Neighbors complaining about noise

Birdyblue

Me and my boyfriend have been renting an apt for more than a year now. We had no parties and no loud music, no guests, nothing of the sort, just sometimes maybe loud laughs or some movie on high volume, usually when something like that happened I'd tone it down because i've been living in apartments my whole life and know how such noise carries.

Well some weeks ago new neighbors moved into the apt downstairs. We got a "letter" in our mailbox supposedly from a neighbor asking us to quiet down a bit. Letter was printed and not signed, nor did it say which neighbors we were bothering. This letter said they could hear TV, washing machine after 10 pm. Which was weird because we don't have a TV (well I suppose it could be the computer) and literally in over 1 year I have not washed anything at late hours (reason is simple: I wash the mornings when weather seems fine simply because if I don't dry clothes during the day, they get this really nasty smell).

We started watching movies barely hearing anything, reading subtitles instead.

Few days after, our neighbor from downstairs knocks at our door and talks to my boyfriend, she's pleading and sounds quite desperate. Apparently our water pump doesn't let her sleep and for 2 weeks or so she hasn't been able to sleep at all.
Of course we feel for her and start wondering what could be wrong with our water pump. We can't exactly hear it when the only thing separating us from it is a wooden door,

Our neighbor suggests we put a switch on the pump and turn it off at night. We show some concern because we are young and never had to deal with these things, we didn't know how this worked. She said we wouldn't have any problems except shower won't have enough pressure. At this point she already got our phone number and our landlord's too.

Our landlord talks to them and we all agree to put this switch and turn it off at 10 pm. So we do, except now our toilet has absolutely no water supply. We don't go to sleep at 10 pm and found it unacceptable to not have water in the toilet at least until 12. So some days we turned it off later, but always before 11 or 12.

Every time we turned it off later than 10 we got text messages on our phone that night or first thing in the morning. We started to get really annoyed by it. At first my boyfriend answered saying we need water int he toilet at least till 11 a clock. They agreed for 11 at some point, but then started to message us again at 10.

They sugegsted us another plumber to come check the pump. He came, he checked, he put some rubbers on it and said was okay. Again we got messages at night to turn off the pump.

Some other night we needed water on that toilet for a bit later, and the next morning we got a message from them saying that other neighbor also complained (to them!) that they hear a washing machine (?!) and they told them it was us and these neighbors consider writing to the management because their kid can't sleep.

To me, this situation is very suspicious. The thing with the unsigned letter is weird enough to make me wonder if it's the same neighbors from downstairs who try to make it sound like everybody is complaining about us. I also can't see why a neighbor would complain to them about us and not simply knock our door and tell us.
Our landlord, after being contacted by them, told us he is very sorry and had no clue the water pump made such noise (he's been living here before) but there's not much he can do about it and cant soundproof the whole building.

I've been very stressed about this, I don't want to cause any problems, especially for our landlord, who's been very nice to us. I've been trying to research the issue because I find it absolutely ridiculous that someone can tell me WHEN to not use my toilet! But i don't find anything related to "acceptable domestic noise" or anything of the sort, related to noise coming from appliances that ensure a basic level of hygiene or so. Besides, I repeat, we barely hear this water pump at all, in our own apt, staying just behind the door.
For example, I found regulations from Australia that present a full list of acceptable appliances, the water pump and heating appliances are all exceptions from noise time limitations. I need to find some similar information for Ireland, if it even exists.

athtrasna

Have you offered to sit in the downstairs apartment to test it yourself? Seems like a reasonable way to prove if the neighbour is lying?

05eaftqbrs9jlh

I feel your pain because we rent too and having unruly neighbours complaining can make life hard for even the most easy-going of people. Obviously in close quarters everyone needs to have respect for everyone else, but a degree of tolerance and compromise is always preferable to animosity.

Did the landlord ever get complaints about the noises before she moved in? The problem is with her not being able to deal with the sound. You've been more than accommodating with her to date and she's still complaining. You've obviously had to draw the line at compromising your sanitation, so there's nothing else to be done unless the landlord succeeds in reducing the noise. She may have to move out, but it's not up to you to say it. I'd just wait.

