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Key resellers & grey markets

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭EoinHef


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Would insurance not cover these indie developers for fraudulent sales?

    Or the banks insurance?

    Or is this type of insurance cost prohibitive for indie developers.

    In the example i used,i would have thought any retailer would be insured for fraud. If you sell anything directly via your own store i would have thought it essential.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,329 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    There is insurance but it probably is prohibitively expensive.

    There's also the big issue that CC companies make it very difficult to claim that the chargeback was fraudulent. Their customers are the credit card owners and they protect them more than merchants.

    Also there's a very real threat that the CC company could just not allow you to trade if you receive too many chargebacks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭EoinHef


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    There is insurance but it probably is prohibitively expensive.

    There's also the big issue that CC companies make it very difficult to claim that the chargeback was fraudulent. Their customers are the credit card owners and they protect them more than merchants.

    Also there's a very real threat that the CC company could just not allow you to trade if you receive too many chargebacks.

    Sounds like a nightmare for a small business in any industry.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jim Sterling did a video on this recently



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭snowstreams


    I have only bought keys for xbox live or nintendo shops before. But I won't be doing it again after reading this thread!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I never buy from marketplaces like G2A or ebay, I usually buy from instant-gaming which are resellers themselves, and not a marketplace. Still grey market though, but I don't have any problem with that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭sniper_samurai


    Cordell wrote: »
    I never buy from marketplaces like G2A or ebay or cdkeys, I usually buy from instant-gaming which are resellers themselves, and not a marketplace. Still grey market though, but I don't have any problem with that.

    Cdkeys is a reseller, not a marketplace that turns a blind eye to credit card fraud and stolen keys.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Yes, you are right, I always thought they are a marketplace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    Gamebillet are one I use. They look like the kinda fishy reseller site but they're actually whitelisted by Bethesda and other publishers. They often have stock issues but I've bought once or twice from there. I check there first before going to key resellers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    I mean I get nearly all my games digitally for full price directly from services like PSN, xbox live or steam but I amn't going to admonish anyone for using a grey site and paying half the price.

    Publishers might lose some money because of sites like G2A but any industry that not only defends but actively encourages crunch culture, predatory layoffs and juvenile gambling......can go take a run and jump when they try take the moral high ground.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,707 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    Kirby wrote: »
    I mean I get nearly all my games digitally for full price directly from services like PSN, xbox live or steam but I amn't going to admonish anyone for using a grey site and paying half the price.

    Publishers might lose some money because of sites like G2A but any industry that not only defends but actively encourages crunch culture, predatory layoffs and juvenile gambling......can go take a run and jump when they try take the moral high ground.

    This affects small indie studios (sub-50 people) the most.
    Get informed or hold your tongue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    I would not buy any cheap keys from dubious websites,
    its close to piracy.theres plenty of games on steam, they have sales frequently.
    using crunch as an excuse makes no sense to me.
    Not all studios make their employee,s work long hours .
    2 wrongs do not make a right.
    its like saying all music companys are bad,so i,ll just download all my music from torrent websites.
    and there,s plenty of free game s on the epic store if you are on a budget.
    yes resellers are worse than piracy cos small devs have to provide support for customers who bought their game from grey markets ,
    they get no revenue from grey key resellers .
    i do,nt think small devs can get insurance for fraud,
    its not like getting car insurance.
    If you want high quality games released on pc and want to support smaller devs, you should only buy keys from stores like steam ,epic etc
    maybe things might get better in the game industry , At least the issue,s with crunch are being talked about and reported on gaming websites


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    riclad wrote: »
    its like saying all music companys are bad
    They kinda are, though :D
    riclad wrote: »
    If you want high quality games released on pc and want to support smaller devs, you should only buy keys from stores like steam ,epic etc
    Yep. Support releases that cater to your tastes and values.
    riclad wrote: »
    At least the issue,s with crunch are being talked about and reported on gaming websites
    They're only being written about because the authors get to shill their union yap since it's in their own interest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    This affects small indie studios (sub-50 people) the most.
    Get informed or hold your tongue.

    You are neither a moral authority nor a mod so hold my tongue? How about no. What an incredibly pompous thing to say.

    Take your head out of your arse and recognise that not everyone shares your world view and that shock horror, a discussion forum is going to contain these people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Small studios don,t have the staff to deal with refunds of stolen keys ,
    or help customers who bought a game with a stolen key,
    they need to concentrate on making games ,
    some of the best new games come from independent studios,
    who do not just churn out new cod or assasins creed game ,s .
    EA can afford do deal with this issue ,they have 1000,s of staff.
    PUBG started off being made by a small studio before it turned into
    the next big gaming trend,
    battle royale .
    the next big gaming genre could be invented by a small studio .
    some phone companys hardly pay any tax,
    i,m not gonna go into my local phone shop and rob phones to get revenge .
    Just because you buy a stolen item online does not make it morally right .


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