Taxi parked on corner.

JumpShivers

Is it legal for a taxi to park on a corner as shown here on the Google Maps link?
I was in Howth the other day with my OH and there was a taxi sitting on the double-yellow line on the corner. My OH drove up behind the taxi thinking that he was stopped or waiting for traffic. After a few seconds, he gave a small flash and beep to wake him up.

He still didn’t move. My OH overtook him on the right hand side and opened the window asking the driver why he’s stopped in a dangerous position. The taxi driver flew off the handle.

He said, “We’re allowed to park here from the police”, and roared profanities at my OH. Are taxis allowed to park on a corner on a double-yellow? Doesn’t seem right to me, an obstruction is an obstruction.

We got his plate number.

https://goo.gl/27VIY7

n97 mini

If he was in the car with the engine running he was stopped, not parked. This is something taxis need to do as part of their job, to collect or drop off customers.

You can stop wherever you want but you can't park wherever you want.

Lynchy747

JumpShivers wrote: »

Is it legal for a taxi to park on a corner as shown here on the Google Maps link?
I was in Howth the other day with my OH and there was a taxi sitting on the double-yellow line on the corner. My OH drove up behind the taxi thinking that he was stopped or waiting for traffic. After a few seconds, he gave a small flash and beep to wake him up.

He still didn’t move. My OH overtook him on the right hand side and opened the window asking the driver why he’s stopped in a dangerous position. The taxi driver flew off the handle.

He said, “We’re allowed to park here from the police”, and roared profanities at my OH. Are taxis allowed to park on a corner on a double-yellow? Doesn’t seem right to me, an obstruction is an obstruction.

We got his plate number.

https://goo.gl/27VIY7

No one is allowed to park on double yellow lines. He could argue that he was stopped, and not parked. This is open to interpretation.

Was his roof sign lit or did he seem to be stopped waiting for a fare? If so he could have been illegally plying for hire i.e. it is illegal for a taxi driver to ply for hire in a place other than an authorised taxi rank.

It might be wise to go to the National Transport Authority with a complaint as opposed to the Gardaí.

Either way it is a silly place to stop and your OH would have been correct to assume that the driver may have been stopped in traffic or otherwise.

EDIT: Just noticed a bar or pub the other side of the junction. He probably was waiting to tout someone as they emerged. This is illegal. As I stated.

Deagol

n97 mini wrote: »

If he was in the car with the engine running he was stopped, not parked.

You can stop wherever you want but you can't park wherever you want.

Honestly, the nonsense some people come out with...

So, by that logic people can stop in the overtaking lane of a motorway to take a call because they aren't parked just stopped??

It is illegal to stop on double yellow lines unless forced to by traffic (ie, lights, traffic queuing etc) or if loading or unloading or picking up or dropping people. Taxi drivers have no greater rights on the road than anyone else and guards could not give them permission anyway as it is outside their powers.

So, unless he was collecting or dropping a fare, he should not have been there.

n97 mini

Taxi stops in bad location shocker.

Lynchy747 wrote: »

EDIT: Just noticed a bar or pub the other side of the junction. He probably was waiting to tout someone as they emerged. This is illegal. As I stated.

He may have been pre booked.

Lynchy747

n97 mini wrote: »

Taxi stops in bad location shocker.



He may have been pre booked.

True!

n97 mini

Deagol wrote: »

Honestly, the nonsense some people come out with...

And then we get this:

Deagol wrote: »

So, by that logic people can stop in the overtaking lane of a motorway to take a call because they aren't parked just stopped??
.

Clearly the rules for motorways are specific. There's a sign on every on ramp.

Deagol

n97 mini wrote: »

And then we get this:


Clearly the rules for motorways are specific. There's a sign on every on ramp.

