Is rural broadband a real issue?

The Sidewards Man

All this jazz about rural broadband and no one seems to be complaining of lack of phone coverage. How much speed do ye want, gone of the days of a 5 speed box its 6 speed now and 7 if it were available.
Can this be explained, is it for porn or major Facebook/twitter machine updates it is needed?

maudgonner

It's not just homes. It's businesses too.

I work in an office in a reasonably rural location, but there are a number of other businesses around, one big one. We've been promised fibre since September and we're still waiting for it.

I had to download a file a couple of weeks ago - it was going to take 6.5 hours. I sent one of the lads into his flat in the city, 45 mins away and got him to download the file and bring it out to me on a flash drive. It took him 6 minutes to download it.

It's fúcking ridiculous.

The Sidewards Man

Why dont you move your business to the city, leave the country side for milking cows?

maudgonner

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Why dont you move your business to the city, leave the country side for milking cows?

It's not my business. The company own the building, so they're unlikely to up sticks. And we're a mile away from our biggest client.

And the countryside doesn't have to just be for cows. If we all move to the cities you'll be moaning about traffic or house prices or something else.

Pagliuca

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Why dont you move your business to the city, leave the country side for milking cows?

What an incredibly ignorant comment.

The country doesn't revolve around Dublin.

The Sidewards Man

maudgonner wrote: »

It's not my business. The company own the building, so they're unlikely to up sticks. And we're a mile away from our biggest client.

If ye are only a mile from yer biggest clients why not buy walkie talkies?

Mycroft H

The folks at home have been stuck on ADSL 1mb for the last 5 years. As websites become ever heavier, it's only become worse. This isn't up the side of a mountain, it's rural Kildare! I could drive for an hour and be hitting the quays in Dublin.

We've been promised FTTH recently but I'll only believe it when I see it.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Keep insulting the country folk, it'll be a week before they can load this page.

The Sidewards Man

Pagliuca wrote: »

What an incredibly ignorant comment.

The country doesn't revolve around Dublin.

Not from Dublin, what an incredibly ignorant post.

benjamin d

Pagliuca wrote: »

What an incredibly ignorant comment.

The country doesn't revolve around Dublin.

Who said it was Dublin?

#mindfúck

maudgonner

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

If ye are only a mile from yer biggest clients why not buy walkie talkies?

No, we've invested in a couple of tin cans and a long piece of string, it's fine.

Water John

Not sure the OP is interested in a rational conversation on this.

It is a serious issue. It is now a key access point for business.

Atlantic Dawn

It's not sustainable to wire every shack in the country to the good internet.

Water John

Atlantic, I suspect if we were now working on rural electrification there would be many saying it is not cost effective. Don't bother doing it.
We seem to have a strange attitude nowadays.

The Sidewards Man

Water John wrote: »

Not sure the OP is interested in a rational conversation on this.

It is a serious issue. It is now a key access point for business.

Are you of the thinking that I am extracting the urine Sir water john?

benjamin d

Water John wrote: »

Atlantic, I suspect if we were now working on rural electrification there would be many saying it is not cost effective. Don't bother doing it.
We seem to have a strange attitude nowadays.

Obviously existing buildings need to have internet connections but planning regulations in rural areas should be massively tightened to stop the need to extend every service beyond the arse end of nowhere for the sake of an individual house in future.

Water John

Rural planning is quite tight at this point.
You will need to have a very specific housing need in that area to now get planning.

For years they were telling rural people they could not have multi channel TV until the deflector guys, operating outside the law showed it could be done.
That looks silly today.

Gonzo

in this day and age to say that people in rural Ireland don't need good internet is like saying people in general don't need electricity except for maybe emergency situations.

it's getting to the stage now where if you want to look for a job, book a flight, pay a bill, banking exchange, play a game, connect with someone beyond the next room, submit your college assignment, work report, book concert tickets, read a review, research anything that you have to have a working internet connection faster than 3/4 megs to do anything.

yet 1/3 of this country do not have a usable internet connection and are expected to perform all the above tasks. Absolute shame.

I also forgot about those with families:
what about children trying to access information for their school work
expectations from school/colleges/teachers/lecturers that every pupil/student has fiber broadband when in reality that some still are on dial up and cant even connect or have to monitor every kb of data transmitted as they are connected to a satellite provider with tiny download allowance.
what about those who have signed up to certain companies like Bord Gais who only like customers to pay their bills online....

