It's here...May 20th....TPD

youdipstick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iaa_Rzk7xk

Thecageyone

Cant stand that Vic guy, but aye, it's here, and we're still alive.

JackieChang

No difference. Bought juice today, didn't get arrested.

chipfox

I don't really get it. Has the legislation been transposed into Irish Law? It is identical legislation for all EU members? How can their be different implementations?

8mm

It's a directive with minimum requirements that have to be met but each country can add more restrictions on top of that.

A law without enforcement isn't much of a law at all and that's were things could get interesting. Vendors will now have to be licensed and I would presume that a vendor is threatened with loss of licence if they don't comply but then who is checking for compliance? The other area is customs and now that vaping falls under tobacco they may get quite restrictive on what they let through or charge customs duty for as there is no minimum limit on value for tobacco products.

the evasion_kid

I'm wondering how this will work,ive a shipment of ecig products due to arrive this week

chipfox

Really tempted to buy a few litres of nicotine now. Apparently is doesn't freeze in a freezer and some places will do multiple 100ml bottles for ya

youdipstick

the evasion_kid wrote: »

I'm wondering how this will work,ive a shipment of ecig products due to arrive this week

You have no worries,the TPD has stopped all ecig advertising on the 20th May,the time to panic is November & this depends how much stock Vendors will have left.If the vendor stocks up well before Nov,he can keep selling all that stock until the following May 2017

the evasion_kid

youdipstick wrote: »

You have no worries,the TPD has stopped all ecig advertising on the 20th May,the time to panic is November & this depends how much stock Vendors will have left.If the vendor stocks up well before Nov,he can keep selling all that stock until the following May 2017

I though that was just the UK?I was onto my supplier,they said companies in Germany are stocking up

youdipstick

the evasion_kid wrote: »

I though that was just the UK?I was onto my supplier,they said companies in Germany are stocking up

Any vendor can stock up as much as they like but when Nov hits,they cannot sell anything that is new to the market after Nov...

youdipstick

chipfox wrote: »

Really tempted to buy a few litres of nicotine now. Apparently is doesn't freeze in a freezer and some places will do multiple 100ml bottles for ya

My freezer is well stocked up with pg/vg & nic...

the evasion_kid

youdipstick wrote: »

Any vendor can stock up as much as they like but when Nov hits,they cannot sell anything that is new to the market after Nov...

Ah okay,i have tanks on the way

tommy2bad

chipfox wrote: »

I don't really get it. Has the legislation been transposed into Irish Law? It is identical legislation for all EU members? How can their be different implementations?

Yes the TPD is now transposed to Irish Law.http://health.gov.ie/blog/press-release/minister-for-health-simon-harris-signs-european-tobacco-products-directive-into-irish-law/
No its not identical in all EU states, the UK for example had adopted a very light touch set of regulations, Belgium and Austria have imposed 4000 euro product registration fees, yes 4000! Other states have added public use bans and internet sales bans to their regulations.
While not as loose as the UK Ireland have basically cut n pasted the tpd as written, what they have yet to do is set up the standards and procedures so until the running in period ends, 12 months I think, all we will see is a running down of over 20mg and over 10ml juice stock.
We wont see any new product as theirs no way to authorize it yet and then their will be a 6 month wait for it to come to market. This might impact product already on the shelves being restocked so lets hope suppliers have plenty.
Their will be no more TV, radio, or print advertising, in store and on a vendors website are fine for now. Flavors are fine for now. tanks and clearos over 2ml will run out as stock is sold, once gone they are gone! .

youdipstick

We need to buy more tanks that have an RBA deck cos the stock coils will eventually disappear.

the evasion_kid

youdipstick wrote: »

We need to buy more tanks that have an RBA deck cos the stock coils will eventually disappear.

The new tanks I have ordered are 2ml to comply with tpd

8mm

Business Plan:

Sell 66ml + 33ml Bottles of lovely flavoured VG. These bottles will contain 56ml or 26ml of flavour - can be used for anything a customer likes. We only sell for kitchen use and have nothing to do with e-cigs. We have 100's of flavour combos and add many more whenever we want.

