Free home charger. Until when?

unkel

ESB supply and fit, completely free of charge, a home charger for every buyer of a new EV in Ireland. Well, for the first 2,000 of them

When do you expect that to be finished? How many EVs have been sold here new to date? Breakdown per year / model?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

46 sold in 2013
222 sold in 2014
562 sold in 2015
259 Jan-Mar 2016

* note the figures are pulled from multiple sources and may contain electric and hybrids or just electric.

Gives a rough idea that they are not exactly selling very well!

unkel

Surely you mean PHEV, not just any hybrid? And PHEV also qualify for free home charge point?

If so, extrapolating the data will make getting a free charger for an early '17 new car far from certain. Or am I missing something here?

KCross

I was under the impression that about 1600 of the 2000 were already used. The rest of those should be used within the next 12 months unless the government change policy.

unkel

Was in Nissan dealers this afternoon. They reckon about those figures and that availability will probably still be ok for Jan '17 delivery but not much longer. They said they would get a heads-up from the ESB when the numbers are running out, so they can get a few interested customers to sign up before it's too late.

KCross

Its worth about €1000 (supply and fit) so you have to factor that in to any 2nd hand deal you do if you decide not to buy new.

stesaurus

KCross wrote: »

Its worth about €1000 (supply and fit) so you have to factor that in to any 2nd hand deal you do if you decide not to buy new.

Not really, about half that realistically. So it shouldn't be a huge sway

BoatMad

s.welstead wrote: »

Not really, about half that realistically. So it shouldn't be a huge sway

agreed, a charge master home charger can be got new for 300 euros all in

20 amp RCBO is 19 euros , just purchased this and all the ecltrical bits less cable for 35 euros ,

Then its a simple install unless you have a complicated route to the fuse board

It should be pointed out that a 16 A EVSE can be quite happily installed on a ring as a spur , protected by a RCBO

KCross

I'd agree it's less than 1k but not a whole lot, certainly not half the price for Joe public like you suggest, you guys seem to know what you are doing yourself.

Sparks these days don't do much for €100
The quotes I got were for about €950 so I just rounded up.

I bought my own charger (Rolec 32A), cable (10sq mm) and RCBO for about €600. Waiting for a friend to install so I'm hoping he won't charge much.

stesaurus

I have a 30a listed for sale for €250. You could have a 16a for less, then just shop around for a sparks

KCross

s.welstead wrote: »

I have a 30a listed for sale for €250. You could have a 16a for less, then just shop around for a sparks

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that a spare you are selling so not normal retail price?

I looked at Irish and UK websites for a Rolec and didn't see any for less than £300. Are Chargemaster generally cheaper?

Maybe these are the usual Irish rip off prices?
http://carcharger.ie/product/945

Can you post links to where you can buy a new Rolec for less than €400 as that's the only expensive bit really.

hexosan

KCross wrote: »

Maybe these are the usual Irish rip off prices?


Speaking of rip off
http://carcharger.ie/product/rolec-ev-a3-sign

€104 for an A3 sign

KCross

Yea, some of their stuff is priced off the wall alright. This wall holder is just a pit of plastic to hold the connector and its €40! That should be no more than €10.

http://carcharger.ie/product/type-2-iec62196-2-wall-holder


However, I'd still like to know where I can buy a new 32A Tethered Rolec cheaper than €400?

One UK site I looked at have them for £384.
http://evonestop.co.uk/shop/chevrolet/chevrolet-volt/wallpod-ev-homecharge-j1772-type-1-16amp/

Kellihers electrical quoted me €520 for just the charger.
One of the guys that does the ESB installs quoted me €977 fitted for an untethered unit or €1118 for a tethered one.

I did look around but didnt find any options that would have it all installed for €500 so I'm keen to see where you guys are buying Rolec's at that price.

stesaurus

KCross wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that a spare you are selling so not normal retail price?

I looked at Irish and UK websites for a Rolec and didn't see any for less than £300. Are Chargemaster generally cheaper?

Maybe these are the usual Irish rip off prices?
http://carcharger.ie/product/945

Can you post links to where you can buy a new Rolec for less than €400 as that's the only expensive bit really.