Speedwell

I lost a job with Google because I could not muster their minimum required upload/download speeds. They wanted me so badly they actually proposed I move house. Without a cash flow I was obviously not in a position to do that.

Two months afterward, I ran out of money (as a comparatively recent immigrant I didn't qualify for benefits; I'd been living on savings and redundancy from a US job) and got picked up by a friend with a small IT firm in another country who needed an Irish presence. Just as we were talking about it, my village FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY got fibre. It made the difference between him being able to hire me as work-from-home staff and not being able to hire me as someone who would need to rent office space.

bodhrandude

Well I never had a problem with the 3G Dongle in the outback of Leitrim.

LightsStillOn

bodhrandude wrote: »

Well I never had a problem with the 3G Dongle in the outback of Leitrim.

That's because you're the only person in Leitrim who knows how to work the Internet

gctest50

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's not sustainable to wire every shack in the country to the good internet.

'tis

http://b4rn.org.uk/

B4RN is a professionally designed fibre optic broadband network, registered as a non-profit community benefit society, and run by a dedicated local team with the support of landowners and volunteers. We offer 1,000Mbps FTTH broadband to every property in our coverage area within North West England, costing households only £30 per month.

( within reason of course )

omahaid

You'd be tired of the culchies demanding stuff

"I want fibre to the door"
"Why doesn't this parish have a hospital?"
"We should have a special drivers licence for drink driving"
"I built my house on a flood plain, where are my flood defenses?"
"Wheres my motorway to the mart?"

If you live in the arse end of no where in a muck mansion then tough.

Speedwell

Yeah, how dare the culchies not stay in their place and be picturesque for the tourists.

smash

Gonzo wrote: »

yet 1/3 of this country do not have a usable internet connection and are expected to perform all the above tasks. Absolute shame.

Back up there gonzo... You can get 4G across most of the country now. A 4G dongle is perfectly capable of providing a very good internet connection. It might not be UPC 300mb but you can even stream Netflix HD on 4G

SEPT 23 1989

Thr countryside is a place to switch off and get away from the Internet

galljga1

omahaid wrote: »

You'd be tired of the culchies demanding stuff

"I want fibre to the door"
"Why doesn't this parish have a hospital?"
"We should have a special drivers licence for drink driving"
"I built my house on a flood plain, where are my flood defenses?"
"Wheres my motorway to the mart?"

If you live in the arse end of no where in a muck mansion then tough.

Ah but I like having 3000 sq ft to roam around along with three quarters of an acre for the dog.
I have only 4 mb broadband but will have FTTH before year end with a bit of luck.
25 mins from nearest hospital.
1 mile from nearest pub/hotel. 5 euro in local cab.
House on a height, if we flood, towns and cities will probably be gone before us.
3 mins from motorway.

My only problem is Dublin traffic but I am also 5 mins from train.

Nailz

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Thr countryside is a place to switch off and get away from the Internet

You say that as if it's only people from towns go to the country as a getaway. Folks live there on a full time basis, and there are businesses there too that require broadband to survive.


Bringing working fibre broadband to the country and countrysides is also important for the decentralisation of the country (and it certainly needs that).

Let's take Dublin for example; many large multinational companies setup there because it has an infrastructure that can cater for their needs as an organisation. In modern times, the most important component of that is high-speed internet: the ability to interact with international clients remotely, run VM's for software development, work as a virtual team without being hindered, and obviously just the general handling of large amounts of valuable data.

If rural areas began to tick that box, along with meeting the other criteria for such organisations, then not only would that be of benefit to the area itself, but it will also help the likes of Dublin in decentralising it's population. And all those things that Dubs moan about on a daily basis, such as the "housing crisis" (the big one), traffic, and stress on public transport would be given the ultra-fuck off; alleviated through lowering its population and giving people a choice where to live. As opposed to forcing people to move to a city because that's the only place where they can get a job.

stimpson

gctest50 wrote: »

'tis




( within reason of course )

Lancashire has a population density of 475/sqkm. The entire republic (including cities) has a density of 75/sqkm.

MRnotlob606

The countryside is where you go to die

The Sidewards Man

It's a massive issue thousands and thousands of homes and businesses. In my home place it's either dial up or a 3G dongle which are not very fast and have very low usage caps.

It's simply unacceptable that proper broadband has not been supplied to all of rural Ireland. It's the perfect place to roll out the fibre network also as it's a blank canvas compared to a congested city.

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Why dont you move your business to the city, leave the country side for milking cows?