Substitute Naas Dual carriageway for motorway..... :rolleyes:

Sleeper12

He can stop on double yellow lines. He has up to 15 minutes but is supposed to be actively loading or unloading / picking up or dropping off. Obviously if it is deemed dangerous by the Gardai then other road traffic acts come into play.
This was on joe Duffy only 2 weeks ago. The actual story was about a pizza delivery guy getting clamped as he was delivering a pizza upstairs in an apartment building. But there is a mention of this on the show. The pod cast is there for anyone to listen if they wish.

ted1

n97 mini wrote: »

If he was in the car with the engine running he was stopped, not parked. This is something taxis need to do as part of their job, to collect or drop off customers.

You can stop wherever you want but you can't park wherever you want.

He could be done for dangerous driving .

JumpShivers

It's not the first time we've seen this happening here.

We've seen quite a few taxi drivers parked there at the same time.

beauf

The Garda aren't interested. You see taxi's parked dangerously all over the place. They just ignore them.

tricky D

It's regular in that spot as a sort of unofficial taxi rank and has been for years. The likelihood of anything being done about it is very low due to, well, Howth laws. There used to be a parking warden patrolling Howth a few years ago but the uproar from local businesses and hassled Gardaí put an end to that. Not saying it's right but little or nothing will be done about it.

Sleeper12

beauf wrote:

The Garda aren't interested. You see taxi's parked dangerously all over the place. They just ignore them.

If the Gardai don't/won't deem it dangerous then he's not breaking the law.

TheChizler

Sleeper12 wrote: »

beauf wrote:

The Garda aren't interested. You see taxi's parked dangerously all over the place. They just ignore them.

If the Gardai don't/won't deem it dangerous then he's not breaking the law.

Since when has the Garda 's opinion on the law had any influence on the actual law?

Cocoon

JumpShivers wrote: »

It's not the first time we've seen this happening here.

We've seen quite a few taxi drivers parked there at the same time.

Then why did you pull up behind him?

murphaph

Assuming there weren't also clearway signs then stopping on the double yellows would be legal. Not necessarily sensible but taxi drivers do the stupidest things for a fare as most of us know and yeah, they do think they own the road and they're like that the world over.

Charles Babbage

It is remarkable that the class of driver who are allowed drive other people around are allowed routinely act in a delinquent manner.

JumpShivers

Cocoon wrote: »

Then why did you pull up behind him?

We've seen taxis stopping and parking various other dangerous positions in Howth. It didn't dawn on us at the time that this taxi was also parked here.

By overtaking him on the right, I had to drive on the hatched area. Obviously illegal.

VincePP

Whatever about the rights or wrongs of the taxi, the op certainly has no right to question the taxi and deserved the response.

If the op had an issue he can report it. But to "berate" the driver just causes more problems and could be construed as threatening behaviour and that would be taken more seriously than a minor parking issue.

VincePP

JumpShivers wrote: »

By overtaking him on the right, I had to drive on the hatched area. Obviously illegal.

Eh? Seems you have very poor knowledge of driving.

Guy:Incognito

n97 mini wrote: »

If he was in the car with the engine running he was stopped, not parked. This is something taxis need to do as part of their job, to collect or drop off customers.

You can stop wherever you want but you can't park wherever you want.

Since youre not allowed cross solid white lines ( and youre not allowed park opposite them even though a lot dont seem to know that) what happens then? You just sit there behind him indefinitely till he decides to move on?

n97 mini

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Since youre not allowed cross solid white lines ( and youre not allowed park opposite them even though a lot dont seem to know that) what happens then? You just sit there behind him indefinitely till he decides to move on?

Is that what you'd do?

n97 mini

Deagol wrote: »

Substitute Naas Dual carriageway for motorway..... :rolleyes:

Do people never pull in on that road? Or are you just trying to find an exception to what I said, regardless of how irrelevant it is to this thread?

VincePP

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Since youre not allowed cross solid white lines ( and youre not allowed park opposite them even though a lot dont seem to know that) what happens then? You just sit there behind him indefinitely till he decides to move on?

I really can't believe that there are people driving that are that lacking in understanding of driving - but it does in a way explain the amount of poor drivers on the road.

Just to be clear.

