Audi S4 (B6) - timing chain cost

ironclaw

Hi Everyone,

Has anyone had the timing chain of a B6 (4.2L / V8) Audi S4 replaced? My understanding is that it is a huge undertaking, in labour and parts. Furthermore, its an engine out job meaning there is scope to do other components in the mean time e.g. Clutch.

As such, guideline estimates for a chain, clutch and sundries? And yes, I know it's going to be 'a lot' :pac: My reasoning for asking is to attempt to price it into a purchase.

Supergurrier

Upwards of 5 grand.

Kit is 1500e

Mental amount of labour. Clutches are cheap but dmf's are expensive.

Whats milage on car and/or symptoms that makes you/seller think its due?

166man

€5k on a sub €10k car like that is madness. Unless you're getting it for free!

Yonks ago (not that long ago of course) I was in a 2007(?) RS4 briefly as a passenger. Nice car as it was and it was very well made, I couldn't really warm to it. Take the engine out of it and it's an A4 which wasn't a hugely brilliant car.

I guess what I'm saying is if I was going for a V8 it would want to be a special car (couldn't pay €2k tax on an A4 either!). I'm thinking along the lines of a Jaaaaaag or even more preferable would be a Maserati.

ironclaw

Thanks all.

@Supergurrier, its just a little north of 90k miles. Which according to the various forums is high time for the car to be due one. Some need it at 50k miles, others happily go to 150k miles. Apparently its a case of them all needing it at some stage, so many people just have it done. The car is effectively worthless if it needs doing, but has a far greater value if its done. Given the block has to come out anyway, its a good idea to do the clutch at the same time along with any remedial work on the engine itself.

I was thinking it was going to be expensive, but €5k was above even my worst case

mik_da_man

166man wrote: »

€5k on a sub €10k car like that is madness. Unless you're getting it for free!

Yonks ago (not that long ago of course) I was in a 2007(?) RS4 briefly as a passenger. Nice car as it was and it was very well made, I couldn't really warm to it. Take the engine out of it and it's an A4 which wasn't a hugely brilliant car.

I guess what I'm saying is if I was going for a V8 it would want to be a special car (couldn't pay €2k tax on an A4 either!). I'm thinking along the lines of a Jaaaaaag or even more preferable would be a Maserati.

A Jag over an RS4, are you well in the head?
I take it you never drove one...
Are you even sure it was a real one u were in?

mik_da_man

ironclaw wrote: »

Thanks all.

@Supergurrier, its just a little north of 90k miles. Which according to the various forums is high time for the car to be due one. Some need it at 50k miles, others happily go to 150k miles. Apparently its a case of them all needing it at some stage, so many people just have it done. The car is effectively worthless if it needs doing, but has a far greater value if its done. Given the block has to come out anyway, its a good idea to do the clutch at the same time along with any remedial work on the engine itself.

I was thinking it was going to be expensive, but €5k was above even my worst case

They may need it at that mileage, but many can do more. It's worth checking it for any noise.
It may well be fine.

However it's a big job. SG is prob bang on the cost, depends on the budget and how long you are keeping it for really.

ba_barabus

mik_da_man wrote: »

A Jag over an RS4, are you well in the head?

To be fair they are two very different cars but I think I'd prefer a nice V8 supercharged Jag for 360 days of the year and the Audit for the other ones when I feel like I want to look like a rep.

vectra

166man wrote: »

€5k on a sub €10k car like that is madness. Unless you're getting it for free!

Yonks ago (not that long ago of course) I was in a 2007(?) RS4 briefly as a passenger. Nice car as it was and it was very well made, I couldn't really warm to it. Take the engine out of it and it's an A4 which wasn't a hugely brilliant car.

I guess what I'm saying is if I was going for a V8 it would want to be a special car (couldn't pay €2k tax on an A4 either!). I'm thinking along the lines of a Jaaaaaag or even more preferable would be a Maserati.

Hahha

"Give me a boring Jag over an RS4" :pac:

What planet were you born on? :P

ba_barabus

vectra wrote: »

"Give me a boring Jag over an RS4"

I'm not going to argue his point as I don't think it's a great comparison but I would take a Jag V8 Supercharged over one. More than enough speed to get me into trouble and more than enough comfort to not ruin my back.

