Vacating tenancy

justback83

Hi all,

I am being moved overseas for work and myself and my partner must vacate our house, which we are renting. The other tenant is staying and we have found new tenants to take over our lease. I've just been advised that there will be a €200 charge for this....I find this outrageous! We've given them 6 weeks notice and have found replacement tenants, with all the necessary paperwork. Nowhere on our lease does it mention this charge either!

whomitconcerns

Who has told you there's a charge and what is the charge for?

justback83

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Who has told you there's a charge and what is the charge for?

The estate agents. The charge is for approving the new tenant(s) and issuing a new lease...

Michael D Not Higgins

justback83 wrote: »

The estate agents. The charge is for approving the new tenant(s) and issuing a new lease...

There is nothing preventing an administration charge for an assignment of a tenancy and it's likely above board. However, I would query it with them if this was not made clear when the assignment was first requested and that there was nothing in writing in the lease about it.

hdowney

If it's not in your lease and this is the first time they've mentioned it then I'd tell them to take a hike! Greedy chancers

justback83

hdowney wrote: »

If it's not in your lease and this is the first time they've mentioned it then I'd tell them to take a hike! Greedy chancers

I agree - greedy! But they also have our hefty deposit....! I just don't understand the outrageous cost! We are finding the tenants and providing them with all necessary documents. They literally need to change the name on the lease!!!!

Michael D Not Higgins

By assigning the tenancy to a new tenant, a new tenancy is created, thus requiring a registration of that new tenancy with the RTB. This incurs a registration fee of €70. The rest of the €130 could easily be taken up by the costs involved in the paperwork and due diligence involved in transferring the tenancy.

If you have an issue with the charge, you should speak to the agent and query it with them. Don't expect to pay nothing but you could argue them down to €100 maybe.

justback83

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

By assigning the tenancy to a new tenant, a new tenancy is created, thus requiring a registration of that new tenancy with the RTB. This incurs a registration fee of €70. The rest of the €130 could easily be taken up by the costs involved in the paperwork and due diligence involved in transferring the tenancy.

If you have an issue with the charge, you should speak to the agent and query it with them. Don't expect to pay nothing but you could argue them down to €100 maybe.

OK - this would be fair enough. I asked them to break down the charge for me but they didn't. Does the €130 fee seem high to you?!

Baby01032012

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

By assigning the tenancy to a new tenant, a new tenancy is created, thus requiring a registration of that new tenancy with the RTB. This incurs a registration fee of €70. The rest of the €130 could easily be taken up by the costs involved in the paperwork and due diligence involved in transferring the tenancy.

If you have an issue with the charge, you should speak to the agent and query it with them. Don't expect to pay nothing but you could argue them down to €100 maybe.

You're assigning the reminder of the tenancy not creating a new one in my view which could be wrong.

Change of name with prtb is free, a new lease registration would be 90 euro.

If €200 was not stated in lease or agents terms and conditions there's a strong arguement for not paying. Agent is trying to generate income anyway they can with no benefit to the landlord.

justback83

Baby01032012 wrote: »

You're assigning the reminder of the tenancy not creating a new one in my view which could be wrong.

Change of name with prtb is free, a new lease registration would be 90 euro.

If €200 was not stated in lease or agents terms and conditions there's a strong arguement for not paying. Agent is trying to generate income anyway they can with no benefit to the landlord.

So there is actually no fee with PRTB in this instance?

justback83

themucaro wrote: »

I forgot to update how this turned out, after emails back and forth, I emailed them the quoted pieces from the legislation that showed they must pay this fee and they gave in. Mad though, you'd think they'd know this, I get the feeling they were chancing their arm anyway to be honest

Going through exactly the same situation myself. Letting agency are trying to charge us €200 for paperwork!! This was not mentioned in the lease...I've queried the charge and apparently it's for "the drawing up of new contracts as they will be produced in the middle of a tenancy for a new tenant".

MarkAnthony

It's not wholly unreasonable if you're changing things halfway through. Would you care to elaborate on the situation?

justback83

MarkAnthony wrote: »

It's not wholly unreasonable if you're changing things halfway through. Would you care to elaborate on the situation?

My partner and I rent a house with a friend. I am being relocated (overseas) for work so we are leaving the property. We asked our estate agent to request permission from the landlord to find replacement tenants for myself and my partner while our friend remains in the property. This request was approved by the landlord on the condition that we continue to pay the rent until new tenants have been found - fair enough.

Now the estate agents are requesting a €200 fee for drawing up new paperwork. The literally have to change the names of two tenants on the lease!!! I've done my research and there is no charge for updating a lease with the PRTB so I'm thinking they are just trying to rip us off!

MarkAnthony

The charge is perhaps a little steep but there would be a charge in these circumstances. I think you have another thread going, I'd echo the sentiments there - negotiate. If that fails register a complaint through the PRTB.