There is no issue whatever in crossing an unbroken white line or being in a hatched area in order to pass an obstruction on the road.

Similarly, if you deem it is safe to do so, you may overtake a tractor on an unbroken white line

A lot if basic driver training is needed by some people.

Pro Hoc Vice

VincePP wrote: »

Whatever about the rights or wrongs of the taxi, the op certainly has no right to question the taxi and deserved the response.

If the op had an issue he can report it. But to "berate" the driver just causes more problems and could be construed as threatening behaviour and that would be taken more seriously than a minor parking issue.

Where from the OP did you get that the OP's partner acted in a manner that could be constructed as threatening.

Pro Hoc Vice

Lynchy747 wrote: »

No one is allowed to park on double yellow lines. He could argue that he was stopped, and not parked. This is open to interpretation.

Was his roof sign lit or did he seem to be stopped waiting for a fare? If so he could have been illegally plying for hire i.e. it is illegal for a taxi driver to ply for hire in a place other than an authorised taxi rank.

It might be wise to go to the National Transport Authority with a complaint as opposed to the Gardaí.

Either way it is a silly place to stop and your OH would have been correct to assume that the driver may have been stopped in traffic or otherwise.

EDIT: Just noticed a bar or pub the other side of the junction. He probably was waiting to tout someone as they emerged. This is illegal. As I stated.

Parking is clearly defined in the RTA's

In the 1962 Act it is defined as

“park”, in relation to a vehicle, means keep or leave stationary, and cognate words shall be construed accordingly;

The important but is stationary.

Sleeper12

TheChizler wrote:

Since when has the Garda 's opinion on the law had any influence on the actual law?

This is a very strange statement.

If the Gardai believe it's not dangerous then who do you suppose would caution, give ticket or bring to court. Their opinion is very important.
As I said earlier its not illegal to stop on double yellow lines. The taxi has 15 minutes before it becomes illegal.

The 2 private cars parked in the loading bay across the road in the Google street view an the other hand are parked illegally. They are dangerously parked. They are blocking the loading bay. This leaves trucks, vans, lorries and other commercial vehicles no other choice but to double park on a busy main road at a T junction.

AlekSmart

beauf wrote: »

The Garda aren't interested. You see taxi's parked dangerously all over the place. They just ignore them.

And,it's not just the Howth Gardai who are so nonchalant about les Taxi's....;)

Take a stroll along O Connell St any evening after rush hour and watch in stupified amazement,as a constant stream of Taxi fellows shunt their vehicles up onto the footpath between Bachelors Walk and Abbey Street to sup coffee and doughnuts in Supermac's.

It's now obviously a tradition,so much so,that even with the LUAS BXD works which disrupt every other group of roadusers,our intrepid Taxi wallahs continue as if everything is,as it always was...:o

At this point,the Garda option is provenly useless,as the force is either unable,or perhaps more worryingly,unwilling to make even a token gesture of enforcement.

The answer is VERY simple,a slight amendment of the Road Traffic Acts to allow for the use of ANPR camera evidence for this offence,then put up a sign reading "ON KERB TAXI PARKING AVAILABLE - €200 + 2 PENALTY POINTS"....then wait and see how observant the fraternity actually is.

ANPR is the way to go,with so many of these type of offences which have now become "aceptable" in Dublin's current maladministered state.
It would also,as a side benefit,operate as a highly efficient and automatic Taxi-Regulator without the need for actual Garda manpower to attempt the task ?

In the meantime it is a pertinent question to ask..."What exactly does the "City Manager " do for his days work ??

foggy_lad

n97 mini wrote: »

Taxi stops in bad location shocker.



He may have been pre booked.

surely he should be parked in a safer more suitable location if pre-booked?

Sleeper12

AlekSmart wrote:

And,it's not just the Howth Gardai who are so nonchalant about les Taxi's....

AlekSmart wrote:

Take a stroll along O Connell St any evening after rush hour and watch in stupified amazement,as a constant stream of Taxi fellows shunt their vehicles up onto the footpath between Bachelors Walk and Abbey Street to sup coffee and doughnuts in Supermac's.