We hear some users buy 10ml bottles of 20mg unflavoured nicotine from e-cig vendors and add it to our flavouring bottles. They then shake it up good and have a nice 66ml or 33ml bottle of juice with 3mg or 6mg of nic. We don't approve of this!

Poor e-cig people - Buy and enjoy our flavours in your kitchen. Kitchen use only - that's all we do!

the evasion_kid

8mm wrote: »

Business Plan:

Sell 66ml + 33ml Bottles of lovely flavoured VG. These bottles will contain 56ml or 26ml of flavour - can be used for anything a customer likes. We only sell for kitchen use and have nothing to do with e-cigs. We have 100's of flavour combos and add many more whenever we want.

We hear some users buy 10ml bottles of 20mg unflavoured nicotine from e-cig vendors and add it to our flavouring bottles. They then shake it up good and have a nice 66ml or 33ml bottle of juice with 3mg or 6mg of nic. We don't approve of this!

Poor e-cig people - Buy and enjoy our flavours in your kitchen. Kitchen use only - that's all we do!

Reminds me of eBay sellers selling poppy heads for "flower arranging\decoration"

jousting with chairs

8mm wrote: »

Business Plan:

Sell 66ml + 33ml Bottles of lovely flavoured VG. These bottles will contain 56ml or 26ml of flavour - can be used for anything a customer likes. We only sell for kitchen use and have nothing to do with e-cigs. We have 100's of flavour combos and add many more whenever we want.

We hear some users buy 10ml bottles of 20mg unflavoured nicotine from e-cig vendors and add it to our flavouring bottles. They then shake it up good and have a nice 66ml or 33ml bottle of juice with 3mg or 6mg of nic. We don't approve of this!

Poor e-cig people - Buy and enjoy our flavours in your kitchen. Kitchen use only - that's all we do!

Some companies have started doing this already, this is an email I got last week.


Chefs Vapour to Chefs Flavours
As you may be aware, the ridiculous TPD comes in to play on the 20th May 2016, we have made the decision to split the site in to two.

As of Monday 23rd May 2016, Chefs Vapour will sell all nicotine containing products and our new site Chefs Flavours will sell flavourings, PG, VG, and all other DIY supplies.

You will need to re-register on the new Chefs Flavours website which we know is a pain but we do have a lovely discount code for you to use when you create you new account. Put 'chefsflavours' in the discount box for 20% off your first order.

We also have some great new concentrates going on the site on Monday and some are exclusive to Chefs Flavours.

We hope you like the new site and understand the reasons behind it

Happy Mixing!

8mm

Indeed silly laws that they are.

2ml max tanks? How about a 3-part tank with the bottom that holds the atomiser, the top with the drip-tip and the 2ml middle section. BTW we sell replacement middle sections and oh we hear some of our customers connect and stack these middle sections to increase their juice capacity to 4ml.. 6ml.. and so on. We don't recommend this as we only sell 2ml tanks

jonski

I strongly thinking of investing in 8mm's business , are you listed on the stock exchange

Thecageyone

8mm wrote: »

Indeed silly laws that they are.

2ml max tanks? How about a 3-part tank with the bottom that holds the atomiser, the top with the drip-tip and the 2ml middle section. BTW we sell replacement middle sections and oh we hear some of our customers connect and stack these middle sections to increase their juice capacity to 4ml.. 6ml.. and so on. We don't recommend this as we only sell 2ml tanks

I thought about this too, there's nothing to stop sites selling separate glass for tanks, which increase the capacity.

tommy2bad

Thecageyone wrote: »

I thought about this too, there's nothing to stop sites selling separate glass for tanks, which increase the capacity.

This is the situation in the UK, replacement parts for tanks do not have to be authorised. We don't know if the Irish regulations will be as lienient. They could insist all parts be notified including drip tips.

chipfox

Going down the head shop route as predicted... It's not drugs, it's just a 30 euro baggie of white powder that you put in the bath.

chefsflavours..... my god. At least they'll be doing a 20% discount. They have a wide range of stuff, too bad the site isn't up yet.

redkid

The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous, pointless restrictions made by people who haven't a clue what they are doing in general even less in relation to vaping.

the evasion_kid

redkid wrote: »

The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous, pointless restrictions made by people who haven't a clue what they are doing in general even less in relation to vaping.

