Trade in Prius against Leaf

n97 mini

Hoping for a few suggestions here as I've no experience of the EV scene. I'm looking for a 2-3 y.o. Leaf and would like to trade in our Prius against it.

What routes would people recommend? Are there specialist dealers that will do trade-ins?

Ta.

cros13

Any Nissan dealer (at least those that do the Leaf) should be able to handle your trade-in.

Definately go for a MK1.5 Leaf (that's pretty much 141 forward with a few 132s). The battery on the Mk1.5 has been showing little to no capacity loss even at very high mileages.

2nd thing is to purchase or borrow a bluetooth OBDII adapter and get Leaf Spy so you can check the battery health. Ask the dealer to ensure the car you are looking at is fully charged before you check it.

n97 mini

Cheers.

Maybe someone could confirm to me. I know it was leaked that ESB are going to start charging a monthly "standing charge" (another one!) for access to charge points and a per-minute charge for fast chargers, has this actually come into effect as I'm unable to find anything on ESB's website?

KCross

Its still free. For how long no one knows.
They did declare a price structure which was to come into effect a month or so ago but it was shot down by the regulator(I think).

BoatMad

Good selection of used leafs at Nissan dungarvan ( 3)

n97 mini

n97 mini wrote: »

Cheers.

Maybe someone could confirm to me. I know it was leaked that ESB are going to start charging a monthly "standing charge" (another one!) for access to charge points and a per-minute charge for fast chargers, has this actually come into effect as I'm unable to find anything on ESB's website?

I also suggest a gen 1.5 from late 132 onwards, it's got the darker interior and a separate "Heat" "AC" button on the climate control, the original leaf only had AC and the bright interior.

There are 3 trims in the Gen 1.5, Basic XE, then SV which adds sat nav and the heat pump which is a more efficient heater, it also has the option to remotely activate heat and AC from your smart phone, though heat and ac can still be set from timer on the XE.

The SVE top spec includes heated seats, and LED lights and nicer 17" wheels. Also a BOSE sound system but I don't find it great, BOSE are not brilliant anyway.

I would not worry about the ESB charges for public charging because 95+ % of your charging will be done at home mostly at night so it's not going to be much of an issue unless you depend heavly on the fast chargers but if you do then I suggest keeping the Prius until you can pick up a longer possibly 300+ km range EV from 2018 onwards though probably 2020-2021 before some become available 2nd hand.

n97 mini

Cheers. I've been looking at 2014 SV and SVE models.

As I won't be buying brand new I won't qualify for the "free" 16A/3.6kw home charge point from the ESB. Do people charge regularly using the (optional) granny cable or is that really only for emergencies?

One of the cars I was looking at doesn't have the 6.6kw option. Seems like that could be a deal breaker... are all the public charge points generally capable of 6.6kw?

n97 mini

n97 mini wrote: »

Cheers. I've been looking at 2014 SV and SVE models.

As I won't be buying brand new I won't qualify for the "free" 16A/3.6kw home charge point from the ESB. Do people charge regularly using the (optional) granny cable or is that really only for emergencies?

One of the cars I was looking at doesn't have the 6.6kw option. Seems like that could breaker... are all the public charge points generally capable of 6.6kw?

The Granny cable isn't designed as the main means of charging so a dedicated charge point is advisable not to Menton about twice as fast at 16 amps.

The cost of installation will be paid back quickly by not paying for petrol or diesel.

The public street chargers are 22 kW capable but Even if you have the 3.3 kW charger you can still use the fast chargers but the 6.6 kW is very useful and can mean you won't have to wait at fast chargers much if you can plug in in town but you might still need then in longer drives but the 6.6 kW charger should definitely cut down on the need to use fast chargers.

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

Cheers. I've been looking at 2014 SV and SVE models.

As I won't be buying brand new I won't qualify for the "free" 16A/3.6kw home charge point from the ESB. Do people charge regularly using the (optional) granny cable or is that really only for emergencies?

