Eir's IPTV services and device?

MichaelR · 20-05-2016 7:07pm #1

Hello,

Does anyone know more about how Eir's TV services work? namely:

- What is the data speed the TV box uses?
- Will the TV box also play MKV/MP4/AVI files?
- Will the TV box also work with Netflix?

colm_mcm · 20-05-2016 8:01pm

I think eir drop your speed by 10mb per box.
I'm pretty sure Netflix isn't integrated into the box. Vodafones box does this though.

MichaelR · 20-05-2016 9:02pm

Thanks!

10 mb is too much, I'd easily get over a terabyte/month (Eir FUP) if this sort of TV runs in the background. Oops...

Netflix's non-HD option is great (0.3 or 0.7 Gb/hour). Wish there was a good TV box that could limit all streaming to non-HD, thus avoiding FUP issues.

godtabh · 20-05-2016 9:05pm

I have Eir tv. Never had an issue with data

tsue921i8wljb3 · 20-05-2016 9:22pm

godtabh wrote: »

I have Eir tv. Never had an issue with data

The IPTV traffic is not counted as part of the FUP.

colm_mcm · 20-05-2016 9:25pm

MichaelR wrote: »

Thanks!

10 mb is too much, I'd easily get over a terabyte/month (Eir FUP) if this sort of TV runs in the background. Oops...

Netflix's non-HD option is great (0.3 or 0.7 Gb/hour). Wish there was a good TV box that could limit all streaming to non-HD, thus avoiding FUP issues.

10 mb is the speed they reduce your profile by.
nothing to do with usage, which isnt affected by the tv.

life's too short to be watching stuff in SD. Although I think Netflix have an SD option now. Saw an email about price going up.

MichaelR · 20-05-2016 9:29pm

Kane Helpless Cord wrote: »

The IPTV traffic is not counted as part of the FUP.

I have asked Eir (probably sales) on the phone today about this and they said IPTV traffic was included in the FUP.

This is a good question to ask on their Talk To forum, though, and I'll go ask it.

And yes, Netflix has an SD option. I am using it. I currently don't even use the 22 inch screen (it has no box to feed it), and SD is quite sufficient for the screens we use, which are 15 inch (laptop) and 5 inch (mobile phone).

tsue921i8wljb3 · 20-05-2016 9:42pm

MichaelR wrote: »

I have asked Eir (probably sales) on the phone today about this and they said IPTV traffic was included in the FUP.

This is a good question to ask on their Talk To forum, though, and I'll go ask it.

And yes, Netflix has an SD option. I am using it. I currently don't even use the 22 inch screen (it has no box to feed it), and SD is quite sufficient for the screens we use, which are 15 inch (laptop) and 5 inch (mobile phone).

I mean eir's own IPTV service is not counted. Obviously Netflix and other third party services are counted.

godtabh · 20-05-2016 9:44pm

The basically set aside 10mb of your line for TV only. The rest is for you to do with what you please

ED E · 20-05-2016 10:59pm

Its 8Mb for HD and 6 for SD.

bk · 21-05-2016 7:51am

ED E wrote: »

Its 8Mb for HD and 6 for SD.

Are you sure about 6 for SD! 2 to 3 should be absolutely fine for SD, DVD quality at 2 with MPEG4.

Perhaps they are using MPEG2 for SD, but that would be idiotic thing to do!

ED E · 21-05-2016 1:52pm

Thats the figure they were quoting, I suspect both figures include a safety buffer.

MichaelR · 24-05-2016 11:13am

http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057600196/1

Asked Eir. They do not count count their own Vision (TV) traffic in the FUP when you are using their box, but they deduct 20 MB from the speed, reserving it just for Vision - making the offer somewhat tough on a 30MB line.

ED E · 24-05-2016 11:18am

Didnt read the whole thing but you'd only lose 20Mb with 3x STBs on at the same time.

mass_debater · 24-05-2016 5:00pm

ED E wrote: »

Didnt read the whole thing but you'd only lose 20Mb with 3x STBs on at the same time.

They usually reduce the profile by 20mbit and fix it. On a 30 mbit profile they'd prob drop to 18 for one box

ED E · 24-05-2016 6:39pm

Well, that a simplification:

eg:
50_15 RA line
Buys TV
43_16 FR applied (If they werent left at 50_16)
With STBs off thats -7
With 1 HD STB On thats -15
With 2 HD STBs On thats -23

So it really depends on your line. Many lines won't see a drop when pushed to FR, many will. Also if you have 3x TVs on the chances are you only have light internet usage. So its really not terrible but hard for a sales person to explain without confusing the person they're trying to upsell.

plodder · 25-05-2016 12:59pm

It makes sense to prioritise TV traffic but I don't see why they have to permanently reduce your bandwidth, eg when not using TV. Also again, I'd expect normal broadcast TV services not to affect FUP, but catchup services and anything on demand, would eat into it.

bk · 27-05-2016 12:22pm

ED E wrote: »

Well, that a simplification:

eg:
50_15 RA line
Buys TV
43_16 FR applied (If they werent left at 50_16)
With STBs off thats -7
With 1 HD STB On thats -15
With 2 HD STBs On thats -23

So it really depends on your line. Many lines won't see a drop when pushed to FR, many will. Also if you have 3x TVs on the chances are you only have light internet usage. So its really not terrible but hard for a sales person to explain without confusing the person they're trying to upsell.

A 50_15 RA line goes to 40_16 stable so a -10 automatic lose there.

