Tracker recommendation

TrailerBob

Right, so we will soon have our factory fresh 1974 VW camper back from the secret restoration specialist who's doing the interior. As it's a valuable enough bag of bolts, we want to fit a tracker in case of any attempts at liberating it from our possession. (It's going to be doing a decent bit of travel, not a museum piece by any means)

Any recommendations for a good one? It will be fitted in a very discreet location.

Dord

Someone here posted about one recently (last few months), I'm sure they'll chime in soon. You can buy them on ebay from china. It might also be a good idea to put a kill switch of some sort hidden within the van. I believe they're usually done on the power to the fuel pump.

darragh o meara

Dord wrote: »

It might also be a good idea to put a kill switch of some sort hidden within the van. I believe they're usually done on the power to the fuel pump.

And that's exactly why you need to put it on some other line, although with the age of the van, there won't be too many items a kill switch will work on.

As for the tracker, I've heard of one or two lads using this crowd. www.trackmatic.ie/index.php might be worth a call. I had one in my old Focus RS that was pretty deceby and had remote shut down but it's been a while so I'd have to look it up and see who supplied it as it was in the car when I got it.

Wibbs

The ebay Chinese specials are pretty much all rubbish and should be avoided like the very plague. I've tried a couple in my time. Useless.

Even the properly bolted together and installed trackers are becoming ever more irrelevant when you can easily buy from many sources a yoke that plugs into the car's ciggie lighter socket and blocks the signal. For under a 100 quid. Yes a well fitted tracker will help with the dopier scum and joyriders(and some insurance companies insist on them with some car models), but well clued in scum know about the jammers. An unusual car like yours is more likely to attract the specialist I reckon. If you do invest in a proper tracking system ask if it also has GSM and VHF tracking capabilities because of the above. No point paying annual fees well north of a hundred quid, when an easily available device renders the security useless for well south of a hundred quid.

The first line of defence is to stop the scum taking your Camper in the first place. Trackers are a safety net. As Dord said kill switches are a good idea. A cheap and cheerful and quite effective anti scum layer. You can get inventive too. I knew a lad who reasoned that most car thefts seem to happen at night so he had a kill switch on his car's lights. Figuring that this would get attention from the cops and the scum would have to stay to well lit areas(and he lived two fields across from the middle of nowhere). However they're only a layer. I'd not rely on one solely. Get a secondary alarm. Again you tend to get what you pay for and again avoid the cheap Chinese ebay tat.

Ideally look for a UK Thatcham approved alarm. These have certain features that make the scum's life difficult. They "kill" more than one circuit for a start. Two and sometimes three separate systems. So that might be fuel, ignition, starter motor. Names to look at might be any of the DEI group alarm brands like Viper, Clifford. The British made Toad alarms are also very good. A couple of the Cobra alarms are also Thatcham rated.

Sensors: They all come with shock sensors, but IMH and your milage may vary, I find them useless, fit for the bin. Either so sensitive they'll drive you mad with false alarms or so insensitive a herd of rutting wildebeest could run over your roof and the alarm wouldn't go off. Ultrasonics are good, but read the alarm small print to find if they can be adjusted for sensitivity. Glass break and tilt sensors are good and almost never false. Proximity sensors are great, but take a lot of setup and vary depending on temperature and pressure(more sensitive at night for example). I'd not bother.

Avoid remote start and all that nonsense. Gimmick and potentially dangerous. Popular in the US where it's mostly automatics.

