Digital refunds rights?

FlyingIrishMan

Hi,
During the weekend my younger brother (12, I'm 20), gave a friend of his access to my Playstation account. I'm not sure how he did this whether he managed to get my password, or whether he "share-played" with him (remote screen access).

Anyway, whilst his friend was on my account he bought 260euro worth of games. My card was linked up to the account so the money came straight from that. This kid is also around 12/13 years of age so definitely old enough to know what he is at.

None of the games were downloaded to my Playstation 4, however that kid downloaded 2 of them to his. So I contacted Sony and they told me they will refund the ones that he did not download, but not the two that he did.
The two he did download still amount to about 120euro.

The kicker is Sony support have told me that the other 140euro can only be refunded in Playstation Store vouchers, which is useless to me as I don't play it regularly.

Is there any laws that will force Sony to refund me in cash (at the very least the 140euro).

I'm also going to contact that kids parents, but I'm on the fence about whether I can ask for them to cover anything seeing as the account is my responsibility. At the very least they'll punish him.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

(Sorry if this isn't the right area, I figured this was the best place).

F1ngers

Can't help with the legalities I'm afraid, but you can/should set up your account so that a purchase can only be finalized by the use of a password.

I had to do it to my account after I accidentally purchased GTA V.

https://www.playstation.com/en-ie/get-help/help-library/store---transactions/payments---refunds/how-to-use-playstation-4-to-set-up-require-password-at-checkout/

FlyingIrishMan

F1ngers wrote: »

Can't help with the legalities I'm afraid, but you can/should set up your account so that a purchase can only be finalized by the use of a password.

I had to do it to my account after I accidentally purchased GTA V.

https://www.playstation.com/en-ie/get-help/help-library/store---transactions/payments---refunds/how-to-use-playstation-4-to-set-up-require-password-at-checkout/

Yeah I really should have had it set up that way, I've had it with me away at college for the past year so it wasn't really a worry for me then. Thanks though.

CIARAN_BOYLE

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/distance_selling.html

The above link is accurate as far as i know and contains provisions on the change of mind of items purchased at a distance.

This assumes that you are buying from an EU subsidiary of sony rather than sony itself. which i believe you are with the playstation store.

Regarding the 120 I believe the kid owes you the money or you can prosecute for theft.

FlyingIrishMan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/distance_selling.html

The above link is accurate as far as i know and contains provisions on the change of mind of items purchased at a distance.

This assumes that you are buying from an EU subsidiary of sony rather than sony itself. which i believe you are with the playstation store.

Regarding the 120 I believe the kid owes you the money or you can prosecute for theft.

Yeah I was reading that yesterday too, I made out that I was only entitled to the 140 euro back but I couldn't find anything that specified whether it had to be cash or credit.

There is a section there about credit card fraud, and that my liability can not exceed 150euro. Would this apply here or is it not fraud as he was given access to the account on purpose, although not by me.

Also is it theft when as I said he was purposefully given access to the account by someone else? Albeit not with the intention of letting him buy games.

Thanks for the help, I might email the ecc guys there if I can't get it sorted myself within the next day or two.

CIARAN_BOYLE

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

Yeah I was reading that yesterday too, I made out that I was only entitled to the 140 euro back but I couldn't find anything that specified whether it had to be cash or credit.

It is in whatever form you paid.

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

Also is it theft when as I said he was purposefully given access to the account by someone else? Albeit not with the intention of letting him buy games.

I ask you to hold my wallet. You empty it and give it back to me with no cash. Thats still theft.

FlyingIrishMan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

It is in whatever form you paid.



I ask you to hold my wallet. You empty it and give it back to me with no cash. Thats still theft.

Good analogy, their phone lines open in an hour, I'll ring them back then and be more stern about getting it back as cash and deal with the other part after.
Thanks.

goz83

You need to contact this kids parents. What he did is not on at all and he is old enough to take responsibility. He was sneaky enough to download the games to his PS4, which would suggest he still has/had access to your account. If I was his Dad, I would certainly want to know. Little f++ker!

FlyingIrishMan

goz83 wrote: »

You need to contact this kids parents. What he did is not on at all and he is old enough to take responsibility. He was sneaky enough to download the games to his PS4, which would suggest he still has/had access to your account. If I was his Dad, I would certainly want to know. Little f++ker!

Well I changed the password as soon as I saw the emails, I've been working late hours the past few days so I haven't actually seen my brother to talk about it at all so I still don't know whether he gave him the password or let him remote access.

Anyway I just got an email there they've refunded me 140 back into my PSN store wallet which obviously isn't good enough so I'll be ringing them up soon to try get it right.