Grab All Association

Get a cheap inexpensive nanny type camera or camcorder with audio recording. Start recording at 10pm sit back and live/enjoy your flat. If she comes knocking at your door tell her to f**k off and close the door on her. You'll have the proof the noise isn't coming from your apartment.

Birdyblue

I wanted to go check myself what the level of noise is. But by the time we concluded that this was needed, there was already some tension between us and I feel like doing so now would only look more intrusive. Last night for example, at 10:00 we got angry knocks in the wall (well... floor actually). Would it still be appropriate to request checking the noise?

Our landlord hasn't had previous complaints. But the neighbors told us that their landlord had warned them that water pumps could get quite noisy.
The thing is there are house rules in our building. And indeed they state that any noise should stop after 10 pm. I'd have to check again the exact wording, but I'm still wondering about the toilet. I can't stop flushing the toilet after 10 pm.

punisher5112

Op 1st mistake was giving out phone number.

This is ridiculous apartments depending on build quality can be noisey.

They really need to consider moving as they sound like the type that should move to a house on it's own.


Contact you landlord and explain it's now impacting on your life, privacy and right to be left alone in your home.


Crazy it's been entertained

Birdyblue

I feared as much. Giving the phone number was a mistake we will never ever repeat. But she was talking so much and being so persistent it was hard to refuse at that time. And it seemed reasonable since she was the one so affected.
I fear that switch was also a mistake. Before the switch, it could be blamed on the pump solely. Now, it's us who refuse to turn it off.

Pawwed Rig

You can only act in a reasonable manner to a certain degree which you have done. At this stage I would leave it with the owners to sort out. Maybe apartment living is not for this person.

punisher5112

Only way is cut contact and ignore.

That person needs to move. I would understand a problem if you were drilling and dancing and pumping out music but seriously they sound mad.

Contact your own landlord and state this. You can't take it anymore also consider change of number.

Was pump replaced? They can get loud as older but it's part of an apartment water system as pressure is so bad.

Start recording them banging and the likes and turn it around on them. They keep waking you banging their ceiling....

_Kaiser_

To be honest I think you've been more than accommodating but these people downstairs are being unrealistic and unreasonable.

I live in an apartment... the walls are like paper. I can hear the neighbours upstairs walking around, washing machines, even the toilets flushing. I also have a ridiculously noisy water pump that I think is faulty as it tends to kick in and out every few seconds when running a tap (the estate agent sent two lads that were supposedly plumbers but did f&ck all). As a side note the builders have recently put up an identical block beside us and I'm very tempted sometimes to ask if they did a better job this time! If it wasn't cheap, in a quiet estate and convenient for the motorway I'd probably have moved already.

Anyway as a result I generally don't flush the toilets after 11 and don't have a shower before 7am but equally I don't complain about the couple upstairs. It's not that someone has complained but I do it as a courtesy... but that's as far as I'd go. Anyone who expects more than that shouldn't be living in an apartment.

groovyg

Op was there anybody living in the apartment before these new neighbours moved in? It seems very strange you have been living there over a year with no complaints and now suddenly ye are getting complaints about noise. You have to live in the apartment, watching a film with sub titles on just to keep noise down is just silly.

Birdyblue

We too think they are not used to living in an apartment block. They did say they lived in a house before.
What I really baffles me is that I don't hear any of our neighbors. It's true we live on the top floor, there's nobody "upstairs" to see how it feels. But our neighbors next door have small children. I hear them cry the moment they open doors and get in the hallways, but I never so much as heard a voice or a TV or a washing machine or anything at all through walls. The other guy next door sometimes has his fire alarm triggered by nothing apparently and it sometimes goes on for 12 hours, it happened 2 or 3 times this past year. We hear it, but we could still sleep on it.

I read countless posts on similar complaints. Some were sayign wooden floors are the problem, but we have carpets and no wood whatsoever.

i'm so curious to find out what they hear. they wrote us the noise was "horrible", we figured it was an exaggeration because they were trying to get us to react in a way, it seems to have worked for our landlord who sounded very apologetic.

@groovyg We don't know this, but it's a good point to find out.

I'm also starting to consider asking the other neighbors if they hear anything from us and just gather more info. Would that be appropriate?

punisher5112

Keep to yourself don't go liking for trouble do not ask any other neighbours unless in passing.