AlekSmart wrote:

It's now obviously a tradition,so much so,that even with the LUAS BXD works which disrupt every other group of roadusers,our intrepid Taxi wallahs continue as if everything is,as it always was...

AlekSmart wrote:

At this point,the Garda option is provenly useless,as the force is either unable,or perhaps more worryingly,unwilling to make even a token gesture of enforcement.

AlekSmart wrote:

The answer is VERY simple,a slight amendment of the Road Traffic Acts to allow for the use of ANPR camera evidence for this offence,then put up a sign reading "ON KERB TAXI PARKING AVAILABLE - €200 + 2 PENALTY POINTS"....then wait and see how observant the fraternity actually is.

AlekSmart wrote:

ANPR is the way to go,with so many of these type of offences which have now become "aceptable" in Dublin's current maladministered state. It would also,as a side benefit,operate as a highly efficient and automatic Taxi-Regulator without the need for actual Garda manpower to attempt the task ?

AlekSmart wrote:

In the meantime it is a pertinent question to ask..."What exactly does the "City Manager " do for his days work ??

You are missing the point here. It is NOT illegal for him to stop on double yellow lines.

Guy:Incognito

VincePP wrote: »

I really can't believe that there are people driving that are that lacking in understanding of driving - but it does in a way explain the amount of poor drivers on the road.

Just to be clear.

There is no issue whatever in crossing an unbroken white line or being in a hatched area in order to pass an obstruction on the road.

Similarly, if you deem it is safe to do so, you may overtake a tractor on an unbroken white line

A lot if basic driver training is needed by some people.

The rotr refer to "an emergency" or for access. Does an ignorant taxi driver constitute an emergency? I doubt a tractor does just because you dont like driving slowly

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You are missing the point here. It is NOT illegal for him to stop on double yellow lines.

The hatch markings are effectively an island (hatched marks only to be crossed in an emergency, again, not for ignorant taxi driver creating an obstruction). So if the council make them a kerbed island, is it still ok to stop there? Hes blocking the whole left turning lane.

percy212

Is it ok for him to react in such a hostile fashion to the OP? Absolutely not, but Taxi drivers all over the country seem to think they are living in some kind of wild west scenario.

Sleeper12

percy212 wrote:

Is it ok for him to react in such a hostile fashion to the OP? Absolutely not, but Taxi drivers all over the country seem to think they are living in some kind of wild west scenario.

Someone sticks there head out the window telling me I'm wrong when I'm not I tell them what they can do with themselves. You can't just go around shouting out of car Windows and expect respect back. Life doesn't work that way. If you feel car is in the wrong take a photo and bring it to the Gardai

percy212

That attitude is exactly what I am talking about. Taxi drivers seem to think it's ok to lose the plot during normal interaction with the public. If the driver was in the right, all he needed to do was shrug and say "call the cops if you want". They all think they are some kind of gangster. Fat gangsters who smell of chinese food.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Someone sticks there head out the window telling me I'm wrong when I'm not I tell them what they can do with themselves. You can't just go around shouting out of car Windows and expect respect back. Life doesn't work that way. If you feel car is in the wrong take a photo and bring it to the Gardai

n97 mini

foggy_lad wrote: »

surely he should be parked in a safer more suitable location if pre-booked?

Sleeper12

percy212 wrote:

That attitude is exactly what I am talking about. Taxi drivers seem to think it's ok to lose the plot during normal interaction with the public. If the driver was in the right, all he needed to do was shrug and say "call the cops if you want". They all think they are some kind of gangster. Fat gangsters who smell of chinese food.

