Lidl in Portmarnock Village

Hollister11

Is there an Aldi opening in Portmarnock village, across from the Off Licence.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4207732,-6.1378175,3a,75y,18.53h,80.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV1QqLs0nYOmAKzuQ8s0cjQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

I knw years ago, they were rejected a outlet in the sands hotel, but it would be great if it opened here.

Any truth in this, i can't find anything online, but my friend was saying it to me.

BowWow

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/portmarnock-lidl-must-shrink-31439920.html

neris

that site only sold recently enough and apparently theres been war in portmarnock over the idea of it being developed on. Cant see an Aldi going in on it. Its a small enough site and traffic through portmarnock can be chaos at the best of times without an aldi adding to the congestion. They had the sands hotel planning rejected alright and there was an application for either an aldi or lidl to go in on a site in baldoyle that was rejected aswell few years ago. There is already a building lying empty nearyby baldoyle and portmarnock that was built for a supermarket before the crash and no word of any one going in there yet.

Hollister11

neris wrote: »

that site only sold recently enough and apparently theres been war in portmarnock over the idea of it being developed on. Cant see an Aldi going in on it. Its a small enough site and traffic through portmarnock can be chaos at the best of times without an aldi adding to the congestion. They had the sands hotel planning rejected alright and there was an application for either an aldi or lidl to go in on a site in baldoyle that was rejected aswell few years ago. There is already a building lying empty nearyby baldoyle and portmarnock that was built for a supermarket before the crash and no word of any one going in there yet.

Where is the site?

Stheno

Hollister11 wrote: »

Where is the site?

Across the road from jus de vine

BowWow

neris wrote: »

There is already a building lying empty nearyby baldoyle and portmarnock that was built for a supermarket before the crash and no word of any one going in there yet.

Where's that?

Atlantic Dawn

BowWow wrote: »

Where's that?

Here I think...
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3984818,-6.1490448,3a,75y,169.22h,78.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp0vTbLzgzDTuQuWhotsCuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Grolschevik

Site bought by Lidl and design at planning stage. Looks like it'll be approved. More info here:

https://m.facebook.com/Save-Portmarnock-Village-834002113357714/

neris

BowWow wrote: »

Where's that?

Clongriffen, Superquinn were meant to go into originally but then they pulled out of going in in 2008 or so.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4029492,-6.1511759,3a,75y,37.69h,73.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skNEDD0U9mL8JeWBYJ1zPmw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

neris

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Here I think...
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3984818,-6.1490448,3a,75y,169.22h,78.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp0vTbLzgzDTuQuWhotsCuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

that was where they wanted to put an aldi or lidl in Baldoyle but was refused

Hollister11

Stheno wrote: »

Across the road from jus de vine

I made the post, I know that. The site near baldoyle that a supermarket was meant to go into.

Dizzyblonde

There was a tin church on that site in Portmarnock for decades, until the 80s. When I was a child we went to Portmarnock beach a lot, and sometimes went to mass there. As far as I know the locals are very sentimental about the site and that's probably why it hasn't been built on before now.
There's a picture of the old church (you have to scroll down to the bottom) and information about a ceremony that took place there in 2007 here:

https://gerarderraught.com/exhault/

AlabamaWorley

It's going to be awful!

traco

It appears that planning has been granted, mad idea considering that Lidl / Aldi is a destination shop that customers drive to and theres one in Baldoyle and one in Coolock. A Dunnes just up the road, 24hr Tesco in Clarehall along with a Supervalu, Supervalu in Malahide & Sutton also. No logical reason for another supermarket in the area as there are multiples within 10 mins???? I never see anyone walking to or from a Lidl / Aldi.
http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/orders/245/D245989.pdf
From loosely following the appeals I thought that it was ineveitable that planning would be granted, irrespective of an logical opjections.

