Natural Selection

Burger Please

I have a simple, yet important question.

Why is it that we as humans, (or at lease some of us) cannot simply let natural selection take place as nature intended it without the nanny state and high hiz HSE getting in the way.

For example, a cyclist breaks red lights and gets flattened by a car or bus, that is simply the weaker and more stupid dying off and perhaps others may learn from seeing the incident.

Another example is all those people in high viz simply "keeping everyone safe" around the luas works. Others should simply be careful and if one or two people die in the process then it may makes others more careful.

I cannot figure this out, it's not as if there are not already enough humans in the world!

Paz-CCFC

Ah, death by high tech cars and trams, just as nature has intended for millennia.

One eyed Jack

What's the question?

kneemos

Compassionate sort ain't ya?

arse..biscuits

If you can die from touching a peanut, god doesn't want you to live.

Burger Please

To be fair, if my taxes could be reduced by reducing the spending on health and safety and nanny state campaigns, I am all for it, even if some don't fair out so well!

ShiddyArze

I trust that when you are in agony, on your deathbed with some nasty disease, You will refuse all medical help?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

OP, that piece shows a complete ignorance of what 'natural selection' means.

Summer wind

Maybe it's because to the world you may be just one person, but to one person you may be the world:)

One eyed Jack

Burger Please wrote: »

To be fair, if my taxes could be reduced by reducing the spending on health and safety and nanny state campaigns, I am all for it, even if some don't fair out so well!

That's an argument though that could come back to bite you. The more people who are bumped off early, the more taxes you end up paying for the risk averse pricks!

El_Duderino 09

Just for the record, this is a classic case of blame the victim. It's less controversial than the classic rape cases where people like to blame the victim, but it's the same thing.

OP I'll take a stab and predict that you've never lost someone close to you, you don't work in a manual job, you have completely taken for granted the danger that the team world presents and the safety given to you be the HSE.

What about the people who are ht by a drink driver? Their own fault I suppose?

wokingvoter

Burger Please wrote: »

I have a simple, yet important question.

Why is it that we as humans, (or at lease some of us) cannot simply let natural selection take place as nature intended it without the nanny state and high hiz HSE getting in the way.

For example, a cyclist breaks red lights and gets flattened by a car or bus, that is simply the weaker and more stupid dying off and perhaps others may learn from seeing the incident.

Another example is all those people in high viz simply "keeping everyone safe" around the luas works. Others should simply be careful and if one or two people die in the process then it may makes others more careful.

I cannot figure this out, it's not as if there are not already enough humans in the world!

Imagine your beloved close family member is distracted for one second while crossing the road, say blinded by sunlight, and is smashed into the ground by a 3 ton truck.
You've been brought to the morgue to identify her cold bloodied still dead body.
Are you going to stand there, shrug , and say to the orderly "that's natural selection for ya" before strolling away nonchalantly ?

Xaracatz

If God wanted us to wear hi viz, we would have been born with a shiny vest on our backs.

Some flashing lights on our sides wouldn't go amiss. Well, unless we were trying to hide from predators at night.

And the power of invisibility. That would be cool.

Anyway, to return to the point, if God wanted me to respond properly to an OP, he would have given me a better attention span.

Coopaloop

I thought those 'high viz guys' were checking for people who hadn't bought a ticket??? But yeah I hear ya,we should just let people walk under buses and the like, shame on them for being so "careless"!!!! ðŸ˜

kneemos

Xaracatz wrote: »

If God wanted us to wear hi viz, we would have been born with a shiny vest on our backs.

Some flashing lights on our sides wouldn't go amiss. Well, unless we were trying to hide from predators at night.

And the power of invisibility. That would be cool.

Anyway, to return to the point, if God wanted me to respond properly to an OP, he would have given me a better attention span.

If God didn't want you to fall over he (yes he) would have given you four legs.

Burger Please

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Just for the record, this is a classic case of blame the victim. It's less controversial than the classic rape cases where people like to blame the victim, but it's the same thing.

OP I'll take a stab and predict that you've never lost someone close to you, you don't work in a manual job, you have completely taken for granted the danger that the team world presents and the safety given to you be the HSE.

What about the people who are ht by a drink driver? Their own fault I suppose?

By HSE I am referring to the health and safety executive. I do not work in a manual job, but know may who do and are very good at their profession and have many complaints regarding H&S.

I have lost many close to me, in fact I one of the only one of my direct family alive, only child you see. Some deaths were natural some not, that is the way of the world, no point crying over spilt milk.