Some people who don't know the rules of the road poking their head out the window perhaps should be arrested. She seems to have been shooting her mouth off about the taxi being in wrong and she doesn't even know the rules of the road herself.
She had no right to tell him off. If she kept her head in the car with the window up everything would be fine. She starts trouble and its the taxi drivers fault. I don't get your logic at all I'm afraid.
I'm not a taxi driver. Just in case you thought I was

Cienciano

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Some people who don't know the rules of the road poking their head out the window perhaps should be arrested. She seems to have been shooting her mouth off about the taxi being in wrong and she doesn't even know the rules of the road herself.
She had no right to tell him off. If she kept her head in the car with the window up everything would be fine. She starts trouble and its the taxi drivers fault. I don't get your logic at all I'm afraid.
I'm not a taxi driver. Just in case you thought I was

She should be arrested? Are you for real?
Taxi driver stopped in a stupid place, simple as this. Personally I would have given a good beep and drove around, I wouldn't have said anything. But to be arrested for questioning his road sense beggars belief!

hognef

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You are missing the point here. It is NOT illegal for him to stop on double yellow lines.

It IS illegal to stop in a junction (http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/parking/no-parking_disc-parking.html):

Even if you do not see a particular 'no parking' sign or yellow line on the road, you must not stop or park:

- within 5 metres of a road junction unless parking spaces are clearly marked

Sleeper12

hognef wrote:

It IS illegal to stop in a junction (

Not at all. Taxis have leeway because they have to set down. Believe it or not taxis do have special treatment on our roads. Some of the rules of the road the rest of us have to live with taxis are exempt from. They can even double park to pick up and set down. They can stop in the middle of the road and at junctions (in this it was a minor road teeing onto a main road)

OPs oh was the aggressor here IMO.

hognef

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not at all. Taxis have leeway because they have to set down. Believe it or not taxis do have special treatment on our roads. Some of the rules of the road the rest of us have to live with taxis are exempt from. They can even double park to pick up and set down. They can stop in the middle of the road and at junctions (in this it was a minor road teeing onto a main road)

OPs oh was the aggressor here IMO.

Of course they have to set down. That doesn't necessarily mean they can legally do it anywhere they like though. Where in legislation are taxis' "leeway" described?

I'm not commenting on who was the aggressor.

Sleeper12

hognef wrote:

I'm not commenting on who was the aggressor.

There's no need. The aggressor is the one that starts it. OPs oh decided to give taxi driver an earful. Here's the kicker, she only could have done this as she's overtaking the taxi. Now how dangerous is that??

jockeyboard

I know this area and there is always a line of many taxis parked here so i am sure garda in howth know about it.

VincePP

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Where from the OP did you get that the OP's partner acted in a manner that could be constructed as threatening.

You really think the OP's partner rolled down the window and said "excuse me sir, is there a reason you are parked here"

Pull the other one - the op is indignant enough to take taxi number, go to the trouble of getting an image from google maps and then whine on boards about it and at the same time show that they don't understand many aspects of driving by saying that it was illegal from them to drive though the hatched area to over take an obstruction on the road.

Also, if it happened the way the op said, then the op was not paying atention to their driving as it would have been obvious the taxi was stopped and dreadfully easy to manouevour around the taxi wihout any issue whatever. Hence by the fact the OP stop to "talk" to the taxi would suggest the OP deceided to ake the law into his own hand and shout at the axi and the taxi gave a well deserved bollocking back.

Remember there are always two sides to an argument and you'll never hear both sides from one side.

To he OP - it is NONE of you business how other people drive - if you have an issue, report it, but don't act the bollox and start berating someone based on you non knowledge of driving regualtions.

Pro Hoc Vice

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not at all. Taxis have leeway because they have to set down. Believe it or not taxis do have special treatment on our roads. Some of the rules of the road the rest of us have to live with taxis are exempt from. They can even double park to pick up and set down. They can stop in the middle of the road and at junctions (in this it was a minor road teeing onto a main road)

OPs oh was the aggressor here IMO.

Can you point to the legislation that allows a taxi to do as you say.

Pro Hoc Vice

The 1997 regs on double yellow lines

36. (1) Save as otherwise provided for in these Regulations and subject to article 5, a vehicle shall not be parked on a public road at a location, in a manner or for a purpose referred to in this article.