One of the cars I was looking at doesn't have the 6.6kw option. Seems like that could breaker... are all the public charge points generally capable of 6.6kw?

I bought 2nd hand as well so I didnt get the free charger. My car came with a granny cable and I use that every night. It works fine and nearly always has the car at 100% in the morning. If I run the car below 20% any day I would just start the charge earlier but I usually only have it charging between 0-9am for the night rate and it fully charges in that time so the granny cable is fine until you get the "proper" charger fitted.

The 3.3kw/6.6kw is not relevant for the rapid chargers. Its only relevant when you are using standard slow chargers like the one you will have at home or on-street chargers, car parks etc.
The LEAF has two connections at the front... Chademo (rapid) and Type 1 (Slow).

Most slow chargers will manage 6.6kw so its useful to have and will also mean it charges twice as fast at home which will be useful as sometimes we have to divert to the diesel in the evenings as the car isnt charged enough for the next journey and if we could give it an hour at 6.6kw it would boost it enough to take the next journey.

Most people dont have the 6.6kw and they survive, so its a personal decision whether you want/need it but like most things its better to be looking at it than looking for it!

BoatMad

given the home EVSE can be bought for 300 euros and fitting it , especially if you do the cable runs yourself , is a matter of a RECI electrician connecting it to the distribution board and fitting a suitable RCBO ( you can do the rest yourself ) should cost about 100 quid + parts, given you are spending thousands on the car, I fail to see why anyone wouldn't fit the home EVSE

slicedpanman

n97 mini wrote: »

As I won't be buying brand new I won't qualify for the "free" 16A/3.6kw home charge point from the ESB. Do people charge regularly using the (optional) granny cable or is that really only for emergencies?

We bought a 2nd hand SV 151 a couple of months back and did get the free charger and install.... You should check with the dealer - you may get one with a 2nd hand. In our case the previous owner didn't take up the offer of the free charger/install so that meant we could. Our dealer (in Limerick) also had a couple of other 2nd hand Leafs where the owner returned (I'm guessing sold) the charger back to the dealer with the car - so for those he was giving the 2nd hand charger free with the car (and throwing in a free install from his own electrician)

n97 mini

BoatMad wrote: »

I fail to see why anyone wouldn't fit the home EVSE

Those renting, or intending to move house in the near future.

slicedpanman

n97 mini wrote: »

BoatMad wrote: »

I fail to see why anyone wouldn't fit the home EVSE

Those renting, or intending to move house in the near future.

There are also those who are buying their 2nd EV and have a EVSE already installed

BoatMad

n97 mini wrote: »

Those renting, or intending to move house in the near future.

" edge cases" , they do not take away from my comment, that anyone investing the significant sums on money in a new of 2nd hand EV , can surely afford the few hundred needed to install an EVSE

cros13

Charging off the granny cable is also less efficient than using a proper EVSE. You lose an extra few percent to parasitic losses.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Charging off the granny cable is also less efficient than using a proper EVSE. You lose an extra few percent to parasitic losses.

Explain , since the granny cable is itself an EVSE

n97 mini

BoatMad wrote: »

" edge cases" , they do not take away from my comment, that anyone investing the significant sums on money in a new of 2nd hand EV , can surely afford the few hundred needed to install an EVSE

"Edge cases" maybe to you, but there are people for whom installing a fixed charge point is not an option and unrelated to cost.

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

Explain , since the granny cable is itself an EVSE

Many EV's chargers tend to have an efficiency sweet spot. My i3 charging off a granny cable at 10A pulls an additional kWh or two for a 17kWh charge vs charging above 20A.
The old revision of the Zoe was even less efficient off a granny cable.

BoatMad

n97 mini wrote: »

"Edge cases" maybe to you, but there are people for whom installing a fixed charge point is not an option and unrelated to cost.