Installation: This is the most important thing. I'd rather some cheap Chinese tat that cost 20 quid installed well, than a 1000 quid Clifford installed badly. The latter may as well not be in the car for all the good it'll do. By installed well I mean soldered connections, hidden in the vehicles wiring harness. Alarm brain not in the 99% of the time usual place of under the dash six inches from the steering column and starter wires(with the kill wired obviously to them with the alarm fuse front and centre). A setup like that actually makes it easier for the scum. No really. It's easier to hotwire. Put the alarm brain as far away from that location as possible. Ideally behind a panel that requires screws and bolts removing. Under the carpet under the seat another good spot. Even if they know where it is it's a curse to get to it. Hide the siren too. Again not in the 99% of the time usual place of under the bonnet stuck to the bulkhead with a self tapper. Behind a wing or other body panel will be just as loud but harder to tamper with. If you can't secure your bonnet beyond the factory catch then a backup battery for the alarm system is a good plan. So even if they pull the power at your car battery the alarm still alarms. *EDIT* a popular device from days of old was a bonnet lock, hood lock to our US chums. These were an armoured cable key operated setup accessed from inside the cabin. They sometimes still come up on ebay. They came in two lengths for cars and vans. The car ones are almost impossible to find, but the van ones come up often enough, which would suit your purposes. One US maker of them was a crowd called Wolo. They might be worth an email, to see if they have any of the van ones left in the back somewhere. They also have a "kill" on them too, normally directly wired to the starter motor. Old style, but pretty damned effective and you can be sure the scum won't have come across one before.

Then there are the physical deterrents. Driveway posts, wheel clamps and steering wheel locks. The first two are great, but not exactly too convenient or portable. The bar style steering wheel locks are useless. Again they actually help the scum to break the built in steering lock by using them as a lever. The ones that cover the entire steering wheel are the only game in town really. See if your car can be fitted with deadbolts. A fair few of the classics can(because locks back in the day were pretty crap and with age get crapper) and I'd be surprised if the VW couldn't. That'll slow down the scum too.

My 3 cents anyway FWIW, gleaned from years of personal research, practice and paranoia

The Sidewards Man

A immobiliser and alarm would be a better option than a tracker imo. Hinder it in being stolen rather than depending on a tracking device that can be removed.

The Sidewards Man

No, very basic.

Wibbs

Yep. Fuel, ignition, starter motor(main relay if it had one). An alarm controlled kill on two of them, better yet all three and the car is immobilised and if properly installed not easy at all to bypass in a hurry. Indeed, the way recent events have gone with modern Canbus immobiliser systems a 74 VW would in many ways be easier to make harder to steal. It's more personalised/customised for a start. If scum figure out how to steal one model of car with the modern factory set up, it's repeatable and they can steal every single one of them.

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Hinder it in being stolen rather than depending on a tracking device that can be removed.

+1000 tSM and as I noted above in my longwinded post, they don't even need to be removed anymore.

Wibbs

Further to this below.

Wibbs wrote: »

a popular device from days of old was a bonnet lock, hood lock to our US chums. These were an armoured cable key operated setup accessed from inside the cabin. They sometimes still come up on ebay. They came in two lengths for cars and vans. The car ones are almost impossible to find, but the van ones come up often enough, which would suit your purposes. One US maker of them was a crowd called Wolo. They might be worth an email, to see if they have any of the van ones left in the back somewhere. They also have a "kill" on them too, normally directly wired to the starter motor. Old style, but pretty damned effective and you can be sure the scum won't have come across one before.

I had an oul Googlerummage for old time's sake and found that they are still available from a different manufacturer. Here's a link on Amazon for the five footer which I reckon would be the closest fit for your V Dub. Like I say, old style, requires a bit of fiddling about with hammers and spanners, but effective and rarely seen. And given you're a classic car nut and a V Dub one to boot, you'll be grand with getting your hands dirty.

And here's a Thatcham approved Toad alarm from a UK Toad dealer. They also have all the extra sensors you might want too. Here's a Cobra that takes out three circuits. Pay a good car electrician to fit either of them and bob's your mother's brother.

TrailerBob

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

A immobiliser and alarm would be a better option than a tracker imo. Hinder it in being stolen rather than depending on a tracking device that can be removed.

Wibbs - giant response

Thanks for the detailed replies fellas.