A vehicle shall not be parked—

( a ) on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 008 [double yellow lines] has been provided;

( c ) within 5 metres of a road junction;

There are exceptions
5. (1) These Regulations shall apply save where compliance is not possible as a result of an obstruction to traffic or pedestrians or because of an emergency situation confronting a road user which could not reasonably have been expected or anticipated.

( e ) a prohibition on the parking of a vehicle imposed by article 36(2)(a) shall not apply to a vehicle parked while goods are being loaded in or on to it or unloaded from it, for a period not exceeding thirty minutes from the commencement of the parking.

(3) A restriction on the parking of a vehicle imposed by article 37 shall not apply to

( a ) a vehicle to which paragraphs (a),(b),(c) or (d) of sub-article (2) applies;

( b ) a vehicle parked at the edge of a roadway while a passenger is entering or leaving it; or

( c ) a vehicle parked while goods are being loaded in or on to it or unloaded from it, for a period not exceeding thirty minutes from the commencement of the parking.

Parking regulated by regulation 37 does give an exemption to large public service vehicles.

Sleeper12

Pro Hoc Vice wrote:

Can you point to the legislation that allows a taxi to do as you say.

There are separate by laws covering taxis. There are by laws that allows 15 minutes stopped on double yellow lines if actively loading and unloading. As I said earlier this was all dealt with on the Joe Duffy show about 2 weeks ago. This show is still available on podcast if you really are interested.

Pro Hoc Vice

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There are separate by laws covering taxis. There are by laws that allows 15 minutes stopped on double yellow lines if actively loading and unloading. As I said earlier this was all dealt with on the Joe Duffy show about 2 weeks ago. This show is still available on podcast if you really are interested.

Yes the regulations I posted allow 30 mins for loading unloading, stopped sitting in the car is neither loading or unloading is in my opinion not allowed I have had posted the regulations if someone is making the claim that the taxi driver was correct in stopping a car at a turn on double yellow for a period of time with no sign of passenger or cargo then please state the law that gives him power to do so.

If Joe Duffy told me anything about the law I would double check. No judge will go with the Joe Duffy told me it was ok defence.

foggy_lad

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There are separate by laws covering taxis. There are by laws that allows 15 minutes stopped on double yellow lines if actively loading and unloading. As I said earlier this was all dealt with on the Joe Duffy show about 2 weeks ago. This show is still available on podcast if you really are interested.

Sitting waiting on some potential passenger to emerg from a pub across the road is not actively loading or unloading passengers, it sounds a lot like taxis are operating an illegal rank at that spot.

GM228

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There are separate by laws covering taxis. There are by laws that allows 15 minutes stopped on double yellow lines if actively loading and unloading. As I said earlier this was all dealt with on the Joe Duffy show about 2 weeks ago. This show is still available on podcast if you really are interested.

No there are bye laws for Taxi Stands/Ranks only, not Taxis in general.

Councils can only make bye laws regarding Taxis stands as per the Taxi Regulation Acts.

Fingal had draft Taxi stand bye laws in 2013 but they only covered proposed Grove Road and New Street ranks in Malahide. Nothing for Howth or any other Fingal areas.

I've listed where Taxis can/can't stop previously:-

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97825817&postcount=39

GM228 wrote: »

A taxi can "park" to pick up/drop off more or less anywhere a vehicle can normally stop, they can also park to pick/up drop off in a bus lane and on single yellow lines at all times, however a taxi is not permitted to use a contra-flow bus lane.

They can't however park up to await a fare (other than a pre-booked fare and then subject to normal parking restrictions), at anywhere other than a taxi rank. They also can't pick up a fare at the airport unless they have a permit to do so.

Something to note, whilst a taxi with a fare is allowed to use a bus lane, a taxi without a fare is also allowed to use a bus lane, but only if going to a pre-booked fare.

Hackneys are required to follow the normal rules of the road and taxi exemptions do not apply to them.

Hootanany

What are the laws pertaining to them parking in Loading Bays?