how do you as parents feel about the gorilla shot in American zoo ?

celligraphy

I 've gotten a lot of hassle over my opinions on this , the gorillia that was shot dead in the zoo in America . The four year old fell into the enclosure and zoo keepers shot the gorillia after ten minutes .

I have seen many people commenting on various social media about how outraged they are and that it was the child's fault , to arrest the parents etc ...

It was a magnificent animals but I'm one of the few who will measure a persons life above an animal what about you guys ?

gaz wac

They did the right thing in shooting it, no other option.

mordeith

The problem most people have is that it is the carelessness of the parents / zoo that led to the death of the gorilla. Putting a person's life above an animal is relative to how much of a dick the person is though. I'd take a gorilla over plenty of people I've come across!

honreal

Shoot the gorilla to save the kid then load round number 2 into the chamber and shoot the parent for letting it happen.

Gatling

Parents are solely to blame hopefully a judge makes an example out of them

TheExile1878

Tranqulise the gorilla, really shoot the parents and have the kid adopted. win/win/win

Markcheese

I'm guessing the keepers didnt just shoot the gorilla for a laugh, if they thought that they could have just tranquilised the gorilla , they would have, I doubt the fault-blame or reason the kid was in the enclosure came in to it one way or another...
And as usual internet keyboard warriors,unconnected and unaffected by the situation ,yell, roar and bleat all sorts of meanimgless crap..

Cherry Blossom

I'm not a parent but my opinion is that it should never have happened at all. The zoo had a duty of care to both the animal and the child and they should have ensured there was adequate fencing to prevent anyone getting into the enclosure. They failed terribly in their obligations to both the child and the gorilla.

Satriale

It's tragic, gorillas shouldnt be kept, in zoos, or anywhere.

tea and coffee

Satriale wrote: »

It's tragic, gorillas shouldnt be kept, in zoos, or anywhere.

What? and just let them become extinct. Super idea.

Satriale

tea and coffee wrote: »

What? and just let them become extinct. Super idea.

yeah, that's what i said :rolleyes:

nkav86

honreal wrote:

Shoot the gorilla to save the kid then load round number 2 into the chamber and shoot the parent for letting it happen.

This, but also I understand why it needed to be done but the fact that carelessness by humans forced this to be necessary is a disgrace.

tea and coffee

@Satriale: It does appear to be what you are saying. You said they shouldn't be kept anywhere. If they were left in the wild, they would become extinct because of the habitat destruction, poaching etc.

I heard the head keeper of Dublin Zoo on the radio this morning, and he sounded upset. He mentioned adrenaline, and also that the gorilla seemed to be curious rather than aggressive. I haven't seen any footage and don't know anything about the behaviour of gorillas, so I can't comment. It does seem an awful pity; is a tranquiliser not instant? Is that the reason they didn't use it?

ted1

TheExile1878 wrote: »

Tranqulise the gorilla, really shoot the parents and have the kid adopted. win/win/win

Tranquilising wasn't an option because of the the delay in it taking effect

Satriale

tea and coffee wrote: »

@Satriale: It is actually. You said they shouldn't be kept anywhere. If they were left in the wild, they would become extinct because of the habitat destruction, poaching etc.

I heard the head keeper of Dublin Zoo on the radio this morning, and he sounded upset. He mentioned adrenaline, and also that the gorilla seemed to be curious rather than aggressive. I haven't seen any footage and don't know anything about the behaviour of gorillas, so I can't comment.

No its not.

That's a different problem, it's not solved by caging and displaying them for gawpers to dangle their brats at them.

Look at the video, that gorilla is closely enough related to you that you can probably form an opinion as to his aggressiveness or lack thereof.


Edit,
Emphasis on "kept". I'll allow that policed national parks are a good idea, my point is that these animals are not there for our entertainment. Put them in a park and leave them alone.

cyning

How did the child fall in? If the bars were big enough for a child to get through and to then fall into a pit you could see how it could happen in less than a few seconds even if the parents were there...

Cherry Blossom

ted1 wrote: »

Tranquilising wasn't an option because of the the delay in it taking effect

Yes, but they had already had 10 minutes where it seems they did nothing. I don't know, maybe that's how long it took to go and get a shotgun. Surely they should have tranquiliser darts close by, especially when they have a pit people can fall into.