Being hit by a drink driver is different, the drink driver should be severely punished.

As for your first case, that is very circumstantial, however should their be clear cut evidence and not a crying in court verdict then the guilty should be neutered.

Burger Please

wokingvoter wrote: »

Imagine your beloved close family member is distracted for one second while crossing the road, say blinded by sunlight, and is smashed into the ground by a 3 ton truck.
You've been brought to the morgue to identify her cold bloodied still dead body.
Are you going to stand there, shrug , and say to the orderly "that's natural selection for ya" before strolling away nonchalantly ?

Again have seen the results of family members accidents first hand, what is done is done. Suck it up, move on and be more careful than they were!

wokingvoter

Burger Please wrote: »

By HSE I am referring to the health and safety executive. I do not work in a manual job, but know may who do and are very good at their profession and have many complaints regarding H&S.

I have lost many close to me, in fact I one of the only one of my direct family alive, only child you see. Some deaths were natural some not, that is the way of the world, no point crying over spilt milk.

Being hit by a drink driver is different, the drink driver should be severely punished.

As for your first case, that is very circumstantial, however should their be clear cut evidence and not a crying in court verdict then the guilty should be neutered.

This doesn't make any sense. It's gibberish. I put a scenario to you. I'd really like if you could even try to answer the question ?

wokingvoter

Burger Please wrote: »

Again have seen the results of family members accidents first hand, what is done is done. Suck it up, move on and be more careful than they were!

So you have experienced the accidental death of a family member who you were close to, and your reaction was to just suck it up and muse that what's done is done.
You must be highly bemused when you see news reports of grief stricken families at funerals following tragic house fires and such like. It was , after all , they're own fault that the house went up in flames. All the kids are dead, so what? what the f**k are they crying about?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Burger Please wrote: »

By HSE I am referring to the health and safety executive. I do not work in a manual job, but know may who do and are very good at their profession and have many complaints regarding H&S.

I have lost many close to me, in fact I one of the only one of my direct family alive, only child you see. Some deaths were natural some not, that is the way of the world, no point crying over spilt milk.

Being hit by a drink driver is different, the drink driver should be severely punished.

As for your first case, that is very circumstantial, however should their be clear cut evidence and not a crying in court verdict then the guilty should be neutered.

HSA. Authority A. A.
By your own standards you have fallen short on natural section.

tomwaterford

Burger Please wrote: »

By HSE I am referring to the health and safety executive. I do not work in a manual job, but know may who do and are very good at their profession and have many complaints regarding H&S.

I have lost many close to me, in fact I one of the only one of my direct family alive, only child you see. Some deaths were natural some not, that is the way of the world, no point crying over spilt milk.

Being hit by a drink driver is different, the drink driver should be severely punished.

As for your first case, that is very circumstantial, however should their be clear cut evidence and not a crying in court verdict then the guilty should be neutered.

Why are we neutering guilty people?

Burger Please

wokingvoter wrote: »

So you have experienced the accidental death of a family member who you were close to, and your reaction was to just suck it up and muse that what's done is done.
You must be highly bemused when you see news reports of grief stricken families at funerals following tragic house fires and such like. It was , after all , they're own fault that the house went up in flames. All the kids are dead, so what? what the f**k are they crying about?

Precisely, if I was to feel bad for them ever day it would not help me or them or those around me.

In your example case, what would crying achieve, utilize your home insurance if you can. Be thankful they got out alive!

El_Duderino 09

Burger Please wrote:

By HSE I am referring to the health and safety executive. I do not work in a manual job, but know may who do and are very good at their profession and have many complaints regarding H&S.

We're talking about out the same HSE. So some of your best friends are black, I mean manual labourers... So what if some people complain about H&S? Sometimes it's a pain in the are, and it's one of the best things humans have ever implemented. I've worked on building sites and was very grateful that I had steel toecap boots and a helmet.

Burger Please wrote:

I have lost many close to me, in fact I one of the only one of my direct family alive, only child you see. Some deaths were natural some not, that is the way of the world, no point crying over spilt milk.

No offence but this is a completely unnatural reaction to death of close family members. Not saying you're not telling the truth, but the reaction you're describing is not normal. Could you take my word for it that most people get really upset for months after someone close to them dies. Some people never get over the death of a loved one. H&S prevents unnecessary deaths and unnecessary suffering.