If there is one thing the EU do well(overkill) is regulations...33.30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqzcqDtL3k

RonyPonyBah

As a major player within this industry in Ireland and Europe i can safely say that the TPD will not stop us!!!!
Business will continue as normal but with a few changes, we have a found a few ways around things, expect 2016 and 2017 to be awesome years for the industry once again!

jno547

RonyPonyBah wrote: »

As a major player within this industry in Ireland and Europe i can safely say that the TPD will not stop us!!!!
Business will continue as normal but with a few changes, we have a found a few ways around things, expect 2016 and 2017 to be awesome years for the industry once again!

the evasion_kid

RonyPonyBah wrote: »

As a major player within this industry in Ireland and Europe i can safely say that the TPD will not stop us!!!!
Business will continue as normal but with a few changes, we have a found a few ways around things, expect 2016 and 2017 to be awesome years for the industry once again!

Hardly be worth it now,its bad enough with customs and handling fees

RonyPonyBah

the evasion_kid wrote: »

Hardly be worth it now,its bad enough with customs and handling fees

Won't have any need for importing stuff soon

the evasion_kid

RonyPonyBah wrote: »

Won't have any need for importing stuff soon

Throw in the VAT rate (unless you live in Luxembourg and enjoy 17%) and online fees,its hardly worth it,lot of work importing,packing and sending to customers for what you are left with...now throw in some good ol EU regulations. big business loves regulations,drives smaller business under.

jarek

so it's happening now, Finland's restrictions for example:



[10:15]
Petri Mäntysalo
13 hrs
Yesterday Finnish parliament passed (one of the) most stringent adaptation of TPD: all other flavors than tobacco are banned, cross-border AND domestic distant sales are banned, it is allowed to bring one 10ml bottle of e-liquid from abroad with you (you need to spend at least 24 hours outside of Finland), no grace period for present equipment that doesn't meet the TPD standards etc...
And today they announced that from January 1st 2017 there will be 3€ sin tax for a 10ml bottle of e-juice (nicotine or not)! So "think of children" and "save the citizens' health" turned out to be just a scheme to be able to tax the citizens...

more on fb / EVUN - European Vapers United Network

lee_baby_simms

Holy crap...that's draconian.

moleyv

Let's hope our lot don't get any ideas from that.

Do they not see that giving different flavour options is another way to cut links to cigarettes. I smoked for the flavour. Now it repulses me.

jarek

moleyv wrote: »

Let's hope our lot don't get any ideas from that.
.

honestly I'm really scared as it looks like they will;(

''Minister for Health Simon Harris T.D., has signed the Regulations transposing the Tobacco Products Directive into Irish law.''

Press Release

Minister for Health Simon Harris signs European Tobacco Products Directive into Irish law
20.5.2016

11
The Minister for Health Simon Harris T.D., has signed the Regulations transposing the Tobacco Products Directive into Irish law. The European Union (Manufacture, Presentation and Sale of Tobacco and Related Products) Regulations 2016 come into force today, 20 May 2016.

The Regulations provide for more stringent rules for tobacco and related products and, from a public health perspective, focuses on limiting their appeal, in particular to young people. The Regulations include measures for labelling, ingredients, tracking and tracing, cross border distance sales and the regulation of electronic cigarettes, refill containers, herbal products for smoking and novel tobacco products.