You're correct it is below retail but they can be found cheap enough. I wouldn't let a 2nd hand unit put you off for example. Plenty on eBay or advertised on different EV forums every week, some are brand new.
Point being that spending up to €1000 is wrong, you can do it cheaper with a bit of looking. There is nothing special about a charger for them to be priced that high.

KCross

s.welstead wrote: »

You're correct it is below retail but they can be found cheap enough. I wouldn't let a 2nd hand unit put you off for example. Plenty on eBay or advertised on different EV forums every week, some are brand new.
Point being that spending up to €1000 is wrong, you can do it cheaper with a bit of looking. There is nothing special about a charger for them to be priced that high.

OK, I'd agree €1k is wrong as well which is why I didnt pay that!

However, I think it would be hard for most people to do it for €500.
Somewhere in between is more realistic for an EV first timer looking to get one.

We wont argue over a few hundred! The main point is that you need to budget some money to get a charger if you decide to buy a 2nd hand EV.


Im not sure I'd agree with you on buying a 2nd hand EVSE though. I'm sure there might be some genuine cases as to why someone would sell a 2nd hand one but I'd be suspicious. Usually its a one off buy and its bolted to the wall and it either works or it doesnt. I'd rather not buy a 2nd hand EVSE anyway, not to say there arent genuine ones out there.

September1

KCross wrote: »

Im not sure I'd agree with you on buying a 2nd hand EVSE though. I'm sure there might be some genuine cases as to why someone would sell a 2nd hand one but I'd be suspicious. Usually its a one off buy and its bolted to the wall and it either works or it doesnt. I'd rather not buy a 2nd hand EVSE anyway, not to say there arent genuine ones out there.

I think usual case would be people changing car to one with different socket or perhaps ICE car.

stesaurus

Yep, it's not like buying a 2nd hand car so not much to worry about. It's only really an outdoor socket at the end of the day

cros13

My latest chargepoint:

Rolec 32A chargepoint: £355 inc VAT + €3.50 for parcel motel

http://www.rexelenergysolutions.co.uk/product/2500526428/Rolec-Mode-3-EV-WallPod-Charging-Station-With-32amp-Type-2-IEC62196-Socket

15 meters of 3x10sqmm SWA cable from CEF for €70

40A C-Curve MCB from RS Radionics for €4.31

The Rolec chargepoints have an RCBO in them. And I could have got away with 6sqmm cable.

Ended up just under €550... but could have done it for €450 if I used a podpoint 32A chargepoint and thinner cable. But I prefer the Rolecs...

KCross

cros13 wrote: »

My latest chargepoint:

Rolec 32A chargepoint: £355 inc VAT + €3.50 for parcel motel

http://www.rexelenergysolutions.co.uk/product/2500526428/Rolec-Mode-3-EV-WallPod-Charging-Station-With-32amp-Type-2-IEC62196-Socket

15 meters of 3x10sqmm SWA cable from CEF for €70

40A C-Curve MCB from RS Radionics for €4.31

The Rolec chargepoints have an RCBO in them. And I could have got away with 6sqmm cable.

Ended up just under €550... but could have done it for €450 if I used a podpoint 32A chargepoint and thinner cable. But I prefer the Rolecs...

Almost the same as what I paid and went the parcel motel route too. Just waiting for fitting now and I might eventually get off the granny cable!

I'm actually surprised how workable the granny cable is. It's at 100% most mornings.

KCross

FYI:
Most companies only provide/show the Rolec in the bright Green and White colour but some of them also have a dusk blue colour which suited me better as I have grey stone on the house so it blends in better.




I bought here for £330 and used ParcelMotel for the delivery so it cost about €420 delivered:
http://evonestop.co.uk/shop/audi/audi-r8-e-tron/wallpod-ev-homecharge-iec62196-type-2-socket/

MaceFace

Is there any benefit to shelling out a your own cash on the likes of Rolec rather than just going with the ESB free option?

Is the ESB charger tethered? Does it come with different connections? What about the car after next - will I need a new connection?

I assume the ESB charger is a pretty basic "slow" charger...

KCross

MaceFace wrote: »

Is there any benefit to shelling out a your own cash on the likes of Rolec rather than just going with the ESB free option?

Is the ESB charger tethered? Does it come with different connections? What about the car after next - will I need a new connection?

I assume the ESB charger is a pretty basic "slow" charger...

By default they will install a 16A charger. They wont, apparently, put in a 32A charger which will charge twice as fast IF your car has a charger than can take more than 3kw

Some folks here said you can negotiate with the guy that comes to install it but they may say no.

I dont know if they put in tethered or untethered but if its tethered it should be easy enough to change the cable on it.
If its untethered it will be a standard Type 2 connector so it will charge any car once you have your own cable for that car.

Here is some info on it from ESB site:
https://www.esb.ie/docs/default-source/ecars/terms-and-conditions-for-pre-qualification-approval-for-supply-of-home-charge-point-2015

Snippet:
HOME CHARGE POINT means a 3.6kW,16 Amp, single phase, wall mounted unit. The HomeCharge Point charges the Electric Vehicle using 'mode 3' power as set out in IEC 61851;

stesaurus

MaceFace wrote: »

Is there any benefit to shelling out a your own cash on the likes of Rolec rather than just going with the ESB free option?

Is the ESB charger tethered? Does it come with different connections? What about the car after next - will I need a new connection?

I assume the ESB charger is a pretty basic "slow" charger...

They seem to be mainly installing ABL units as of late. Seem to be pretty high end. They will install a 16a with cable, rcbo to match. However some of these ABL units are capable of 32a with a software change that you could do yourself.
They won't install a tethered cable as the connection may be different depending on the car so an untethered will work with anything using your own cable received with the car.
Absolutely no reason to not accept a free installed charger from the ESB. If you are set on having a tethered 32a point at home then simply ask them to install the charger elsewhere.

k123456

Would you have information on the 32a software change , please

slicedpanman

k123456 wrote: »

Would you have information on the 32a software change , please

Check out mundogas comments here: http://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2057562213/2?
BUT be careful doing this - you need to be sure that your main board can handle the extra supply... you probably need to know what you are doing or install some priority switches or get an electrician to check your board

stesaurus

k123456 wrote: »

Would you have information on the 32a software change , please

There's a FB post with details too that I put up on Irish EV if you're on there

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

My latest chargepoint:

Rolec 32A chargepoint: £355 inc VAT + €3.50 for parcel motel

http://www.rexelenergysolutions.co.uk/product/2500526428/Rolec-Mode-3-EV-WallPod-Charging-Station-With-32amp-Type-2-IEC62196-Socket

15 meters of 3x10sqmm SWA cable from CEF for €70

40A C-Curve MCB from RS Radionics for €4.31

The Rolec chargepoints have an RCBO in them. And I could have got away with 6sqmm cable.

Ended up just under €550... but could have done it for €450 if I used a podpoint 32A chargepoint and thinner cable. But I prefer the Rolecs...

You should really be installing a RCBO rather then a MCB

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

You should really be installing a RCBO rather then a MCB

I used a 40A RCBO with the first few chargepoints.... but an MCB on the board does just fine... there is a Type A RCBO at the load end in the Rolec so what's the point in wiring two in series?

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

I used a 40A RCBO with the first few chargepoints.... but an MCB on the board does just fine... there is a Type A RCBO at the load end in the Rolec so what's the point in wiring two in series?

RCDs should really be at the start of the spur to the evse. The fitment of them in certain , but not all EVSEs in the EVSE box is more an assumption and protection from bad installation practice then a good idea in general

DublinDilbert

BoatMad wrote: »

It should be pointed out that a 16 A EVSE can be quite happily installed on a ring as a spur , protected by a RCBO

I presume you mean a radial circuit as we don't use ring circuits here?

Can anyone else confirm if they are happy to fit a 16A charge point off a socket circuit? Have a circuit with just one socket on it which is back to back with where the charge point will probably go.

BoatMad

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I presume you mean a radial circuit as we don't use ring circuits here?

Can anyone else confirm if they are happy to fit a 16A charge point off a socket circuit? Have a circuit with just one socket on it which is back to back with where the charge point will probably go.

Err modern socket circuits are wired as a ring main

DublinDilbert

BoatMad wrote: »

Err modern socket circuits are wired as a ring main

I haven't seen a ring circuit in a long time. Last place I saw one was a house in the north or Ireland.

n97 mini

Ring mains were all the rage 10 or 15 years ago, but radial is back as the wiring of choice now afaik.

BoatMad

n97 mini wrote: »

Ring mains were all the rage 10 or 15 years ago, but radial is back as the wiring of choice now afaik.

Yeah , cause they have that quality beloved of Irish builders , cheap

Rings carry bigger loads and better distribute such loads

I have two good old ring mains

If you have radials , then putting a 15A load via an evse loads the radial too much in my opinion , with typical 20 A mcbs, it's too close. On a ring however with 32A , it's doable

MaceFace

I got the ESB free charger installed today.
The unit is the eMH1 Basic. The online price is about €800, but that seems to come with a tethered cable.

Installer says he is flat out installing them - maybe 25-30 a week.

highly1111

Our parking spaces are not directly outside our house. Can an EV charging point be installed? It's an designated on street space outside our house. Are we looking at above and beyond the norm? Thanks

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

Err modern socket circuits are wired as a ring main

The only reason ring wiring was introduced after the war was to save on copper.

Star topology is much safer.

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

The only reason ring wiring was introduced after the war was to save on copper.

Star topology is much safer.

Err is not any way safer , rings often consumed more copper in smaller houses and apartments then modern radial installations, which is why rings fell out of favour

And then there is the restricted current in radials

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

Err is not any way safer , rings often consumed more copper in smaller houses and apartments then modern radial installations, which is why rings fell out of favour

And then there is the restricted current in radials

I'm afraid you're wrong here, sir.

You'd need to compare apples to apples: for example circuit protected with 16A fuse.

With radial circuit, you use 2.5mm² to do the wiring and use 30m. (thin air figure). With ring, you can use 1.5mm² and say, 33% more cable - 40m.

With the ring you've have more length - 133%, but used less surface - 60%. The example ring is using ~80% of the copper the radial circuit.

Why it is less safe? When there is one break in the ring, the devices will still work, used would not notice anything. However the load goes only through one cable, and if the appliances draw close to the circuit limit, that cable will be above its capacity.

Sure - you can build ring with 2.5mm² and fuse it for 16A. But that's just wasting material.

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

I'm afraid you're wrong here, sir.

You'd need to compare apples to apples: for example circuit protected with 16A fuse.

With radial circuit, you use 2.5mm² to do the wiring and use 30m. (thin air figure). With ring, you can use 1.5mm² and say, 33% more cable - 40m.

With the ring you've have more length - 133%, but used less surface - 60%. The example ring is using ~80% of the copper the radial circuit.

Why it is less safe? When there is one break in the ring, the devices will still work, used would not notice anything. However the load goes only through one cable, and if the appliances draw close to the circuit limit, that cable will be above its capacity.

Sure - you can build ring with 2.5mm² and fuse it for 16A. But that's just wasting material.

Huh, rings are specified for 20A and 2,5 sq and that's what's typically installed

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

Huh, rings are specified for 20A and 2,5 sq and that's what's typically installed

Then agreed - it is wasteful.

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

Then agreed - it is wasteful.

The fact is a ring allows greater power to be supplied to a larger number of sockets.

A radial , there is a tendency to run too many sockets on single radials resulting in less power available to those sockets

Radials were introduced because they are cheaper then rings in small houses and apartments , that's all.

In a ring , installed to code, if it's breaks , each side can still sustain the full 20 A safely. There is no loss of safety

MJ434

How long does it take for the ESB to install the home charger from when the dealer registers it ?
And when/how do you get the card to use the public charge points?(Are they still free?)

Cheers in advance!

BoatMad

MJ434 wrote: »

How long does it take for the ESB to install the home charger from when the dealer registers it ?
And when/how do you get the card to use the public charge points?(Are they still free?)

Cheers in advance!

2-3 weeks in my case

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

2-3 weeks in my case

Card is issued on foot of details from the dealer in the case of a new car