The above is just a personal opinion based on the two cars put forward but I don't imagine too many people who'd want a Jag would compare it to an Audi ini the real world.

A more appropriate comparison is obviously an M3 VS S4, or in the case of Ireland a 316d VS A4 TDi

ironclaw

Have to say, being in this car with that V8 infront and running under you, it is something special. I've never felt a car to go like it. Its rival led only by the GT-R from personal experience.

mik_da_man

ba_barabus wrote: »

To be fair they are two very different cars but I think I'd prefer a nice V8 supercharged Jag for 360 days of the year and the Audit for the other ones when I feel like I want to look like a rep.

They are very different, but rep...come on!

ba_barabus

mik_da_man wrote: »

They are very different, but rep...come on!

Only prodding to upset the fan boys

But I don't see a comparison between the two realistically.

mik_da_man

ba_barabus wrote: »

I'm not going to argue his point as I don't think it's a great comparison but I would take a Jag V8 Supercharged over one. More than enough speed to get me into trouble and more than enough comfort to not ruin my back.

The above is just a personal opinion based on the two cars put forward but I don't imagine too many people who'd want a Jag would compare it to an Audi ini the real world.

A more appropriate comparison is obviously an M3 VS S4, or in the case of Ireland a 316d VS A4 TDi

The Audi is actually an incredibly comfortable place to be. DRC suspension is very nifty.

ba_barabus

OP possible PM George Dalton as I think he services, or serviced, one for a customer. He may know or can give an independent specialist quote on the costs involved.

mik_da_man

ironclaw wrote: »

Have to say, being in this car with that V8 infront and running under you, it is something special. I've never felt a car to go like it. Its rival led only by the GT-R from personal experience.

They are special, and once looked after they will go for a long time, that engine is very well built .
Thing is that if you are keeping it the fix will stand to you in time, they won't drop in value too much more and may well start to go the other way. Think it's just starting to happen in the UK at the moment.

Supergurrier

Thing about these is alot of places service with 5w-30 instead of 5w-40 both in spec but the former can wear down piston rings and lead to scoring. These engines have seals and gaskets galore and they frequently let go.

The idea of a 40v V8 that size in a junior exec model was great but badly implemented and a pain to work on.

These also use alot of oil for many different reasons.

You could spend 5k on timing system only to find out you have scored internals in combustion chamber and you need to whip the engine out again. RS4 has more advanced coatings on engine components so not an issue compared to S4.

Loved mine but I've never owned a car that could be so costly to run and maintain and in 5 months id spent 3k on fuel/tax/exhaust work/seals and gaskets/front brakes and fluid services.

Go in eyes open.

ironclaw

Thanks Supergurrier. Eyes are open for sure.

@ba_barabus, Dalton's were very helpful and are assisting me at the moment.

Ded_Zebra

I think you would be better looking elsewhere op. Find a car with the work all done, it always works out cheaper than doing the work yourself. The cars with the work done already also tend to have been looked after better generally too so are more reliable (generally speaking)

Personally if I was spending that kind of money on a car and tax and running costs I would want something much more special than an s4. Take your time and try a few cars like the supercharged jags and fast Mercedes. I think you'll find them far superior and probably a little less expensive to maintain.

Big Nasty

As much as I'd like to I'd be afraid of my life to buy an S / RS / AMG / M car. The size of the bills I've seen and heard of are staggering. You're talking €5k in preventative maintenance there. Crazy money unless you've no financial worries and if you don't would you be buying a ten year old car?

The only chance you have is to buy one of these cars is from an enthusiast with documented history, and you'll pay through the nose for that. Personally I'd be far more likely to buy an A6 Quattro Sport line or BMW 540 M Sport for half the price and half the worries. I know it's not exactly the same but you're still going to get plenty of power, decent handling and a far more reliable machine.

conzy

The ///M and RS machines are amazing machinery and a lot of the time they have highly strung engines that need extra maintenance and attention, this is to be expected.

The problem is these are €100k+ vehicles that still have 100k vehicle maintenance and running costs. Which means if your pockets are not as deep as the consultant / developer that bought it day 1, it may be very hard to maintain one!