I purely was addressing the monetary issue, I have acknowledge elsewhere that there are always situations where a permanent EVSE cannot be installed due to typically a lack of a suitable location

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Charging off the granny cable is also less efficient than using a proper EVSE. You lose an extra few percent to parasitic losses.

yes but such loss of efficiencies in reality relate to the cost of the charge rather then many extension of time . i.e. it is not less efficient in proportional time to charge from a granny cable

ted1

You'll get a better price selling the Prius privately . You should try that option first,

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

yes but such loss of efficiencies in reality relate to the cost of the charge rather then many extension of time . i.e. it is not less efficient in proportional time to charge from a granny cable

Sure, but if you building an economic case for installing a Type 2 Mode 3 chargepoint it's one more line on the spreadsheet.

Scottie99

n97 mini wrote: »

Cheers. I've been looking at 2014 SV and SVE models.

As I won't be buying brand new I won't qualify for the "free" 16A/3.6kw home charge point from the ESB. Do people charge regularly using the (optional) granny cable or is that really only for emergencies?

One of the cars I was looking at doesn't have the 6.6kw option. Seems like that could be a deal breaker... are all the public charge points generally capable of 6.6kw?

You can be entitled to a free home charger but just depends on the car you buy.
For instance, this car http://windsordeansgrange.nissan.ie/used-car/ev-sv-6kw-5dr-ph-brendan-086-0433007?destination=make=118_model=280_age=2014.1-2016.1 qualifies. How do I know? It's my auld one. I didn't take up the option of a homecharge because I've already have one. So, always ask the dealer..

n97 mini

Scottie99 wrote: »

You can be entitled to a free home charger but just depends on the car you buy.
For instance, this car http://windsordeansgrange.nissan.ie/used-car/ev-sv-6kw-5dr-ph-brendan-086-0433007?destination=make=118_model=280_age=2014.1-2016.1 qualifies. How do I know? It's my auld one. I didn't take up the option of a homecharge because I've already have one. So, always ask the dealer..

The "free" home charger is 3.6kw tho? Looking around I think I could get a 2014 SVE from the UK for 15k, and then a 6.6kw home charger installed for about 600 quid more.

macnab

Just making sure you know that most Leafs in Ireland come with the standard 3.3kw on board charger, make sure the SVE you are looking at has the higher spec 6.6kw charger if you want faster home charging.

n97 mini

Cheers, the 6.6kw is a must from what I can see as rapid chargers are sparse enough. Without the 6.6kw anything but local area driving for us would be out.

The 6.6 Kw is a great advantage but it doesn't at all mean you're restricted to local driving at all.

BoatMad

n97 mini wrote: »

Cheers, the 6.6kw is a must from what I can see as rapid chargers are sparse enough. Without the 6.6kw anything but local area driving for us would be out.

given a choice I would put my money into battery capacity before bigger on board chargers, it is of course nice to have both

however the FCP network in most parts of the country ( there are some clear blackspots in the west ) is more then adequate to allow for distance driving

for example , the M11 corridor to rosslare has , seven FCPs scattered along its length . most are no mor then 30-40 km apart, easy peasy for any Leaf ( and with most now having triple heads, any CCS car too)

equally I do for example 190km cross country Gorey to Athlone, five FCPS on that route ( gorey, carlow, portlaoise, kill began , athlone) again no more then about 30 km apart

Dublin waterford , 4 FCPs approx 40 km apart

Dublin Galway , 6 FCPS, admittedly Ballinalsoe Galway is 60km , but again not an issue

really we need to leave this idea behind that you cant travel long distances in a EV. yes there are some issues , but along the main drags and to a line east of ballinasloe , its a doddle

More range is better to have from your home charger obviously, but the larger 30 Kwh in my opinion should definitely have the 6.6 Kwh charger.

Fast chargers are great but the 6.6 for me at least has meant I can plug in town and in 1 hr 30 mins get from 48-50% -97% . 2 hrs 30-95% meaning I come out get in the car and drive home again, at the very least the 6.6 Kwh means a hell of a lot of time saved waiting at the fast charger which takes longer in the winter.