More than ten years have passed since the adoption of the first Tobacco Products Directive (2001/37/EC) making it necessary at EU level to bring it in line with market, scientific and international developments in the tobacco sector. The aim of the Directive is to harmonise laws on tobacco products and electronic cigarettes, to facilitate the smooth functioning of the internal market while assuring a high level of public health protection. [Irish presidency]

The Regulations include the following measures: –

A ban on cigarettes and roll-your-own tobacco with characterising flavours such as fruit flavours, menthol or vanilla;
A ban on tobacco products containing certain additives;
A ban on any misleading labelling (such as “natural” or “organic”);
Increased size for combined health warnings and a requirement to place them on the front and back of the product;
Additional reporting requirements for tobacco products;
Notification requirements for electronic cigarettes, refill containers, herbal and novel tobacco products;
Registration requirement for cross-border distance sales of tobacco products, electronic cigarettes or refill containers;
Introduction of a tracking and tracing system;
Regulation of electronic cigarettes and refill containers;
Stricter rules on advertising/sponsorship for electronic cigarettes and refill containers;
Mandatory safety and quality requirements for electronic cigarettes and refill containers;
The Minister in welcoming these Regulations stated “These measures will further complement the tobacco control initiatives already in place and will help to drive down consumption of tobacco and protect public health. I also welcome the clarity provided on the regulation of e-cigarettes, which will give confidence to users in the safety and efficacy of these products”.

“In the area of tobacco control, I am delighted to hear that the UK Government has successfully defended their Standardised Packaging legislation in the courts. I look forward to progressing our Standardised Packaging Regulations in the near future”.


Summin up, now we're in transition period, 20-may 2016 >> 20 may 2017, in this time Irish Gov and relevant bodies/agencies are working on mechanism to make it happen after 20 may 2017 IRISH GOV wil have all necessary instruments/infrastructure (to a tracking and tracing system, Registration requirement for cross-border distance sales of tobacco products, electronic cigarettes or refill containers; etc

moleyv

Simply transposing the TPD is nothing like the same as what is happening in Finland, they have gone way beyond the TPD requirements. So I'm not sure why you are saying we have gone beyond that?

I can get over the TPD requirements, anything beyond that (like Finland) would need further thought.

Jsmurff

I had better get stock piling fast so any plans for petitions or demonstrations/protests?

lee_baby_simms

jarek wrote: »

honestly I'm really scared as it looks like they will;(
....

There's nothing too bad in that, it's what we were prepared for to be fair.

8mm

There is no interest in harm reduction as such but complete annihilation of anything related to smoking. The tag line to this is abstain or die.

The potential for Ireland to follow suit like the Finnish is high given the progressive nature of smoking bans and big tax increases here. We are at the whim of whatever crowd gets into power and the majority of citizens are happy with this.

A bit surprised the Finns got hardcore so fast while the rest of us are on the slow boil.

redkid

Our clowns will wait to see what happens in the uk and then follow suit like the sheep they are, either that or they will try to go one better than the fins by shooting all the hipster vapers in the head and eliminating the haze of strawberry cheesecake smelling 'smoke' that's hovering over the country stopping the property market from taking off again and creating jobs...... its all our faults, we should have stayed on the fags

Jsmurff

redkid wrote: »

Our clowns will wait to see what happens in the uk and then follow suit like the sheep they are, either that or they will try to go one better than the fins by shooting all the hipster vapers in the head and eliminating the haze of strawberry cheesecake smelling 'smoke' that's hovering over the country stopping the property market from taking off again and creating jobs...... its all our faults, we should have stayed on the fags

I think they'll just stick with general TPD and then spend about 5 years upping the tax before making any personal changes

redkid

Well I was being sarcastic about shooting us but yea your right they will squeeze as much out of us as they can driving up the price

Jsmurff

I know but given the crap I've gotten off passers-by especially blatant name calling it wouldn't surprise me in the least if physical violence was stoked or flat out promoted.

I remember standing outside dealz in cork and puffing away and this scrawny git called me a pr1ck while eyeballing me out of the corner of his eye. Like a sir I politely offered him the opportunity to say it directly to my face instead of muttering it out of the corner of his mouth.

I have to say I've never seen someone turn such a pale shade of white before.

Just to be clear i hadn't bumped into this gentleman nor had I blown a cloud of vape into his face. He merely saw the e-cig in my hand and decided that made me a pr1ck. There have been many instances of this since but that was the first problem i had.

jno547

Finance officials say it would be 'too difficult' to put a tax on e-cigarettes
http://jrnl.ie/2900638