To be fair the letting agent have to vet the tenant etc. which incurs a cost.

justback83

MarkAnthony wrote: »

The charge is perhaps a little steep but there would be a charge in these circumstances. I think you have another thread going, I'd echo the sentiments there - negotiate. If that fails register a complaint through the PRTB.

To be fair the letting agent have to vet the tenant etc. which incurs a cost.

I have discussed this on another thread - apologies about that. How much does it cost to vet a tenant?! And why wasn't this type of charge mentioned on the lease?!

Aye Bosun

I would not be paying the €70, it is the landlords responsibility pay this fee. Think of it this way, if the a tenancy is not registered with the PRTB the tenant can still avail of their services and landlord is on the hook for a fine. It not the tenants responsibility to pay this charge.

justback83

Aye Bosun wrote: »

I would not be paying the €70, it is the landlords responsibility pay this fee. Think of it this way, if the a tenancy is not registered with the PRTB the tenant can still avail of their services and landlord is on the hook for a fine. It not the tenants responsibility to pay this charge.

The fee does not appear to be associated with the PRTB - the agency is simply requesting €200 for paperwork and for vetting the new tenants.

MarkAnthony

justback83 wrote: »

I have discussed this on another thread - apologies about that. How much does it cost to vet a tenant?! And why wasn't this type of charge mentioned on the lease?!

Because you've assigned the lease. It's not something that is part of the lease it's an additional expense you've created, like for example, if you had broken something in the property.

As for the costs involved - I'm not saying I agree with €200 but a typical charge for letting an apartment can be expensive, I don't use an agent so I'm not exactly sure but IIRC it was first month's rent or something like that.

You're looking at time going over and editing the lease, vetting the tenant, getting them in to sign etc. It's not unreasonable that this would take 1 - 2 hours of a professional's time. €50 - €75 per hour seems reasonable to me.

Your recourse is through the PRTB to dispute the fee.

justback83

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Because you've assigned the lease. It's not something that is part of the lease it's an additional expense you've created, like for example, if you had broken something in the property.

As for the costs involved - I'm not saying I agree with €200 but a typical charge for letting an apartment can be expensive, I don't use an agent so I'm not exactly sure but IIRC it was first month's rent or something like that.

You're looking at time going over and editing the lease, vetting the tenant, getting them in to sign etc. It's not unreasonable that this would take 1 - 2 hours of a professional's time. €50 - €75 per hour seems reasonable to me.

Your recourse is through the PRTB to dispute the fee.

€50 - €75 per hour?!! So you're suggesting that "professional" agents earn €104,000 - €156,000 per annum?!! I'm definitely in the wrong game...

MarkAnthony

justback83 wrote: »

€50 - €75 per hour?!! So you're suggesting that "professional" agents earn €104,000 - €156,000 per annum?!! I'm definitely in the wrong game...

Let's say 150K per annum per agent working in a letting agency with maybe 4 agents giving you €600K per year pre tax. Remove the overheads/tax you're probably looking at salaries from about 35K - 80K gross in the office depending on role, you may or may not have a member of support staff who is not directly generating revenue, simply facilitating the others.

A professional agent would usually have a degree and professional qualifications.

Perhaps you are in the wrong game but that's the realities of wage bills in Ireland, plus a healthy profit of course; what did you expect? An agency to work as a charity?

justback83

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Let's say 150K per annum per agent working in a letting agency with maybe 4 agents giving you €600K per year pre tax. Remove the overheads/tax you're probably looking at salaries from about 35K - 80K gross in the office depending on role, you may or may not have a member of support staff who is not directly generating revenue, simply facilitating the others.

A professional agent would usually have a degree and professional qualifications.

Perhaps you are in the wrong game but that's the realities of wage bills in Ireland, plus a healthy profit of course; what did you expect? An agency to work as a charity?

No - they make a healthy profit from Landlords, not tenants!

Michael D Not Higgins

justback83 wrote: »

So there is actually no fee with PRTB in this instance?

I wouldn't be so sure. An update has no fee but if you have a separate tenancy agreement to your housemate, then your tenancy is separate and terminated when you assign the lease and a new tenancy is started with the new tenant.

Nonetheless, my example was to show that there can be costs with what you proposed and an administration fee can be applied as there is nothing preventing it. Have you talked to the agent about a more reasonable fee?

MarkAnthony

justback83 wrote: »

No - they make a healthy profit from Landlords, not tenants!

Eh? The profit, tax, charges for the PRTB, it's all paid for by the tenant that's what you're paying rent for. A LL might, just might not be breaking even on a mortgage but they have an asset at the end of it.

I posted here to assist you, clearly something isn't sinking in. I've advised you were the charge is coming from, it's perfectly reasonable that there's a charge for assigning a lease. I've advised you where to dispute the charge.

Michael D Not Higgins

Mod: Posts merged. justback83, keep your query to the one thread and don't drag up 6 year old threads.