It is 50_20 RA that goes to 43_16, sorry I know nit picking.

Worst lose is 100_20 goes to 85_20 so a -15 lose.

Which all seem to be a significant improvement since the last time I looked. 100_20 use to drop to 80 and 50_15 use to drop to 34_16, so it seems Eir are getting better performance out of their FTTC then originally expected and have passed on those improvements, great news.

I wonder does Vodafone also move you to the stable profiles if you sign up to their TV service too?

I also wonder if Vodafone might be using the newer HEVC codec for better bitrates.

plodder wrote: »

It makes sense to prioritise TV traffic but I don't see why they have to permanently reduce your bandwidth, eg when not using TV. Also again, I'd expect normal broadcast TV services not to affect FUP, but catchup services and anything on demand, would eat into it.

The idea is to put you on a more stable line. It wouldn't be possible to dynamically switch profiles if you are using the TV or not.

However I'm really not sure the stable profiles are needed at all. Most people are happily using youtube HD and Netflix HD on Eirs rate adaptive service with no issues.

I'd really question if Eir used more efficient codec like HEVC with better error correction codes and some buffering, if moving people to stable profiles is even necessary.

ED E · 27-05-2016 12:25pm

Stable profiles are required for muticast traffic to be fed to your port so all providers will have it.

It makes sense to a degree but IMO they're too aggressive, DLM would probably be a better approach but that's not something eircom wanted to do.

MichaelR · 27-05-2016 1:29pm

I don't understand the terms used but I understand enough to avoid that service on a 30M line. (Likely 30_8 profile?)

bk · 27-05-2016 1:51pm

MichaelR wrote: »

I don't understand the terms used but I understand enough to avoid that service on a 30M line. (Likely 30_8 profile?)

It would be borderline, I certainly wouldn't do it with many people in a house and a few TV's, but might be ok if there is just one or two of you.

MichaelR · 27-05-2016 2:40pm

The only real reason to have it is to bypass the FUP. But I guess I can have enough TV without hitting the FUP if I just make sure everything is SD. And I have more speed/flexibility that way.

bk · 28-05-2016 10:19am

MichaelR wrote: »

The only real reason to have it is to bypass the FUP. But I guess I can have enough TV without hitting the FUP if I just make sure everything is SD. And I have more speed/flexibility that way.

Well if you get TV from Sky, Virgin, Freesat, etc. you wouldn't have to worry about a FUP either.

plodder · 31-05-2016 3:47pm

ED E wrote: »

Stable profiles are required for muticast traffic to be fed to your port so all providers will have it.

It makes sense to a degree but IMO they're too aggressive, DLM would probably be a better approach but that's not something eircom wanted to do.

Right, I hadn't twigged that point. Multicast being UDP means there is no error detection and retry (a la TCP).

I've used Sky Go a bit and it's obviously TCP based. So, it has the interesting property that as errors occur the transmission gradually drifts further and further from the original live signal.

But, if fibre (FTTH) is really as reliable as claimed then it's hard to see such an aggressive reduction being justified (in FTTH environments at least). I presume as they get experience with it, they can fine tune these things.

ED E · 31-05-2016 3:56pm

plodder wrote: »

Right, hadn't twigged that point. Multicast being UDP means there is no error detection and retry (a la TCP).

I've used Sky Go a bit and it's obviously TCP based. So, it has the interesting property that as errors occur the transmission gradually drifts further and further from the original live signal.

But, if fibre (FTTH) is really as reliable as claimed then it's hard to see such an aggressive reduction being justified. I presume as they get experience with it, they can fine tune these things.

Just to clarify here as you've mentioned it, High Stability profiles apply to eFibre(VDSL/FTTC) but do not apply to eFibre Ultimate(FTTH). FTTH users will only see bandwidth reservations.

plodder · 31-05-2016 4:11pm

ED E wrote: »

Just to clarify here as you've mentioned it, High Stability profiles apply to eFibre(VDSL/FTTC) but do not apply to eFibre Ultimate(FTTH). FTTH users will only see bandwidth reservations.

That's interesting. So, what exactly is a FTTH bandwidth reservation? Is it permanently "on" in the same way as a profile is fixed?

ED E · 31-05-2016 4:56pm

VDSL:

Stable profile applied when you order a TV product.

Bandwidth reserved (6-8Mb) when set top boxes are turned on. (eir)

FTTH:

Bandwidth reserved (6-8Mb) when set top boxes are turned on. (eir)

Providers can reserve whatever bandwidth they like as its done in the home gateway. If you have a 150Mb connection then losing even 15Mb for a 4K H264 stream isnt terrible, a lot different to 8Mb off a 30Mb VDSL line.

plodder · 31-05-2016 5:10pm

ED E wrote: »

VDSL:

Stable profile applied when you order a TV product.

Bandwidth reserved (6-8Mb) when set top boxes are turned on. (eir)

FTTH:

Bandwidth reserved (6-8Mb) when set top boxes are turned on. (eir)

Providers can reserve whatever bandwidth they like as its done in the home gateway. If you have a 150Mb connection then losing even 15Mb for a 4K H264 stream isnt terrible, a lot different to 8Mb off a 30Mb VDSL line.

True. Though, either way you'd like to think the reservation only happens when STB is displaying or recording something, and not just sitting there with TV turned off (maybe waiting to record something later). Maybe it does anyway..

Anyhow, thanks. Excellent info as always! I look forward to the day when this question actually has relevance for my setup at home

Eir's IPTV services and device?

Comments