Business and factories etc should be moving to the countryside not the other way around also new businesses should be heavily incentivised to set up in rural locations. It's far better for people working there to have no traffic, cheaper housing and just a more relaxing scenario. Also peope can stay living where they are from and not be forced to move to cities etc.

lawred2

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

All this jazz about rural broadband and no one seems to be complaining of lack of phone coverage. How much speed do ye want, gone of the days of a 5 speed box its 6 speed now and 7 if it were available.
Can this be explained, is it for porn or major Facebook/twitter machine updates it is needed?

Yes. It's a huge deal.

Corkblowin

omahaid wrote: »

You'd be tired of the culchies demanding stuff

"I want fibre to the door"
"Why doesn't this parish have a hospital?"
"We should have a special drivers licence for drink driving"
"I built my house on a flood plain, where are my flood defenses?"
"Wheres my motorway to the mart?"

If you live in the arse end of no where in a muck mansion then tough.

Its not just the rural areas - I live and work part-time in a medium sized west cork town - not only is broadband crap but I often have no mobile signal in my kitchen (esp since 3 takeover) - we can't have people peppering the countryside with one-offs, but by abandoning rural towns you're not giving the incentive to move into areas where services can be provided more efficiently.

Thelomen Toblackai

Eircom is the problem. Fine when they can stick up phone cables and charge extortionate amounts for line rental and sit on their arses. But when it comes to following through on even doing basic upgrades to support better connections in rural areas they just don't bother.

I can't get Eircom broadband because someone else on the same line already has it. They refuse to upgrade the line and actually offered me a dial up package.

There's wireless providers offering better speeds and better priced phone packages than them. Eircom are incompetence personified and should be dismantled for the protection of future technological advancement of the country.

The Randy Riverbeast

Rural broadband? It isn't an issue. There should be more work done to expand fibre to more towns but some people need to understand that you bought a house away from everyone else so you'll be the last to get this kind of thing and by the time you do it will be something else you're after.

ednwireland

3mb 2 miles from a town. Struggle to do IT support work. And eurosport player basically buffers all the time this year since it wa upgraded.
Mind one of the directors in Kent village only has 2mb

The Randy Riverbeast

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

and by the time you do it will be something else you're after.

It's the opposite actually, rural areas are going to have far superior broadband when they eventually get it as they will have fibre to the home or very close to it and have speeds well in excess of what is available now in cities. As I said earlier it's a blank canvas and rural areas will get close to state of the art when they get it, it also will be easy to upgrade as once the fibre is in you only need to upgrade at the providers end and the users end everything in the middle will be good for generations. It's very difficult to upgrade urban areas due to the amount of work involved so they will be over taken. The problem is the time it's taking to roll out these service to rural areas.

Also why shouldn't a house in the middle of nowhere be entitled to the same broadband service as a town. Pure nonsense you hear from townies.

RobertKK

I live in the rural north Kilkenny hills.
7 miles from Kilkenny city.

I have to use a dongle for my broadband, I get 4G, and the speed varies from 15mb/s to 27mb/s.

Big difference to the days of taking near 40 minutes to download a 8mb file on dial up.

newacc2015

maudgonner wrote: »

It's not my business. The company own the building, so they're unlikely to up sticks. And we're a mile away from our biggest client.

And the countryside doesn't have to just be for cows. If we all move to the cities you'll be moaning about traffic or house prices or something else.

So the tax payer should have to pick up the tab for a company choosing to locate in the middle of nowhere? It is possible to put broadband in every home/business, but it is a massive expense to the tax payer that is not needed in most peoples opinion. That money could be better spent on education or upgrading a motorway that will benefit tens of thousands of people.

If you want 3 phase ESB or high speed broadband and you cant get it in parts of Dublin. You are told tough, move to an area with it. If you dont have broadband in the middle of nowhere in Ireland ( I serious doubt Germany or the UK would have broadband in remote areas either). That whole argument is Dublin is attacking rural Ireland or Dublin doesnt care about rural Ireland.

Why should there be a double standard for rural Ireland?

Rural Ireland doesnt have broadband, as they refuse to live in villages. Dubliners aren't expecting rural Ireland to live in mega cities. It would be better if they choose to live in clusters of 20-100 houses to provide services rather than living miles apart from each other. Rural Ireland is still building all over the place like it is the 1800's, but expecting services like its 2016. It is extremely expensive to provide ESB, roads and phone services when people live all over the place

The Sidewards Man

Keep the fibre for the dietary requirements.

RobertKK

Fibre broadband will be delivered to all in time, it is as essential as the rural electrification program was.