It is more about security when its out and about. When its at home, it's in a locked garage behind two sets of locked gates in a very rural area so its safe enough. I was thinking tracker as these old buses are VERY easy to steal, but I see what you're saying about a kill switch/alarm set up. I was put off alarms by bad experiences with cheap ones in the late 90's, but those in the link look quite good.

Much head scratching to be done, and a few coats of looking.

Wibbs

TrailerBob wrote: »

I was put off alarms by bad experiences with cheap ones.

That's most folks experience I reckon TB. Then the built in key immobilisers came along as standard and third party alarms were largely forgotten about. Unless you have a pre 2000 car(or you want to keep your new BMW…). And more often than not the bad experiences were again down to the install. There were more cowboys than a John Wayne flic in that game back then.

ianobrien

What I've done in the past is to find old o/e wiring and connectors and run two wires to under the steering column from both sides of the coil. When the wiring is connected, the coil is bypassed and won't start, disconnecting them is needed to start. It gets sneeky when you run the new wiring into the original loom and have the connectors in the same place as the other connectors under the steering wheel. When leaving the car, just join the two wires and they'll have some fun to find the right wire to break to start.

I know it won't stop somebody who really wants it, but it should slow them down a tad.

Silvera

I purchased a tracker from this UK company. They offer two versions - the 'professional' tracker is better imho because the battery holds it's charge for c.2months -

http://www.itrack-uk.co.uk/

cormie

Silvera wrote: »

I purchased a tracker from this UK company. They offer two versions - the 'professional' tracker is better imho because the battery holds it's charge for c.2months -

http://www.itrack-uk.co.uk/

How does that work? Do you need to top up the o2 sim card and how do you top it up if so as it's a UK sim? Have you tried the sim in any other devices such as a phone? Is it using GSM or 3g data I wonder?

TrailerBob

Silvera wrote: »

I purchased a tracker from this UK company. They offer two versions - the 'professional' tracker is better imho because the battery holds it's charge for c.2months -

http://www.itrack-uk.co.uk/

I like the look of that actually. It seems to accept any sim, so you could buy a pay as you go sim here with a data bundle and it would cost very little per year. The pro model promises a lot.

How has yours been?

Silvera

I purchased and fitted a Vodafone Sim...and just top it up as required (The unit can be set up to reply to a text giving you the sim balance ...or you could pop the sim into a phone temporarily to confirm the balance)

I bought the unit late last year. I have found it to be a good little unit...physically it's very sturdy and comes with a large magnetic base (plus optional screw fixing points). It also comes with a re-sealable heavy plastic cover to keep any moisture out.

A downside is that the instructions for setting it up are a little 'fiddly'. I suspect that english is not the first language of whoever wrote/edited the manual. To date I have it set up that when I ring from my phone it sends me a text with GPS co-ordinates, plus a google map link.

There are lots of other options with the unit which I will set up at some stage, like 'geo-fencing', power/fuel cut off, etc etc

It uses GSM/GPRS/GPS and can be hard-wired into the car's power supply (cabling comes with the unit). Battery life before recharging is c.2 months.

rolion

Hi,

Im using this one here AND this one here as well.
The Visirun is well hidden inside and 24/7, while the trackimo device is more portable !

Enjoy it..

cormie

Not mad on the idea of having to text for updates or top up sim cards either, would prefer a more hands off solution.

I was thinking before get an android phone, stick a data sim in it and it could be tracked if it was constantly left on with gps/wifi enabled via google.com/maps/timeline, then being an android phone, it would be capable of a lot more too, including taking photographs/video/remote operation and even communication with the driver (this was my thinking for operation with my business).

Given the software and hardware is all there, I don't really like the idea of paying a monthly fee when I can just pay data costs, but then again, finding a mobile provider who will offer a decent data bundle on bill pay for a reasonable price is then the trick.

Wibbs

Trackers are grand and seem to be the go to security blanket, but they are by definition a backup plan after your car has already been stolen. IMHO they're akin to having a medical trauma team on call in case you get shot in a war zone. Welcome certainly, but if you get shot the damage has already been done. A bulletproof vest is by far the better bet.