Burger Please wrote:

Being hit by a drink driver is different, the drink driver should be severely punished.

Now you've ignored the original point about paying for health. Should the drunk driver's victim be treated in hospital? What kind of natural selection you're talking about?

On an aside, why is there a justice system in your natural selection world? Wouldn't it be better if the strong just killed off the weak?

Burger Please wrote:

As for your first case, that is very circumstantial, however should their be clear cut evidence and not a crying in court verdict then the guilty should be neutered.

You missed my point but again you wanted to talk about punishment instead of restoring the victim to health.

Ps. The point I made about victim blaming is that people blame the victim as a means to distance themselves from the possibility of the event happening to them. Eg the woman was raped because she was wearing... or was drunk or was asking for it. The subtext is that it couldn't happen to you because you wouldn't wear... or be so drunk or ask for it.

Your scenario assumes that people who have industrial accidents are worthy of their injuries because they're stupid and deserve natural selection to tske uts course. That wouldn't happen to you of course because...

Burger Please

Damon Nutty Skepticism wrote: »

HSA. Authority A. A.
By your own standards you have fallen short on natural section.

You never asked where I was from : http://www.hse.gov.uk/

Granted I am a brit but due to a project at work I am essentially stuck in Ireland for a year!

HardenendMan

It is actually BECAUSE OF natural selection that we don't let whatever will be will be. Our brains evolved so much that we began to feel empathy and illogical bonds with each other.

kneemos

Burger Please wrote: »

You never asked where I was from : http://www.hse.gov.uk/

Granted I am a brit but due to a project at work I am essentially stuck in Ireland for a year!

You were posting here two years ago?

Barry Badrinath

Burger Please wrote: »

You never asked where I was from : http://www.hse.gov.uk/

Granted I am a brit but due to a project at work I am essentially stuck in Ireland for a year!

If you want a chip for your burger, check your shoulder.

El_Duderino 09

Burger Please wrote:

You never asked where I was from :

I was in the HSE headquarters in Bootle, outside Liverpool, only a couple of weeks ago. The walls in the main hall are lined with famous industrial accidents and the numbers of people who died. Mine collapses, pump stations explosion, London underground fire.

If you worked in a mine, and the mine collapsed and you died because there are no standards, how was natural selection served? You didn't cause the collapse.

You don't really know what natural selection is, do you?

Annasopra

One eyed Jack wrote: »

What's the question?

Why cant we destoroy the weak and poor?

wokingvoter

Burger Please wrote: »

Precisely, if I was to feel bad for them ever day it would not help me or them or those around me.

In your example case, what would crying achieve, utilize your home insurance if you can. Be thankful they got out alive!

I'm not asking you to fee sorry for people on the TV , people unknown to you, who have had a horrific life event ( although most humans do).
I am asking you to imagine that your children have been killed in a house fire.
It's ok though youve explained that you would would feel that crying would achieve nothing, and you would be pleased with yourself that you were careful enough to have bought house insurance, so your material belongings would be restored and you could put a roof over them.
I have no idea what you mean by "be thankful they got out alive!" Who?!?

Junkyard Tom

Hitler.

Burger Please

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We're talking about out the same HSE. So some of your best friends are black, I mean manual labourers... So what if some people complain about H&S? Sometimes it's a pain in the are, and it's one of the best things humans have ever implemented. I've worked on building sites and was very grateful that I had steel toecap boots and a helmet.

Yes many of my friends are black, white, and what ever other colour or race you want to class them by, I don't give a f, where people come from or what their religion is, colour skin etc.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No offence but this is a completely unnatural reaction to death of close family members. Not saying you're not telling the truth, but the reaction you're describing is not normal. Could you take my word for it that most people get really upset for months after someone close to them dies. Some people never get over the death of a loved one. H&S prevents unnecessary deaths and unnecessary suffering.

It's the way I deal with. I get some people cannot get their heads straight and moan for weeks and try to get time off work while very important deals are happening. Royal pain if you ask me. I took zero days off when similar events happened, hell, it was bonus session!

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Now you've ignored the original point about paying for health. Should the drunk driver's victim be treated in hospital? What kind of natural selection you're talking about?

Health insurance is there to protect one from the actions of others who are lesser. The victim should be treated if he/she/it(have to be pc) survive, if they die, well bad luck.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

On an aside, why is there a justice system in your natural selection world? Wouldn't it be better if the strong just killed off the weak?