Dyr

How did the sprogg get into the enclosure?

He crawled in while mammy had her phone out most likely!
When I heard her shout "mammy loves you" I was like wtf!

Whilst I'm sad the gorilla was shot, it was needed to ensure the safety of that child!

seamus

Ultimately it's all situation dependent. I wouldn't generally value a human life over that of an endangered animal, but if it was my child I'd want her saved at all costs. Double standard obviously, I'm not going to defend it. But it also means I'm not going to go mad about this incident because that would be hypocritical.

There seems to have been systemic failures here. Firstly in it being possible for a person of any size to get into the enclosure. But secondly in procedures not being available for this kind of incident. Tranquilisers take time to kick in. And you don't need an angry or confused gorilla when you're worried about someone's safety.

But there must be procedures they have if a keeper's safety appears in jeopardy - attempts to distract the animal, etc etc. Were these available, were they attempted?

Obviously the parents should be on the hook for all costs involved in the incident, including the calculable cost of the death of this animal. And whatever social services should be investigating their fitness to care for their child.

Cherry Blossom

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

Yes, but they had already had 10 minutes where it seems they did nothing. I don't know, maybe that's how long it took to go and get a shotgun. Surely they should have tranquiliser darts close by, especially when they have a pit people can fall into.

The problem is how would the gorilla react when tranquilised? No one knows
It may have freaked and destroyed him.
No chances can be taken

derferjam

Anyone think of giving the gorilla food to bring it away from the child. Entice the gorilla away with its regular food and then get the child.

seamus

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

Yes, but they had already had 10 minutes where it seems they did nothing. I don't know, maybe that's how long it took to go and get a shotgun. Surely they should have tranquiliser darts close by, especially when they have a pit people can fall into.

With such a large animal, tranqs are unpredictable. In effect you end up with this brief window where the animal is - for all intents and purposes - drunk and may or may not be pissed off with the pain of a big dart in its back.

That's cool if you're just trying to capture it; seal it off, wait for the effect to overpower it and go in.
If you're trying to prevent damage or injury, you're taking a gamble. You may escalate the situation and cause more injury (or death) than if you hadn't fired the tranq.

Perhaps there's a scenario where you can overload the dart, causing near-instantaneous unconsciousness. Then you have a dying animal that may be saved rather than a dead one. But I don't know.

Seth Brundle

mordeith wrote: »

The problem most people have is that it is the carelessness of the parents / zoo that led to the death of the gorilla.

honreal wrote: »

Shoot the gorilla to save the kid then load round number 2 into the chamber and shoot the parent for letting it happen.

I'm assuming that you don't have kids.
Young kids have a habit of wandering off no matter how much you watch them.
Should the parents have assumed that the kid could have easily gotten into a enclosure with gorillas?
The zoo is as much if not more to blame than the parents. They invite the public in and have a duty of care to both the animals and the visitors (both young and old).
It's unfortunate but no more so than the incident with the fella that climbed into the lion enclosure in Santiago last week.

irishgirl19

A kid climbed a wall and and fell into an enclosure 30 years ago but the gorilla wasn't killed so no bad parenting rants.
The mother probably took her eyes off him for a minute and he was gone
How often do kids fall and hurt themselves or get into mischief if mammy or daddys back is turned for a minute.
Im sad the ape died but apparently according to the zoo,a tranquilizer wouldn't have kicked in on time and the ape was already antagonised id imagine because of everyone shouting
Its very upsetting but they couldn't take that chance of the kid dying. I think yhey done the right thing.

As for that other fker who jumped in naked to the lions den in a suicide attempt .... 3 lions dead because of that man and people seem less angry about that

Seth Brundle

irishgirl19 wrote: »

As for that other fker who jumped in naked to the lions den in a suicide attempt .... 3 lions dead because of that man and people seem less angry about that

The fella obviously has mental issues. Go easy!

duffman3833

people are going to play the blame game now instead of using this incident as a lesson. The zoo keepers need to be trained for such a situation and parents should have their kids tightly guarded in potential dangerous environments

Sapphire

Massive design flaw in the zoo. Zoos are aimed at families and every animal enclosure should be designed so that a kid cant fall in to an enclosure of an animal. By the news reports the kid squeezed through a barrier and dropped 15 foot. He should never have been able to squeeze through that. I'm all for vigilant supervision, but some sort of child-proofing should have been standard because a gap big enough for a 4yo to get through then a sheer drop of 15 foot is a ridiculous design. A child could easily get pushed in accidentally by a bigger kid or an adult.