I reckon trackers have become so popular in the public mind because over the last decade or so cars have come with factory built in alarms and immobilisers so the average bod and bodess on the street is largely unworried about easy theft in the first place and when thefts occur it's because the keys are stolen in burglaries*.

The thing is the OP's car is not a modern car fitted with a key based immobiliser. As they point out their VW are very easy to steal, so they have a very different "threat environment" as it were and we can't compare it to a 2016 Audi with a built in security system. Plus if you have a car that is likely to be targeted by more specialised thieves the tracker will be next to useless. They can and are being jammed very easily and cheaply.

The Sidewards Man earlier summed it up for me; "Hinder it in being stolen rather than depending on a tracking device that can be removed". Sure have a tracker as the last option if the initial security layers get bypassed, or your keys are stolen, but to only rely on a tracker for security on an older car is not a good bet. It provides none. It is not a security device, it is a recovery one(if it works as advertised).



*However this is changing and quickly, so I suspect extra layers of security will start to filter back into the public mind.

Wibbs

Actually a good and interesting for me example of how our collective mindset on security has shifted over the last decade plus because of manufacturer security advances can be seen in this thread.

darragh o meara wrote: »

although with the age of the van, there won't be too many items a kill switch will work on.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Wouldn't an immobiliser on a 74 VW be quite difficult to do?

An early 70's VW in many ways is easier, less complex and safer to third party immobilise than a brand new 2106 VW Golf. EG put a starter motor "kill" on the latter and see how long that component lasts. The OP is naturally wary of car alarms because the last experience of them was in the 90's, when it was likely a cheap example and almost certainly fitted arseways in a lunch hour. The tech has come along in leaps and bounds since then, including Canbus compatible setups for brand new cars.

Now bear in mind these are three are car dudes, actual clued in full on petrolheads, hell the LIGHTNING lad has Castrol R flowing through his veins instead of blood. So you can imagine how much the general public are completely in the dark. The thieves aren't though. They're extremely clued in as there is real easy money to be made. Look at the recent video from here in Ireland where the comfort start thingie on a current BMW is hijacked and the woman's car is stolen in minutes. Or the long standing issue with the same company's cars(and others) where keys can be cloned in seconds. That was going on for over a year before the media reported it and a further year before the manufacturers kinda admitted it. Put it another way; if a professional car thief was reading this thread I'd bet the farm he'd more likely agree with me and The Sidewards Man's angle on car security.

TrailerBob

Interesting thoughts. Completely see what you say about closing the door after the horse has bolted. Will do some looking into alarms and see where we end up

RandomAccess

There used to be a cap you could get that you lock into the exhaust pipe. When its in place the car just won't start.
These days I would say nobody would think to check there!
They would be looking for an electronic immobiliser or something else to do with the ignition system.

Wibbs

Oh that's a good one. I'm sure the more handy could ready something up like that. Even if it wasn't lockable, so long as it wasn't obvious, as you say, who would think of looking? I knew a neighbour many years ago who had some oddball third party yoke that locked his gearbox/selectors with a dirty great padlock. Another one was a cousin of mine who was into the old engineering and metalwork and he had customised his gearstick in such a way that he could stick it in neutral and unscrew it when he was leaving his car. Car in neutral, no gearstick. Physical barriers are a very good layer. Real timesinks for thieves.

Dord

My parents have used a good oul massive chain and lock on their cars for years. Seems to have done the job. Had a few attempts but without success. It's a very visual deterrant.

ianobrien

OP, its simple. When parking, pop off the distributor cap, remove the rotor arm (placing jt in your pocket) and refit the distributor cap. Now, they'll be unable to start it and a truck would be needed to move it (unless they bring the correct rotor arm along).

Again it will slow them down and the home made cures may be better as they will know how to defeat Alarm model 1234x