Wouldn't be great for moral, the guilty should be given simple tasks they cannot screw up. Would be the most straight forward solution

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You missed my point but again you wanted to talk about punishment instead of restoring the victim to health.

Ps. The point I made about victim blaming is that people blame the victim as a means to distance themselves from the possibility of the event happening to them. Eg the woman was raped because she was wearing... or was drunk or was asking for it. The subtext is that it couldn't happen to you because you wouldn't wear... or be so drunk or ask for it.

Your scenario assumes that people who have industrial accidents are worthy of their injuries because they're stupid and deserve natural selection to tske uts course. That wouldn't happen to you of course because...

Of course it wouldn't, I don't work in an industrial environment but I drive etc. As far the drunk, cloths, asking for it question, I do drink and I don't wear mini skirts (Girls wear skirts and Scottish men sometimes wear kilts, I am neither a girl or Scottish).

DontThankMe

We should create or own Colosseum here in Ireland, with the long term dole scroungers fighting to the death as gladiators. The victor gets to keep his dole and loser will save the government a few euro on social welfare expenditure. It may also encourage people to seek out employment instead of having to fight to the death for their dole.

Burger Please

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I was in the HSE headquarters in Bootle, outside Liverpool, only a couple of weeks ago. The walls in the main hall are lined with famous industrial accidents and the numbers of people who died. Mine collapses, pump stations explosion, London underground fire.

If you worked in a mine, and the mine collapsed and you died because there are no standards, how was natural selection served? You didn't cause the collapse.

You don't really know what natural selection is, do you?

I do, if the above accident happened it would be my bad luck and that would be that. I wouldn't care any ways because I would be dead and there would certainly be no one on earth who wouldn't get over it with a few beers and be back to work the next day

Burger Please

DontThankMe wrote: »

We should create or own Colosseum here in Ireland, with the long term dole scroungers fighting to the death as gladiators. The victor gets to keep his dole and loser will save the government a few euro on social welfare expenditure. It may also encourage people to seek out employment instead of having to fight to the death for their dole.

I like your thinking...
Might be a good spectator sport

El_Duderino 09

Burger Please wrote:

Yes many of my friends are black, white, and what ever other colour or race you want to class them by, I don't give a f, where people come from or what their religion is, colour skin etc.

Missing the point poster, missed the point.

Burger Please wrote:

It's the way I deal with. I get some people cannot get their heads straight and moan for weeks and try to get time off work while very important deals are happening. Royal pain if you ask me. I took zero days off when similar events happened, hell, it was bonus session!

Bonus?

On an aside, sociopaths are about 1% of the population. You could be 1/100 OP. You culd be nonplussed about that too.

Burger Please wrote:

Health insurance is there to protect one from the actions of others who are lesser. The victim should be treated if he/she/it(have to be pc) survive, if they die, well bad luck.

'Others who are lesser [...] have to be PC...'

Burger Please wrote:

Wouldn't be great for moral, the guilty should be given simple tasks they cannot screw up. Would be the most straight forward solution

Yes but it's only a temporary solution. You need a more long term solution. A solution with finality... a final solution, perhaps?

Burger Please wrote:

Of course it wouldn't, I don't work in an industrial environment but I drive etc. As far the drunk, cloths, asking for it question, I do drink and I don't wear mini skirts (Girls wear skirts and Scottish men sometimes wear kilts, I am neither a girl or Scottish).

Missing the point poster, misses the point again.

kupus

Burger Please wrote: »

By HSE I am referring to the health and safety executive. I do not work in a manual job, but know may who do and are very good at their profession and have many complaints regarding H&S.

I have lost many close to me, in fact I one of the only one of my direct family alive, only child you see. Some deaths were natural some not, that is the way of the world, no point crying over spilt milk.

Being hit by a drink driver is different, the drink driver should be severely punished.

As for your first case, that is very circumstantial, however should their be clear cut evidence and not a crying in court verdict then the guilty should be neutered.

Burger Please wrote: »

Again have seen the results of family members accidents first hand, what is done is done. Suck it up, move on and be more careful than they were!

It looks like you've too much common sense for this place, the nanny state snowflakes here will go on a meltdown....

And for the record H&S is the biggest con job since the telecom eireann stock market con job.

Burger Please

I am not a sociopath, I do not take pleasure in the suffering of others. I just do not like them to cost me, be it tax, wasting my time etc.

And Bonus session overrides all. BTW I don't need a final solution, I won't be around that long.