It be nice to see if they are complaining about others also.

mada82

You aren't doing anything wrong. You've tried to accommodate them but it's negatively affecting you now.

Maybe it's best to let the landlords deal with it and cut direct contact with the neighbour.

This apartment doesn't suit your neighbour. It's their problem.

handlemaster

Block the neighbours number on your phone. Any issue tell hér to contact landlord.

the_pen_turner

you are going above and beyond for these people.
I would not have put in the switch.. now the problem is you not turning it off.


I would sit down and write a letter to them stating the issues they have and the impact they are having on your life.

keep the tone on the topic of how both parties can come to a solution to this because both are suffering.

tell them you want it sorted as well as them.

when all the facts are written down both parties need to sit down with both land lords.



then tell them that any further reporting of the issue needs to be to both landlords

jcd5971

Birdyblue wrote:

I feared as much. Giving the phone number was a mistake we will never ever repeat. But she was talking so much and being so persistent it was hard to refuse at that time. And it seemed reasonable since she was the one so affected. I fear that switch was also a mistake. Before the switch, it could be blamed on the pump solely. Now, it's us who refuse to turn it off.

Hate to be rude but tell her **** off.
Go to your landlord get him to agree that not having water for a toilet is not on, show your willing to switch it at 12 which is fine IMHO.
once your clear with your landlord and he knows it's not you making excess noise by partying etc your golden.
Then tell this woman to stop texting you, block her number and live your life.

My advice is from living above a troublesome neighbor myself for over a year. Once you toughen up she'll cop on.

foggy_lad

Birdyblue wrote: »

I feared as much. Giving the phone number was a mistake we will never ever repeat. But she was talking so much and being so persistent it was hard to refuse at that time. And it seemed reasonable since she was the one so affected.
I fear that switch was also a mistake. Before the switch, it could be blamed on the pump solely. Now, it's us who refuse to turn it off.

She sounds like a bit of a crackpot to be honest. Maybe she suffers from her nerves or tinnitus but apartment living is definitely not for her!

You should not have entertained her nonsense at all and made your own co plaint to the landlord about her. You can still tell your landlord that you will have to look for somewhere else if her harassment continues. Do ye have the same landlord?

nikkibikki

Look, you've done more than enough. Tell her to get her landlord to soundproof her apartment. There's no more you can do.

Spanish Eyes

Buy her a set of earplugs.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

foggy_lad wrote: »

She sounds like a bit of a crackpot to be honest. Maybe she suffers from her nerves or tinnitus but apartment living is definitely not for her!

You should not have entertained her nonsense at all and made your own co plaint to the landlord about her. You can still tell your landlord that you will have to look for somewhere else if her harassment continues. Do ye have the same landlord?

They shouldn't have to move out. I wouldn't recommend voicing any sentiments that might allude to the idea that I'm willing to move out.

Canadel

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Buy her a set of earplugs.

Advise her to buy a set of earplugs.

face1990

There's nothing more you can do, OP.

Let her contact the respective landlords if she's still unhappy.

jopax

Hi birdyblue,

Absolutely disgraceful the way things have developed over this.
I have lived in semi d houses & have been on the receiving end of late loud music, parties and deliberate banging & shouting/screaming at all hours.
I wish I had neighbours that are as good as yee have been.
You have been above & beyond reasonable here, granted there is noise but it is a toilet flushing & normal living noises.
Surely you are entitled to live without being scrutinised.
Loud music & blaring telly/films, yes they can be turned down, and that is showing respect for your neighbours.
I think you will have to try to talk to your landlord again, to see if he will side with you on this, it is like yee are been victimized here not the complainer.
Like other posters have said, they should move out if they are so sensitive to apartment living.
Stand your ground, I feel like yee have been very compromising & decent here.

Sam Kade

Some people like to complain but we are only getting one side of the story.

Sleeper12

Not sure if your landlord wants to spend any money but you can get quiet pumps.

Shop40

Neither you nor your neighbour are at fault here, it's the fault of the shoddy boomtime (I'm guessing) builder!

Anyone will turn a bit nuts if they can't sleep at night. I used to live in a studio flat where my neighbour left his bathroom light/fan on all night long. It was very noisy and to be honest after a few nights I had to go asking him to turn it off at night. Was I an annoying neighbour? I bet I was! But everyone needs their sleep!!!

The only option here is for the downstairs folk to either use earplugs (which works for me and I now live next door to a pub:)) or move, because as others have said they aren't suited to (Irish) apartment living.

the_pen_turner

I wonder is the pump creating some kind of vibration along the pipe work that is coming up through downstairs.

I think you need to work out if there really is an unbearable noise or if the people are too sensitive.

Dial Hard

Sam Kade wrote:

Some people like to complain but we are only getting one side of the story.

The nature of Boards is that we generally only ever get one side of the story. Most people are willing to take OPs at face value.

the_pen_turner

Dial Hard wrote: »

The nature of Boards is that we generally only ever get one side of the story. Most people are willing to take OPs at face value.

that's the problem with internet forums.
we can only go by the facts the OP tells us and have to take them as fact.


a few years ago I was reading on a tiling forum and this woman posted about a problem she had with her tiler. he refuse to use the tiles for some reason. I think it was a problem with the backing on mosaics . all was going great for the OP until the tiler popped in . he was one of the main posters on the forum and had thousands of posts to his name.

there was a big debate about it
turns out he was right.

OP was happy . tiler was vindicated .
it was a great thread because both sides were represented fiarly

niley

How can it possibly be the water pump that's keeping the neighbour awake at night? All water pumps I know will only be active when a tap is opened, or while a toilet is refilling, so unless you're awake all night yourselves cleaning the dirty dishes/going to the toilet/having showers, the lady down stairs is looking in the wrong place for the source of the disturbance.
How many other apartments are in the same building? The way most apartment buildings are built, for maximum profit and not for the comfort of the residents, it's possible the sound could be travelling from anywhere in the whole complex.
I think you've been more than reasonable in the actions you've taken, the only thing extra you could do is make sure the pump is not coming on of it's own accord, which usually happens because of a dripping tap, or other slow leak somewhere.

Sarn

It would be interesting to see if the neighbour still had problems if you went away for the weekend. Fortunately our block is fairly well built but it can be hard to place where some of the noise is coming from. Maybe they are picking up on some of the other neighbour's noise?

Satriale

the_pen_turner wrote: »

that's the problem with internet forums.
we can only go by the facts the OP tells us and have to take them as fact.


a few years ago I was reading on a tiling forum and this woman posted about a problem she had with her tiler. he refuse to use the tiles for some reason. I think it was a problem with the backing on mosaics . all was going great for the OP until the tiler popped in . he was one of the main posters on the forum and had thousands of posts to his name.

there was a big debate about it
turns out he was right.

OP was happy . tiler was vindicated .
it was a great thread because both sides were represented fiarly

Cant find the thread, but didnt it happen recently as well with a car accident (or a close call maybe)? OP posts a story and the other dude popped in after a few pages. Always good to get the two sides.

I'm leaning towards the OP being in the right here though, at the very least, bad building isnt his/her fault.

Birdyblue

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and advice. To me it was really important to also understand how people see things like these. I'm not Irish and some things I (we) deal with for the first time ever. Like specific house rules or even these apartment buildings using water pumps.
I realize I am personally accustomed to a rather high level of noise coming from neighbors (not that it happens here, but it's how i've been living). Maybe I don't realize how loud it gets sometimes, but I do know how it is to not be able to sleep because of excessive noise. I am genuinely concerned about not making my neighbors life hard, troubles is the least thing we would want because we like it here. But I also feel we have improved and compromised and I feel I need to draw the line at my toilet's need to be flushed before 11 or 12 in some cases.

I know the house rules about 10 pm. I read tenant's rights and domestic noise regulations. And what we have concluded now by also reading around here is, basically:

1. our neighbors have the right to have a quiet time for sleep/rest
2. we as tenants also have the right to have "sanitary facilities supplied with hot and cold water"

So the question still standing is whose rights prevail?
I also understand that if our pump really has some problems (if it's too loud then maybe it's broken?) it is the landlord's responsibility to ensure it's proper functioning. So then, this means I have no obligation to change anything further until my landlord fixes the pump? there is also the fact that we had 2 plumbers "fixing" it already, one sent my our landlord, the other recommended by my neighbors.

Just to be clear, I will still switch off my pump at or at about 11 pm.
But then again comes the question: if something were to happen one night and I would need the water pump, would it be okay to temporarily switch it on?

My priority is to find out the level of noise my neighbor hears. Since it's just close above the entrance door, I think I should be able to hear it from the hallway downstairs in a similar way that it hears from her apartment.

On a side note, now that we are concerned with this, we started to pay more attention to sounds coming from our neighbors. I realized there are some other pumps around, we can barely barely hear them but by the sound and duration they have i think they are just the same as ours. Now the thing is these pumps do not "start" only when you have the water flowing for some reason. Sometimes we don't use the water but the pump still goes on for 2 seconds or so. We've been told by the plumber that it does that when it detects a low level of pressure (inside the pump?) and it basically switches on to regulate the pressure. The moment we switch it off from our new switch, it stops going on randomly.

Sorry for the block of text.

P. Breathnach

Birdyblue, I admire your wish to accommodate the demands of a neighbour who might be unreasonable.

Frankly, I don't think you should have to switch off your water pump at all. You are entitled to have water pressure in the middle of the night should you want to use the toilet.

I suspect the problem is the quality of construction. Many Irish apartments are poorly soundproofed. I get the impression that what is happening is that you are behaving properly, but the building is not. It's really a problem for your neighbours and their landlord to tackle. That said, if you want to help a bit, respect is due to you.

[Pumps usually do have pressure switches and can kick in briefly to maintain pressure.]

Eric Cartman

I think this is madness and comes up time and time again. How anyone expects to live in an apartment in Ireland without there being some noise is beyond me.

Now I'm not for tenants partying till dawn etc… but if you are the type of person who the hum from a shower / water pump / footsteps / doors opening would wake you up then you shouldn't be living in an apartment in Ireland, the country soundproofing forgot.

Sleeper12

OP I'd love to have you as a neighbour. You seem to be very considerat

Lantus

As others have said block number on phones now. You have no obligations to this person. The fact you have tried to be nice has just played into her believe that people will just do whatever she asks.

IMO having my toilet disconnected at certain times is unacceptable. The building was designed like this, that's nothing to do with you. You sound like quiet people and there is no evidence except for the unsubstantiated opinion of one person that the noise is related to you or your apartment.

You and your landlord have jumped through hoops without asking any questions or gathering evidence. Stop doing this or you will becomes victims at the hands of this person.

zzfh

You are doing more than enough here op. Having to look at films without volume and going by subtitles is ridiculous. like mentioned above,change your number or block the neighbors number, toughen up a bit with them. Tell her to contact the landlord if there is a problem.

redbel05

Decibel meter on your smartphone.
Record noise levels both beside your pump and in her bedroom at the same time preferably at night with three outcomes:
1. Her room is noisier than your pump= your pump is not causing the noise that's keeping her awake. Not your problem.
2.Your pumps noise level is below normal conversation level= she has no right to stop you having conversation level noise in your flat. Earplugs ate her only option
3. The pump is genuinely above acceptable noise levels in both places= evidence for the landlord that he needs to replace.

Swap places, and take multiple readings to verify. Pitch it to her as a means to try and get the landlord to change the pump.

evolving_doors

redbel05 wrote: »

Decibel meter on your smartphone.
Record noise levels both beside your pump and in her bedroom at the same time preferably at night with three outcomes:
1. Her room is noisier than your pump= your pump is not causing the noise that's keeping her awake. Not your problem.
2.Your pumps noise level is below normal conversation level= she has no right to stop you having conversation level noise in your flat. Earplugs ate her only option
3. The pump is genuinely above acceptable noise levels in both places= evidence for the landlord that he needs to replace.

Swap places, and take multiple readings to verify. Pitch it to her as a means to try and get the landlord to change the pump.

It would appear that using logic and evidence for this neighbour would fall on deaf ears.

Sarn

Gebgbegb wrote: »

would fall on deaf ears.

The OP should be so lucky!

niley

Gebgbegb wrote: »

It would appear that using logic and evidence for this neighbour would fall on deaf ears.

If it was falling on deaf ears there may not be a problem in the first place

Mrs OBumble

Sarn wrote: »

The OP should be so lucky!

Except that some people are born to whinge.

With this neighbour, if it wasn't noise, then it would be something else.

Potatoeman

How do they explain the washing machine they claimed to hear at night when you didn't have it on?

EmmaMurray2016

The dreaded noise. I'm living in my apartment 4 years, a noise like a hammer started banging at all hours of the night randomly. I put up with the banging for about 3 months, I just presumed it was going to be fixed. It was waking me up so much I just lost it once morning and rang my landlord.

New tenants had moved in below me around the same time as this noise started but the banging just got worse.

My landlord went down and spoke to them. They first said it was from their apartment. They turned on their shower and toilet and the banging started. But then they said it was 'normal' I said I think I know what normal noise is at this stage as that wasn't normal. So they got plumbers out and they could find nothing then they banging stopped, it lets the odd bang which I don't mind once it's not waking me up loads at night.

Anyways a year later it's still banging when they have shower on as you can hear shower motor reeving. Don't know why it's stopped at night, don't even know why it was banging hourly in the middle of the night at one stage. It's banging as I type lol. This wasn't banging previously for the first 4 years.

The couple below gave me their number but the last thing I want is to b annoying ppl. So I won't be texting them. Plus they are quiet thank god

Plus I'm a top floor apartment I hear noises from above me and there's not a thing on top of my apartment. So it's extremely hard to pin point noise.

I do be sneaking around in the morning because I don't want to be waking people up as these apartments are paper thin. I can hear neighbours talk even. I feel I can't have friends over for a few drinks even they are so thin walls and floors. Shame really. I'd move only my rent is good but looking to buy next year.

So I was probably that annoying neighbour, but wouldn't anyone if they were been woken up every night by unexplained noise.

hellyeah

I lived in an apartment for 5 years after constant problems ie partys, noise, flushing toilets, banging doors , arguments etc i gave up and finally sold the place as it was not worth my sanity in 2014. I hated going home near the end. Would never live in an apartment again.
Some nights i was going to sleep in my car. Management company were usless , no support
etc My problems were with owner occupiers.
People who bought my apartment sold it within the year.
Was in a very well to do area also.
Lesson learned. Move.

Spanish Eyes

Just say I was buying an apartment.

How the feck would I know about noise?

Anyone buy and figure it out before signing on the dotted line, or is it something you might live to regret?

I live in a house now. No noise whatsoever. Good neighbours, but then that's only two of them either side!

In an apartment depending on the floor you have neighbours left, right, above and below.

Must be the luck of the draw.

But soundproofing should be no. 1 in these builds. Guess what? It wasn't.

GreenFolder2

People can also make unreasonable complaints.

I lived in an apartment that had a window that faced into a side entrance which had a bedroom window of a neighbouring building in it.

One morning the guy from nextdoor followed me out from my hall door and started yelling that it was unreasonable to keep putting the light on as he couldn't sleep!!!

The kitchen had a fairly normal light and I had done a few late nights studying at the table with the blind down!

Anyway I told him that there was nothing I could do about it and he would need to invest in blackout blinds if he was that sensitive to light from windows.

He wrote letters of complaint to our management company who wrote similar responses about blinds.

Then his cat started to come in our window which was a bit annoying but she was friendly. Nothing would keep the cat out. She'd just jump in the bathroom window or any open window. We didn't encourage her and actually usually put her straight back out as she was really pestering.

Anyway he saw his cat sitting on our window sill (inside) and lost the plot altogether bashing on door and threatening to call the guards.

My flatmate was terrified and moved out and in the end I had to too and lost deposits.

Just beware of neighbours like that. They can make life miserable very fast and they can be utterly ridiculous and things can escalate fast.

slavetothegrind

just an observation on the pump noise at night. For not too much money a plumber could fit a large expansion vessel to act as an accumulator which would give you a store of pressurised water to allow for a flush and sink usage during the night without the pump coming on at all.

Also fairly easy to prove it's not you if you isolate power and water for a night or two and see if they still complain?

Don't envy you , i am in a semi-d and can hear coughs next door. Could tell you who was on late late show if i turned off my tv...:-(