Those times quoted above are for the 24 Kwh the 30 Kwh will take longer to get to those charge % but gets the same amount of kms per hour on the equivalent 3.3 or 6.6 kw charger. 33-40 kms per hour on the charger at a decent speed V 16.5-20 Kms with the 3.3 Kw charger.

You can survive with the 3.3 kw charger but if spending so much on a car 900 isn't a lot extra, better to have it than want it and I'm sure as hell glad I've never wished I've had it but I am sure as hell glad I have it.

If spending the 900 can't be done then that's a different matter but to me , if buying 2nd hand I'd be looking for a car with the 6.6 Kw charger so it would no doubt make the car easier to sell on and sought after by the dealers as Deans grange were keen to get mine, because of the SVE spec and the the 6.6 KW charger when I had a mad notion to change to the 30 Kwh.

SO yes you can live with the 3.3 Kw as most people that have it will tell you, but they've no choice but to live with it, I have the 6.6 and can say I could live without it because I don't need it often but I'm mighty glad of it when I need it.

If a fast charger is down it will take half the time to get a useful charge than the 3.3 Kw charger.

peposhi

Deleted User wrote: »

More range is better to have from your home charger obviously, but the larger 30 Kwh in my opinion should definitely have the 6.6 Kwh charger.

Fast chargers are great but the 6.6 for me at least has meant I can plug in town and in 1 hr 30 mins get from 48-50% -97% . 2 hrs 30-95% meaning I come out get in the car and drive home again, at the very least the 6.6 Kwh means a hell of a lot of time saved waiting at the fast charger which takes longer in the winter.

Those times quoted above are for the 24 Kwh the 30 Kwh will take longer to get to those charge % but gets the same amount of kms per hour on the equivalent 3.3 or 6.6 kw charger. 33-40 kms per hour on the charger at a decent speed V 16.5-20 Kms with the 3.3 Kw charger.

You can survive with the 3.3 kw charger but if spending so much on a car 900 isn't a lot extra, better to have it than want it and I'm sure as hell glad I've never wished I've had it but I am sure as hell glad I have it.

If spending the 900 can't be done then that's a different matter but to me , if buying 2nd hand I'd be looking for a car with the 6.6 Kw charger so it would no doubt make the car easier to sell on and sought after by the dealers as Deans grange were keen to get mine, because of the SVE spec and the the 6.6 KW charger when I had a mad notion to change to the 30 Kwh.

SO yes you can live with the 3.3 Kw as most people that have it will tell you, but they've no choice but to live with it, I have the 6.6 and can say I could live without it because I don't need it often but I'm mighty glad of it when I need it.

If a fast charger is down it will take half the time to get a useful charge than the 3.3 Kw charger.

+1 here

I am on of those guys who now regrets listening to the sales rep. I'd gladly spend the extra money for a 6.6kw if I had the choice again. Not so that I have been in troubles over not having it, but in so many occasions over the last 16 months it would saved me time. But as once Boat Mad rightly said: First world problems!

Yes I had a lot of words with Barlo in Kilkenny over them actually telling people they don;t need the 6.6 and actively encouraging fast charger usage.

The problem lies in the fact the dealers as usual import the cheapest spec they can get away with and so want the potential customer to drive off in what they have in stock rather than loosing them to another dealer who may have a 6.6 Kw leaf in stock or fear they might order a 6.6 kw and then turn around and say they don't want the car.

But all I said went in one ear and out the other, sales people will be sales people but I doubt if the 6.6 was ordered for all cars that anyone would care.

It just really annoys me because 6.6 Kw charging is so useful. The I3 in 2017 will have an 11 Kw charger I think, most useful indeed especially with the larger Battery, Nissan take note ! and it's standard in the I3 along with the current 7 Kw charger !