Burger Please

I am not a sociopath, I do not take pleasure in the suffering of others. I just do not like them to cost me, be it tax, wasting my time etc.

And Bonus session overrides all. BTW I don't need a final solution, I won't be around that long.

kowloon

How far are you willing to take this natural selection thing? Could you show a small bit of compassion and smash in my head with a rock rather than leave me die over a few days?

El_Duderino 09

Burger Please wrote:

I am not a sociopath, I do not take pleasure in the suffering of others. I just do not like them to cost me, be it tax, wasting my time etc.

Sociopaths don't necessarily take pleasure in the suffering of others. They lack the empathy to care about the suffering of others or the impact that suffering can cause on others.

Thusly

Burger Please wrote:

It's the way I deal with. I get some people cannot get their heads straight and moan for weeks and try to get time off work while very important deals are happening. Royal pain if you ask me. I took zero days off when similar events happened, hell, it was bonus session!

And sociopaths have a grandiose sense if self worth, sometimes they see others as 'lesser'. See if you can spot that sentiment in the quote below...

Burger Please wrote:

Health insurance is there to protect one from the actions of others who are lesser. The victim should be treated if he/she/it(have to be pc) survive, if they die, well bad luck.

That's enough of that.

RDM_83 again

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I was in the HSE headquarters in Bootle, outside Liverpool, only a couple of weeks ago. The walls in the main hall are lined with famous industrial accidents and the numbers of people who died. Mine collapses, pump stations explosion, London underground fire.

If you worked in a mine, and the mine collapsed and you died because there are no standards, how was natural selection served? You didn't cause the collapse.

You don't really know what natural selection is, do you?

Have you worked on a major infrastructure site in the last couple of years, the health and safety can be extremely over the top and at times make very little sense if you think about it.

Examples- mandatory gloves all times with people being called up on it- thing is because we needed to be able to write we ended up wearing thin plastic ones, therefore if allowed to do that abrasion isn't the hazard, we could also wear weave gloves so expose to COSHH/Biologicals isn't a hazard.

Similar with goggles

Putting in elaborate fall protection in work areas for drops of like 0.4 meters that mean your banging of scaffolding the entire time

Simply because something is rail/electric project full high vis leaves trousers for rail) insulated for electric even if the project is 1st stages and there might not be a machine or cables in miles and the temperatures could be 35C so heat stroke is a real risk.

Mandatory briefings each morning covering the same material every single fcuking day.

Drug testing so the person that has a joint on a saturday afternoon in the park is screwed but the guys who binge on coke on a friday then work a 60 hour week is fine (actually simply the high working hours in general by some operatives).

Being told to report everything no matter how minor by management, people do this, get a load of sh-t because the accident rate is now apparently high.

At the same time work practices that will eventually screw you up after 5-10 years of doing the job are fine because it won't land the contractor in any trouble.

All this petty minor stuff but at the same time you can do the CSCS and SAFEPASS in foreign languages so you can end up with a banksman/topman who you can't communicate with.

I'm completely onboard with proper health and safety but depending who the main contractor is its not about health and safety its a weapon against employees, can be seen by when they want us off site they ramp up the health and safety inspections.

jigglypuffstuff

So OP.... when do you start your new job as bus driver?

Rothko

DontThankMe wrote: »

We should create or own Colosseum here in Ireland, with the long term dole scroungers fighting to the death as gladiators. The victor gets to keep his dole and loser will save the government a few euro on social welfare expenditure. It may also encourage people to seek out employment instead of having to fight to the death for their dole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpa7wEAz7I

El_Duderino 09

RDM_83 again wrote:

I'm completely onboard with proper health and safety but depending who the main contractor is its not about health and safety its a weapon against employees, can be seen by when they want us off site they ramp up the health and safety inspections.

Of it becomes impractical then it ought to be amended. But it should not be done away with, as the OP suggested.

Burger Please

Burger Please wrote: »

Health insurance is there to protect one from the actions of others who are lesser...

Ironic given the OP, but the thread is dull of car crash stuff like this.

The OP speaks a lot about people who are greater or lesser. I think one thing that always points to lesser is where a person is way out if his or her depth but keeps wading on...and clearly doesn't have the self awareness to spot it.

Capt'n Midnight

One eyed Jack wrote: »

What's the question?

OP was wondering it would take for us to evolve from being creatures able to cope with running speed to being able to navigate traffic at the velocity of a velocipede and maybe we'd develop thicker skulls thus ending the helmet debate.