Discodog

smash wrote: »

Back up there gonzo... You can get 4G across most of the country now. A 4G dongle is perfectly capable of providing a very good internet connection. It might not be UPC 300mb but you can even stream Netflix HD on 4G

Take a look at the Three forum here. A lot of people are getting slower speeds on 4g that they were on 3g. Three had to abandon plans to charge for it.

Nailz

Discodog wrote: »

Take a look at the Three forum here. A lot of people are getting slower speeds on 4g that they were on 3g. Three had to abandon plans to charge for it.

Not to mention all cellular providers cap the data on their packages to wind up a post-cap premium.

Capt'n Midnight

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's not sustainable to wire every shack in the country to the good internet.

Cost of doing that was about 2 billion.
About the same ballpark as was stripped stripped out of Eircom over the years.
Just over twice what was paid for the M50 toll bridge buyout, and a small fraction of what the NRA have spent overall on 'infrastructure'. It's arguable that providing better comms might have been a better way of reducing the need for extra commuter roads.

Capt'n Midnight

Discodog wrote: »

Take a look at the Three forum here. A lot of people are getting slower speeds on 4g that they were on 3g. Three had to abandon plans to charge for it.

It has exactly the same problem as Fibre to the cab. Great if you are close, otherwise it's not much better than the previous tech.

It also has the time slice problem. If I'm further away and only getting a tenth the speed you are then I'll hog ten times as much time as you to download the same file because the bandwidth is shared.

Shenshen

Alistair Fast Quarterfinal wrote: »

Business and factories etc should be moving to the countryside not the other way around also new businesses should be heavily incentivised to set up in rural locations. It's far better for people working there to have no traffic, cheaper housing and just a more relaxing scenario. Also peope can stay living where they are from and not be forced to move to cities etc.

Won't that just massively increase traffic on a road infrastructure that in many places alreay struggles to cope, not to mention poor to non-existing public transport and other services?
I always figured that the unavailability of decent broadband is just one symptom of a generally under-developped countryside. Tackling one aspect only without also looking at the other problems is not going to solve the problem.

Shenshen

newacc2015 wrote: »

If you want 3 phase ESB or high speed broadband and you cant get it in parts of Dublin. You are told tough, move to an area with it. If you dont have broadband in the middle of nowhere in Ireland ( I serious doubt Germany or the UK would have broadband in remote areas either). That whole argument is Dublin is attacking rural Ireland or Dublin doesnt care about rural Ireland.

Why should there be a double standard for rural Ireland?

Rural Ireland doesnt have broadband, as they refuse to live in villages. Dubliners aren't expecting rural Ireland to live in mega cities. It would be better if they choose to live in clusters of 20-100 houses to provide services rather than living miles apart from each other. Rural Ireland is still building all over the place like it is the 1800's, but expecting services like its 2016. It is extremely expensive to provide ESB, roads and phone services when people live all over the place

Germany has hit on a good solution - if you live more than a certain distsance out from the next village and want any kind of services connected to your house (and I mean any - water, sewage, electricity, phone, broadband, cable TV, etc.) you can have that. But you will have to pay fully to have them brought out to you.
Within the village/town/city, you'll pay a reduced rate for first installations.

Ronald Wilson Reagan

The deregulated free market is great, good to see FG are doing everything to bring such a enlighted ideology to all sectors of Irish life. For far too long the commie unionist controlled semi states provided somewhat decent infrastructure and services.

alta stare

Yes rural broadband is an issue I say this as I wait patiently for the page to load fully......2mb connection. Bloody annoying.

Little CuChulainn

The real issue is that Eir own the national network and only expand into an area when they are ready to service it. Aside from this being uncompetitive practice, it is a travesty that our national communication network belongs to a for profit company.

I always look at this topic with interest.

I have a fair few family members in rural areas. One is stuck with Three's 3G service, another is stuck with 6Mb fixed wireless, and my parents have 2Mb fixed wireless.

As much as I'd love to see them get faster services, I just can't see how it would be viable via a wired connection. VDSL is useless after 2km (and even at that it's 7Mb so hardly ground breaking). My parents' local exchange was never even enabled for ADSL because Eircom said it was unviable. They're even too far out for the FTTH rollout, the OpenEir map shows the fibre terminating about 800m from the house. However they do have a 4G signal from Vodafone so I might be able to do something for them.

No problems for me personally, sitting here in Dublin with a 100Mb VDSL line and previously had 360Mb Virgin Media (when it worked!). :pac: