrowhawks are protected! Iv seen first hand what gamekeepers do to protected birds of prey with little or no evidence to say they have any effect on pheasant numbers compared to road deaths , cats and natural death. Im not implying at all you kill bop but im a member of a gun club too and the amount of ****etalk i have to listen to about buzzards is unreal

I don't resent anything. Where did you get that idea? I just differentiated between so called vermin and protected species. You can legally control one, not the other. My point was that controlling vermin didn't seem to have any effect and was a waste of time. Even with a wealth of both protected and unprotected predators on my shoot, the shoot returns are as good as any other shoot. I'm not sure how my post implied that I resented bop's being protected???? The only species I trap is mink and I do that as much to protect native wildlife as released pheasants.

recedite

Like snares, Larsen traps are a lazy and a cruel way of controlling species labelled as vermin. Both should be fully outlawed.

cd07

Half-cocked wrote:

I don't resent anything. Where did you get that idea? I just differentiated between so called vermin and protected species. You can legally control one, not the other. My point was that controlling vermin didn't seem to have any effect and was a waste of time. Even with a wealth of both protected and unprotected predators on my shoot, the shoot returns are as good as any other shoot. I'm not sure how my post implied that I resented bop's being protected???? The only species I trap is mink and I do that as much to protect native wildlife as released pheasants.

Im sorry i didn't mean to sound as if i was accusing u of anything no offence intended. Im a fellow shooter and i just think all the hype about buzzards taking pheasants is ridiculous. So people see a large bird of of prey in the sky... so what! it doesn't mean its out to kill everything in sight!..far from it! Not in anyway suggesting that u feel that way its just an example of the bollox i hear at club meetings etc. I guess what im asking as a shooter myself is maybe not mention buzzards along with pheasant shoots/pens. Im guessing ure a wildlife lover like myself and and what we don't need is the kind of bad rep shooters have in the uk as regards raptor persecution.

recedite

Capercaillie wrote: »

If done on large scale it is effective, eg. at Lough Boora for the protection of grey partridge.

Would the people doing this consider themselves to be "gamekeepers"?

Birdnuts

recedite wrote: »

Would the people doing this consider themselves to be "gamekeepers"?

The project employs a full time gamekeeper

Capercaillie

recedite wrote: »

Would the people doing this consider themselves to be "gamekeepers"?

Gamekeeper but they don't shoot the game species (grey partridge)!

Capercaillie

recedite wrote: »

Like snares, Larsen traps are a lazy and a cruel way of controlling species labelled as vermin. Both should be fully outlawed.

If you need to control corvids Larsen/ladder trap your best and most effective option.

recedite

If you want to be unscrupulous, poisoning is actually far more effective.

Capercaillie

recedite wrote: »

If you want to be unscrupulous, poisoning is actually far more effective.

Poisoning crows at lough boora would kill the bird's you most want to protect. Hardly effective

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Poisoning is not only ineffective and inefficient, it is is indiscriminate with knock on implications.

Birdnuts

Brenna Ugly Checkbook wrote: »

Poisoning is not only ineffective and inefficient, it is is indiscriminate with knock on implications.

Not to mention highly illegal - I operate several Larsen traps myself and the call bird is always well taken car of and captured birds are humanly dispatched within hours(traps are checked several times a day) using an air-gun so little stress is caused. The culling is always done out of sight of the call bird.

PS: Just to mention that the Larsen Trap is indeed a very effective method of culling magpies. I known several game clubs that dispatch hundreds of birds on each of their grounds every year using Larsens

recedite

Back in 2008 I remember seeing around 15 dead crows and one or two dead gulls around one poisoned lamb carcass. Unless your partridges have turned carnivorous they are not going to take a bait like that.
Fortunately that carry-on is illegal now, and unfortunately larsen traps are not yet illegal. I'm opposed to both, but purely on the point of what is the most effective method of killing crows, the answer is still poison.

Capercaillie

recedite wrote: »

Back in 2008 I remember seeing around 15 dead crows and one or two dead gulls around one poisoned lamb carcass. Unless your partridges have turned carnivorous they are not going to take a bait like that.
Fortunately that carry-on is illegal now, and unfortunately larsen traps are not yet illegal. I'm opposed to both, but purely on the point of what is the most effective method of killing crows, the answer is still poison.

The most common crow poison that was available (now illegal) was alphachlorolose. It was available in grain form. The partridge would eat that. Are you against the larsen traps/ladder traps up in Lough Boora or the ladder traps protecting waders in Ballycroy National park?

recedite

Capercaillie wrote: »

The partridge would eat that.

Very unlikely, as its dissolved onto the meat.

Capercaillie wrote: »

Are you against the larsen traps/ladder traps up in Lough Boora or the ladder traps protecting waders in Ballycroy National park?

Yes. Why don't you start feeding them at a particular spot near a hide, and then invite a gun club to come in and shoot them? Quick and humane.

Capercaillie

recedite wrote: »

Very unlikely, as its dissolved onto the meat. Yes. Why don't you start feeding them at a particular spot near a hide, and then invite a gun club to come in and shoot them? Quick and humane.

Larsen trap/ladder traps are one of the reasons why there are grey partridge left in the Country. Lapwings doing great at same sit because of crow control.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

recedite wrote: »

Back in 2008 I remember seeing around 15 dead crows and one or two dead gulls around one poisoned lamb carcass. Unless your partridges have turned carnivorous they are not going to take a bait like that.
Fortunately that carry-on is illegal now, and unfortunately larsen traps are not yet illegal. I'm opposed to both, but purely on the point of what is the most effective method of killing crows, the answer is still poison.

Oh come on! Effective at killing birds of prey and other savaging animals maybe.