FlyingIrishMan

Rang them up and the guy on the phone was a real dick, he was refusing to refund me in cash. Call lasted two minutes, with him just constantly repeating that he won't refund me regardless of what I said.
If anyone knows anything specific I can cite to get it back that'd be great..

Carawaystick

If it was a credit card purchase and you didn't receive anything can you instigate a chargeback?

FlyingIrishMan

Carawaystick wrote: »

If it was a credit card purchase and you didn't receive anything can you instigate a chargeback?

Sony will ban my account then and I'll lose access to all the games I currently own which amounts to more than 260euro, along with a Playstation Plus subscription good for 10months, so it's not worth it.

TherapyBoy

There was a case of something sort-of similar happening to another boards user. His account was hacked somehow (by someone he didn't know) & someone downloaded a game for PlayStation on his credit card. The game was downloaded to a PS4 in the USA, was only available on PS4 (this user only had PS3 at the time) and was having no luck talking to Sony themselves. I think he was even open to taking PSN store credit to the value of the game but they weren't offering anything. In the end he decided as he had paid for the game & no refund was coming he'd download it himself, at least get to play what he had paid for. When he went into the PSN store that's when he realised the game wasn't able to be played on any console he owned. Still no joy from Sony.

Eventually he contacted his credit card company & they were able to issue a chargeback on the money for him, but after he did this Sony banned his PSN account. They are an absolute nightmare to deal with in cases like this.

FlyingIrishMan

TherapyBoy wrote: »

There was a case of something sort-of similar happening to another boards user. His account was hacked somehow (by someone he didn't know) & someone downloaded a game for PlayStation on his credit card. The game was downloaded to a PS4 in the USA, was only available on PS4 (this user only had PS3 at the time) and was having no luck talking to Sony themselves. I think he was even open to taking PSN store credit to the value of the game but they weren't offering anything. In the end he decided as he had paid for the game & no refund was coming he'd download it himself, at least get to play what he had paid for. When he went into the PSN store that's when he realised the game wasn't able to be played on any console he owned. Still no joy from Sony.

Eventually he contacted his credit card company & they were able to issue a chargeback on the money for him, but after he did this Sony banned his PSN account. They are an absolute nightmare to deal with in cases like this.

Yeah I guess I'm having a bit more luck than some people, I got some of it refunded fairly quickly in PSN funds.

I rang them back again there and got a different guy, he was more helpful. He said there's nothing he can do as he's only "level 1", but he's going to get a supervisor to ring me back and they have the ability to decide.

He was saying that the original guy I was talking to the day I found out it happened had requested twice for me to get it back in cash but his requests were denied..

TherapyBoy

The best way of getting you back your money is probably contacting the kids parents. Arrange to gift him back the €140 store credit & the parents pay the credit card bill. Then let them deal with the misbehaving kid :pac:

FlyingIrishMan

TherapyBoy wrote: »

The best way of getting you back your money is probably contacting the kids parents. Arrange to gift him back the €140 store credit & the parents pay the credit card bill. Then let them deal with the misbehaving kid :pac:

Well the 140 store credit is non transferable, I'm definitely going to get in contact with the kids parents as soon as I can get their number, but until then I'll try and get Sony to refund as much as possible so either me or them are only down the 120.

TherapyBoy

I'd be trying to transfer the credit or gift purchases to its value & get the parents to cop for it all. Kid is in trouble anyways, might as well hang for the lot.

FlyingIrishMan

TherapyBoy wrote: »

I'd be trying to transfer the credit or gift purchases to its value & get the parents to cop for it all. Kid is in trouble anyways, might as well hang for the lot.

It's not fair on the parents either to expect them to suddenly pay 260 euro, I don't know their financial situation. If I can make it easier on both of us by getting Sony to refund over half of it I think that's the best way to go.

TherapyBoy

It is the best way to go but it still leaves you with €140 credit you might not have wanted to spend.

Whatever way works best for you. Sony won't budge, they're getting €260 anyways but you're being very fair to the parents. I hope you get a nice little karma boost for it somewhere down the road.

FlyingIrishMan

TherapyBoy wrote: »

It is the best way to go but it still leaves you with €140 credit you might not have wanted to spend.

Whatever way works best for you. Sony won't budge, they're getting €260 anyways but you're being very fair to the parents. I hope you get a nice little karma boost for it somewhere down the road.

Well I was working under the assumption that the 140euro credit would be refunded as cash which I still think there is a good chance will happen assuming I keep at them. There's a good few stories on reddit of people getting fully refunded for much less forgiving scenarios and in the US too where consumer laws aren't as good.

Otherwise I'll just ask the parents to compensate the 120 and if they want to compensate any more I'll take it, but I can't demand it.

nuac

Sorry for your difficulty FIM, and thanks to all who made suggestions.

However as some of these amount to legal advice which may not be given here I have to close this thread

/Moc//