If you have the money, or if you buy one of these knowing the attention they need. fair fúcks to you The problem is people buying them based on the pricetag and forgetting the other costs. Sure I can afford a ///M5 they are only 20k now, but I cannot afford to tax / fuel / insure / maintain it properly. An RX8 nearly broke me :pac:

Anyway 5k to put an S4 "worth 10k" back on the road is not total madness. If you were asking about 5k to put a small diesel hatchback back on the road that would be another thing. Nobody buys these cars with sense / finances in mind. All you can ask is it worth 5k to get another few years of serious SPG (smiles per gallon)

Supergurrier

Some sounds you can't out a pricetag on though.

conzy

Supergurrier

Fella in souhans thought i was mad to remove mufflers on a car with no resonation, i lasted about two weeks before i put miltek mufflers back on, good times though :P

My neighbours might disagree

ironclaw

Thanks for the input everyone. And yes, certifiably mad. Digging around, it would appear the probability of this happening is pretty high but on the upshot, its not instantly catastrophic, you do get some warning. So you have coin toss between doing it now or waiting for it to happen. Finding a car with the work done is impossible. Even in the UK, I can't find a single one with it done. And lets be honest, its for good reason. It would explain why the price is so low to pick these cars up, the price you pay for the car is the price is going to cost you to get it right.

The only saving grace would be the cost you put into the car to get it right, you'd get back on the sale. Your only sunken cost would be the cost of the car itself as its not going to devalue much more below the current price, and pre-emptive work is going to keep that or even increase it.

I look at a great deal of cars for people in my spare time, and I ran the costs of the S4 versus an A3 (2.0 TFSI / 2006). I've omitted the motor tax for the S4 as these are the costs from the time the car is bought to the time it hits the road, and the S4 is currently taxed. I've also lowered the work figure on the S4 as a round estimate, its likely higher.

S4:
€6000 [Car]
€2200 [Insurance]
€480 [Tyres]
€3000 [Work]

Total: €11,680

A3:

€6500 [Car]
€1200 [Insurance]
€710 [Tax]
€480 [Tyres]
€700 [Work]

Total: €9590

So, your difference between the cars is €2090.

If you project those figures out, adding tax per year, a maintenance cost of €500 per year and maintain the same insurance figures, then reduce the price by 40% when you go to sell. The net investment (loss) for each is:

S4: €22,720
A3: €14,155

So the S4 is €2k more to buy and will cost you ~€8k more in the long run than an A3.

mik_da_man

Good idea putting the numbers together, but I think you may have over estimated how much the S4 would loose in value.

I think with the work done it should hold value for a few years tbh.

And can you put a price on happiness?

ironclaw

mik_da_man wrote: »

Good idea putting the numbers together, but I think you may have over estimated how much the S4 would loose in value.

I think with the work done it should hold value for a few years tbh.

And can you put a price on happiness?

A 'real how long is a piece of string' question I suppose. S4's in the UK, are holding reasonably firm at about ~£6k. I don't expect this to drop much further, they all also do not have the work done. So, assuming you found an import here, did the work, and in three years sold it back into the UK market, you could get a very good resale value and possibly a VRT refund as well. You're going to make a loss, no question, but you could come out in the same position as something as plain as an A3.

Will there always be a market for V8s? I think so. And its a reasonably iconic car, an understated M3/M5, and from the same era on the BMW side you are seeing minor appreciation for nice examples.

Then again, there is a strong case to take the €20k or so that you are going to burn over the course of three years and go PCP on something like the new RS3 or Focus RS.

Ded_Zebra

What sort of tyres are you putting on the s4 that will be that cheap!!

I think you have underestimated the running cost of the s4 to be honest. I think it's fair to say it'll cost a minimum of 3000 to maintain every year. Probably 8000-10,000 the year you decide to change the timing chain. Keep your eyes open and your pockets deep!

ironclaw

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

What sort of tyres are you putting on the s4 that will be that cheap!!

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 @225/45 R17 with a Y rating. Both come in at around ~€120 per corner, making ~€500 all round.

Supergurrier

I was only paying 640e p/a to insure the S4 @ 32 with 8 years no claims no points etc.

When i rang to insure it expecting to be hammerred the girl said let me go speak to my supervisor and came back saying she owned me 200e.

Happy days :P Avants might be cheaper to insure i dunno.

Ded_Zebra

ironclaw wrote: »

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 @225/45 R17 with a Y rating. Both come in at around ~€120 per corner, making ~€500 all round.

I thought they would have been a much bigger size than that!

Supergurrier

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

I thought they would have been a much bigger size than that!

Wheels on mine were 225(235)/40.R18, not sure if they come with 17's

Ded_Zebra

Supergurrier wrote: »

Wheels on mine were 225(235)/40.R18, not sure if they come with 17's

What would they cost roughly? I'm just worried that the OP is seriously underestimating the cost of running an S4.

Truckermal

ironclaw wrote: »

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 @225/45 R17 with a Y rating. Both come in at around ~€120 per corner, making ~€500 all round.

How are you getting them that cheap I have a 151 A4 and 245/45/18 Hankooks are costing 260 before fitting.

Supergurrier

Truckermal wrote: »

How are you getting them that cheap I have a 151 A4 and 245/45/18 Hankooks are costing 260 before fitting.

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m61b0s315p135534/Hankook_Tyres_Car_Hankook_K120_Ventus_V12_Evo_2_Hankook_K_120_-_245_45_R18_100Y_XL_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_A_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_72dB

145e

ironclaw

Truckermal wrote: »

How are you getting them that cheap I have a 151 A4 and 245/45/18 Hankooks are costing 260 before fitting.

http://www.oponeo.ie/

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

What would they cost roughly? I'm just worried that the OP is seriously underestimating the cost of running an S4.

Thanks for the concern Ded_Zebra. I fully understand the costs involved, tyres are the least of it :pac: At this point, its a musing and a possibility. No commitment yet

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

From the tone of your posts I think you should buy one. You'll be like a Cheshire Cat.

You can't take it with you when you go...

Supergurrier

Cheshire cat with an opie oils loyalty card

ironclaw

Supergurrier wrote: »

Cheshire cat with an opie oils loyalty card

My old boss had an SL with a 5l engine (I think) in it. He pretty much had a tab down the local Topaz station and was a running joke with the staff. He was there every single day :pac:

corcaigh1

Supergurrier wrote: »

Some sounds you can't out a pricetag on though.

Jaysus what a car and what a sound! Must be impossible to insure these days in ireland??

I have noticed yours is for sale in kerry! Did the car not come with recaro seats as standard?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/audi-s4-v8-quattro-avant/14581188

Truckermal

That's for sale ages now.

corcaigh1

Truckermal wrote: »

That's for sale ages now.

Yeah id say its very hard to sell over insurance etc which is as a shame, savage machine...

Supergurrier

Insurance was fine at the time only 640e or so (535d i bought after was over twice that to insure)

I sold that car cheap to a local guy as it was using quite abit of oil.

I did uprated pcv oil breather i imported from the states and changed both rocker cover gaskets and changed to the proper weight oil 5w-40 and it improved somewhat but at it's worst it was using a litre of oil per 300 miles which is madness.

It's a common problem with them and very expensive to diagnose because of the way the engine sits in the car.

corcaigh1

Supergurrier wrote: »

Insurance was fine at the time only 640e or so (535d i bought after was over twice that to insure)

I sold that car cheap to a local guy as it was using quite abit of oil.

I did uprated pcv oil breather i imported from the states and changed both rocker cover gaskets and changed to the proper weight oil 5w-40 and it improved somewhat but at it's worst it was using a litre of oil per 300 miles which is madness.

It's a common problem with them and very expensive to diagnose because of the way the engine sits in the car.

Isn't it sickening to pay over twice the insurance premium for the 535d ffs. Shame the S4 started burning oil, lovely car...

Cee-Jay-Cee

Truckermal wrote: »

How are you getting them that cheap I have a 151 A4 and 245/45/18 Hankooks are costing 260 before fitting.

You were robbed! I paid €460 fitted for 225/45/18 Avon ZZ5’s last February. I could have got Hankooks (not sure which model) for the same price. 245’s will be slightly dearer but not €145 dearer!!

tossy

corcaigh1 wrote: »

I have noticed yours is for sale in kerry! Did the car not come with recaro seats

The interior shots are of a different car, a diesel A4.