It was unfortunate that the animal had to be shot, but I don't think there was any other way to safely get the child out. I think a lot of the video clips on the news channels have been edited but the one I saw on Liveleak was pretty scary for any parent -especially when the gorilla is dragging the boy through the water like a rag doll.

irishgirl19

kbannon wrote:

The fella obviously has mental issues. Go easy!

Ah I know but the child is a child! He didn't know what he was at ( same for the lion guy probably now that you say it). I have seen on Facebook alot of people saying the child life shouldn't have been put before the apes. I definitely don't agree with that. If it was there child it would be different

DEFTLEFTHAND

It was a horrible situation but it had to be done. Human life is more important than any other animal.

Seth Brundle

duffman3833 wrote: »

people are going to play the blame game now instead of using this incident as a lesson. The zoo keepers need to be trained for such a situation and parents should have their kids tightly guarded in potential dangerous environments

For visitors, a zoo should not be a dangerous environment!

columf

A true tragedy. But I fully understand why they used lethal force. A tranquilizer takes a number of minutes before it would subdue a animal of that size. Getting hit by a dart hurts and may have enraged the animal. The Gorilla may have been curious but a up to 400lb ape is a hell of a big strong animal and may have inadvertently hurt of killed the child such as when the ape grabbed the kids leg and dragged him through the water could have easily caused serious injury to the child. Now it could have been that with all the commotion the ape was trying to get the child away from what the ape seen as danger but this is a big Gorilla and we don't know what was going on. It cant all turn out like Jersey Zoo's Jambo (Protected a child who fell into the enclosure in 86) google Bokito he attacked and severely injured a women in 07 after escaping his enclosure. I don't agree with the vitriolic hated of the parents and saying they should be shot cop on ffs did you do what you were told at all times when were his age did you never wander away from you parents / guardian do you know anything about the Ladies situation was it just 1 child in tow or was there a few in tow. context is important folks.

Dyr

kbannon wrote: »

For visitors, a zoo should not be a dangerous environment!

Maybe if they stuffed all the animals it wouldnt be

proximity to wild animals=dangerous

Seth Brundle

irishgirl19 wrote: »

I have seen on Facebook alot of people saying the child life shouldn't have been put before the apes.

People on facebook tend to be opinionated dumbasses! Ignore them!

duffman3833

kbannon wrote: »

For visitors, a zoo should not be a dangerous environment!

Potential dangerous environment. Animals cant talk, we don't know how they are going to react. They could go mad at any stage.

Seth Brundle

Bambi wrote: »

Maybe if they stuffed all the animals it wouldnt be

proximity to wild animals=dangerous

No.
If I take my family to Dublin Zoo, should I expect the animals to be wandering about?
Should I not expect a safe visit and the worst that could happen is if I get brain freeze from eating ice cream?

Seth Brundle

duffman3833 wrote: »

Potential dangerous environment. Animals cant talk, we don't know how they are going to react. They could go mad at any stage.

Hence why the enclosures should be sufficient to separate the visitors from the animals. That's why they don't use cardboard fences!

duffman3833

kbannon wrote: »

Hence why the enclosures should be sufficient to separate the visitors from the animals. That's why they don't use cardboard fences!

yes agreed but not only that, parents should be more alert. The Zoo cant prevent all accidents/incidents. S**t happens

sReq | uTeK

had to be done, say no more.

Mother and Father should be watching more closely but kid still shouldn't be able to get in.

pwurple

Had to be done. Nevermind the intention of the gorilla. He could have easily crushed the child or just dropped him down another drop and killed him accidentally.

Well done to the staff, very hard decision to make, but it was the safest option. Difficult to do also, as they have a relationship with the animal.

As for the people calling for the parents to be strung up, I have a two small children, and I honestly can't believe that anyone with children has never seen their child do crazy unsafe things. Fall off the back of a chair and bump their head, run down a hill in the rain and fall over, try to climb wobbly pieces of furniture, squeeze into the back of wardrobes etc etc etc. I can easily see how it can happen. Children move extremely quickly, and do unexpected things. It's in their nature.

And this kind of thing just breeds the helicopter parent, who is so overprotective they have leashes and knee protectors on for a walk in the park, along with sanitiser spray on everything they touch. I know people who don't even let their kids run in case they fall over. And then the child has no idea how to play and ends up obese... oh dear, bad parenting again. Yes, there's a happy medium, but no human gets everything right all of the time.

The zoo enclosure should be built to bear this in mind, and not have a gap that children can fit through. I've seen a child fall into an enclosure once, but it was the penguins in fota, not much risk of being mauled there. That's the type of animal where it's acceptable to have an open enclosure.

honreal

kbannon wrote: »

I'm assuming that you don't have kids.
Young kids have a habit of wandering off no matter how much you watch them.
Should the parents have assumed that the kid could have easily gotten into a enclosure with gorillas?
The zoo is as much if not more to blame than the parents. They invite the public in and have a duty of care to both the animals and the visitors (both young and old).
It's unfortunate but no more so than the incident with the fella that climbed into the lion enclosure in Santiago last week.

I do infact have a young child. My post still stands.

Seth Brundle

duffman3833 wrote: »

yes agreed but not only that, parents should be more alert. The Zoo cant prevent all accidents/incidents. S**t happens

I'm not suggesting that the zoo prevent all accidents. I'm saying that if they want the public to pay to see some wild animals, they should ensure that the two can not accidentally meet!
Whatever about some suicidal fella or thick bitch climbing into the enclosures, there should be no accidental ways of getting in, whether these are faulty fences or doors left open or whatever.
As I said earlier, kids wander; it's normal. ANyone who owns kids will confirm this. They can be there one second and gone then next. That should not be an excuse for them somehow finding their way into an enclosure.

Sapphire

duffman3833 wrote: »

yes agreed but not only that, parents should be more alert. The Zoo cant prevent all accidents/incidents. S**t happens

Domestic staircase regulations state that spindles cant be any more than 100mm spacing, which is about 4 inches.

If you consider how wide the bars of the zoo barrier needed to be for a 4 year old's head to fit through (generally the body is pretty pliable at that stage) that's maybe about 7 inches. That, combined with a sheer drop of 15 foot is a ridiculous design and not a bit safe for little children. To them a gorilla is just a big teddy.

duffman3833

does anyone have a pic or link that shows the fence?

Sapphire

duffman3833 wrote: »

does anyone have a pic or link that shows the fence?

I had a google because I'd like to see it too, but I cant find anything.

Some reports are saying the boy crawled through the barrier and some bushes then fell the sheer drop into the enclosure.

Sapphire

Aha. Found one I think.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-syxeVV3ZYMM/UGtGywoFwWI/AAAAAAAADO8/73-D7A74ryg/s1600/IMG_5171.JPG

duffman3833

Sapphire wrote: »

Aha. Found one I think.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-syxeVV3ZYMM/UGtGywoFwWI/AAAAAAAADO8/73-D7A74ryg/s1600/IMG_5171.JPG

if that is the one, then how the hell did this not happen sooner, its a tiny fence

Sapphire

That's what I was thinking. Apparently it did happen before but it was the female gorillas and they seemed to understand the child was injured and cradled it until the keepers got the kid back. I cant find it now but I don't think it was Cincinatti Zoo.

Male gorilla a totally different kettle of fish I think!

Starokan

Zoo are completely at fault in my opinion - a zoo markets itself as a family day out, they have a duty of care to the animal and the visitors. A gap should not exist into an animals enclosure that a child can get through. It really is that simple for me, if the enclosure was properly enclosed this would not have occurred.

steddyeddy

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

He crawled in while mammy had her phone out most likely!
When I heard her shout "mammy loves you" I was like wtf!

Whilst I'm sad the gorilla was shot, it was needed to ensure the safety of that child!

Well actually I have to disagree. The animal was endangered . It's not child or gorilla. A very large effort has to be made to save both. It was very onesided here.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well actually I have to disagree. The animal was endangered . It's not child or gorilla. A very large effort has to be made to save both. It was very onesided here.

You can disagree all you like.
You aren't the one making a decision like this!
And the ones authorised to make that decision, made it to save the boys life!

If the decision wasn't made and the child died, I'm sure you would say well the gorilla doesn't know any better, and that's true but still can't stand by and hope the child is not killed , accidentally or otherwise