There is another planning application in progess at present for a restuarant on the new block (already built so assume its just a change of use) at the corner of Carrickhill road which would be a nice amenity to the area, I'm watching this one with interest as its now the subject of an appeal.
https://www.facebook.com/PortmarnockCommunityAssociation/posts/1050520965020365

IMO that site should have been devloped as a village centre / amentity area. The village needs a few cafes / restaurants / small shops etc. Il Panorma is doing a great trade and a few other places offering casual dining would be an excellent addition as there is a significant population within walking distance. Smyths Butchers, Mr Green, Sima coffee are all halping but they are spread apart and don;t develop enough footfall to take it to the next level. The village will never reach its potential unless it reaches a tipping point whereby there is a reason for people to stop and engage, wander around, have a coffee etc.

Seems like nothing has changed in Fingal Co Co, planning for the community interests is out the window if there is enough levies to be secured from big business. If they ran a tighter ship then they would be able to invest properly in areas. In their 2010 accounts they made provisions for bad debts in excess of €75m (Less: Provision for Doubtful Debts (75,383,193)). I havent downloaded subsequent years to follow their financial activities as that one made me sick enough.

Its another example of how inept all authorities are in this country and it is only compounded by the lack of accountability.

dak

Planning was granted by the planning Board who overturned their own Inspectors decision . The only possible way to object now is by way of judical review to the High Court but that is a risky road as losers pay all fees which could be between 100 to 200k.

It will ruin the Character of Portmarnock Village . Most of the people in Portmarnock would like to see the site developed but not with a monstrosity of a building.

Dak

Allyall

It's a shame. The planning board for Fingal seem to be refusing nothing though.

neris

Allyall wrote: »

It's a shame. The planning board for Fingal seem to be refusing nothing though.

€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ :rolleyes:

Allyall

neris wrote: »

€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ :rolleyes:

Yeah, no doubt.
But don't councillors decide? Then it gets overturned...?

What is the point in the BS planning/refusal front/stuff the council do if the planning board can overturn it.

mahoganygas

I rarely go into Portmarnock as there is not a lot I need in the shops/amenities.

I would definitely visit Portmarnock on at least a weekly basis if there was a Lidl/Aldi. And i'd be inclined to park up, get my shopping, then stroll around and perhaps try some of the other businesses.

Allyall

mahoganygas wrote: »

I rarely go into Portmarnock as there is not a lot I need in the shops/amenities.

I would definitely visit Portmarnock on at least a weekly basis if there was a Lidl/Aldi. And i'd be inclined to park up, get my shopping, then stroll around and perhaps try some of the other businesses.

There's not a lot there, and it's unlikely enough people would share your enthusiasm, or venture further than Lidl.
I would like to think that it would do good for businesses in the area. But i doubt it.

lawred2

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

BowWow wrote: »

Where's that?

Here I think...
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3984818,-6.1490448,3a,75y,169.22h,78.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp0vTbLzgzDTuQuWhotsCuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Access to that site would be desperate

lawred2

Fingal CC should be promoting small local business for the likes of Portmarnock - not just more soulless multiples

It needs little businesses that will give it some sense of being a village.. bakeries, cafes etc etc

At the moment it's a collection of ugly and disjointed strip malls and one off premises... no cohesion whatsoever.

Ernest

AlabamaWorley wrote: »

It's going to be awful!

Lets face it Portmarnock does not have a town centre of any kind. All there is is a kind of "shanty town" of shops along Strand Road (the road from roundabout down from the DART towards the roundabout below Carrighill Rd).
Any regular large scale multinational retailer such as Lidl would enhance the area.

Allyall

It depends on your definition of enhance I guess.

Personally, I like the way it looks now, and I think plonking a Lidl there would create bottlenecks in traffic, and aesthetically, I definitely don't think it would enhance that area..

neris

mahoganygas wrote: »

I rarely go into Portmarnock as there is not a lot I need in the shops/amenities.

I would definitely visit Portmarnock on at least a weekly basis if there was a Lidl/Aldi. And i'd be inclined to park up, get my shopping, then stroll around and perhaps try some of the other businesses.

Would you visit Baldoyle on a weekly basis at the moment as theres a Lidl there? Lots of people go to Lidl but very few of them if any seem to wander around Baldoyle after

dslamjack

The Council should have held off any new permission for either Lidl or Aldi ,till the Rush main street project was started,one way or the other.
At the rate it's going ye won't be able to go any where without going past an Aldi/Lidl ,they seem to have replaced the Councils appetites for apartment block's in the recent past.
I'm a shopper in both stores and as has been said,95% of shoppers drive there and do not have access to other shops because of their location,(some would say that it was on purpose).
One of the few exceptions I can think of off hand is the Aldi store in Finglas ,has shops in the carpark and Lidl on the Malahide Rd ,again part of a shopping development.
And their is of course the effect on traffic , local shops and employment to be considered,also the fact that Swords has more supermarkets(with 2 new one's being built)than ye could throw a stick at.
It's more housing,better roads and access infrastructure and the like of the Primary Care unit in Balbriggan we need ,NOT more supermarkets.

neris

dslamjack wrote: »

At the rate it's going ye won't be able to go any where without going past an Aldi/Lidl

You forgot Starbucks

mahoganygas

neris wrote: »

Would you visit Baldoyle on a weekly basis at the moment as theres a Lidl there? Lots of people go to Lidl but very few of them if any seem to wander around Baldoyle after

It's a bit further out of the way. I tend to go to the one on Malahide road and would often call into Woodies, Halfords, Mc D's etc.

neris

mahoganygas wrote: »

It's a bit further out of the way. I tend to go to the one on Malahide road and would often call into Woodies, Halfords, Mc D's etc.

Only problem with those is they are all large multi nationals though. The coffee shops, newsagent, hairdressers and other business nearby Lidl in Baldoyle or the site in Portmarnock are all small independent businesses. That retail park is more of a destination place

Allyall

neris wrote: »

Only problem with those is they are all large multi nationals though. The coffee shops, newsagent, hairdressers and other business nearby Lidl in Baldoyle or the site in Portmarnock are all small independent businesses. That retail park is more of a destination place

Across from the Lidl that's going into Portmarnock, there's an off licence that will suffer, a School Uniform place that will be competing with Lidl's cheap Uniforms at the start of the School year, and a few other businesses that rely on local and passing trade, that Lidl will take some business from.
Pharmacy, Bakery, etc..
I don't see how having one store selling everything is going to help small local businesses, when it's main purpose is to take/win many of their customers.

Hollister11

Allyall wrote: »

Across from the Lidl that's going into Portmarnock, there's an off licence that will suffer, a School Uniform place that will be competing with Lidl's cheap Uniforms at the start of the School year, and a few other businesses that rely on local and passing trade, that Lidl will take some business from.
Pharmacy, Bakery, etc..
I don't see how having one store selling everything is going to help small local businesses, when it's main purpose is to take/win many of their customers.

If it takes business around from Dunnes, that can only be a good thing. I do feel sorry for the small businesses.

Grolschevik

I'm not so sure. I'm not in favour of the plan, but primarily for traffic reasons.

I think that those people that know and use the fantastic and award-winning off-licence, for example, will continue to do so. There's a Dunnes, a Lidl in Baldoyle, a Lidl near Clarehall, and the massive Tesco at Clarehall, all only about two miles away. And yet people still drive to that off-licence. And maybe if people unfamiliar with the area wander across the road, they may even see an increase in footfall.

Biggest loser, I would say, will be the petrol station shop. Most of the other retailers are niche enough.

The greengrocer, for example, has way better quality fruit and veg than any German multiple. Same for the butcher, but they already do comparable deals and prices.

Allyall

Yes, but they will lose some (possibly quite a lot of) customers. It's far more likely that someone going out to buy 6 cans of lager will go into Lidl, or someone looking for a quick dinner etc. The Off Licence will suffer, award winning or not. As will the butchers, pharmacy and Greengrocers.
Petrol station shop will do okay. When people go into pay for their petrol, they grab items. Unlikely they'll want to drive a bit further down the road to grab a cup of coffee or a packet of crisps.
As for the greengrocer, when people are in doing their shopping in Lidl, they'll grab a bit of fruit and veg. (Don't Lidl do specials and have highly recommended fruit and veg?).
Depending on the size of the carpark they put in, the traffic could be okay or horrendous.

Grolschevik

Again, not so sure. For example, I sometimes shop in Charlestown in Finglas, and I'll use the off-licence there as it chills its product. The Dunnes, Aldi, and Lidl within walking distance don't.

Similarly, if I shop in the Aldi there, I'll go across to the butcher shop there because of the quality and bundle deals. Same if I shop in Tesco in Clarehall; there's a butcher just across the way that offers better and often cheaper stuff than Tesco.

Depends where the bulk of the customers come from. I really doubt that someone after a six-pack of lager would go into a Lidl just for that -- to (a) find that what they really want is out of stock, (b) pick up some generic stuff they've never heard of, and (c) suffer warm rather than chilled.

Especially when, if they don't want to use the off-licence, there are numerous other supermarkets less than a ten-minute drive away. That makes me think that the main impact may involve those not driving. Then again, I've seen people pay way over the odds for an off-sale of warm Bud from the pub than bother to walk the hundred yards to the off-licence.

Butcher: you may be right. Depends.

Pharmacy: people don't go into pharmacies just for 60c shower gel. Painkillers, Rennie etc are a comparable price in Lidl.

But I guess we'll see.

Traffic already pretty bad at school-getting-out hours. Lidl can only make it worse.

Also: "Petrol station shop ... When people go into pay for their petrol, they grab items." True, but very many of its customers (me included) use it because it's the nearest shop in walking and driving terms to all those developments up on Station Road and into "Old" Portmarnock. And it is not good value on branded items at all!

Atlantic Dawn

It's a terrible site for it, traffic will be mahem from 9 till 10pm each day. Surely there's a far better site somewhere between the turn to the right of the place and Portmarnock Golf Course, plenty of space and wouldn't bother anyone except an arctic tern every 100 years or that.

Allyall

I think everyone agrees it is a terrible site regarding the traffic.

Regarding the Pharmacy (or any other business), it's not that people go in there to buy a 60c bottle of shower gel, it's that when they're in there, they buy a few other items that they may need which in turn helps keep the shop open through the tougher periods.
With Lidl next door, they'll not be doing that as often.

Isn't another Lidl or Aldi also going into Malahide?

Grolschevik

Allyall wrote: »

I think everyone agrees it is a terrible site regarding the traffic.

Regarding the Pharmacy (or any other business), it's not that people go in there to buy a 60c bottle of shower gel, it's that when they're in there, they buy a few other items that they may need which in turn helps keep the shop open through the tougher periods.
With Lidl next door, they'll not be doing that as often.

Isn't another Lidl or Aldi also going into Malahide?

A better way of stating my points is that people don't go into supermarkets just to pick up a thing or two, unless the alternatives are non-existent or gougingly expensive. They go into supermarkets for larger shopping. And, yeah, they may well pick up their six-pack or bottle of wine while they're there.

But someone who only wants an ice-cream, a Cornish pasty, a packet of crisps, a box of Rennie, a six-pack, or a newspaper etc is more likely to avoid the supermarket queues and hassle (the product hide-and-seek and till time) and go to the alternative local shop. At least, I would.

And people who pick up all those things as part of their weekly shop? They'd do that in whatever supermarket they go to, whether it's in Portmarnock or not.

dak

Allyall wrote: »

Yes, but they will lose some (possibly quite a lot of) customers. It's far more likely that someone going out to buy 6 cans of lager will go into Lidl, or someone looking for a quick dinner etc. The Off Licence will suffer, award winning or not. As will the butchers, pharmacy and Greengrocers.
Petrol station shop will do okay. When people go into pay for their petrol, they grab items. Unlikely they'll want to drive a bit further down the road to grab a cup of coffee or a packet of crisps.
As for the greengrocer, when people are in doing their shopping in Lidl, they'll grab a bit of fruit and veg. (Don't Lidl do specials and have highly recommended fruit and veg?).
Depending on the size of the carpark they put in, the traffic could be okay or horrendous.

The site will have 85 car parking spaces ( Under the planning conditions they are stated as public car parking at all times ) . I live 100 yards from the development and already it is hard to turn right at certain times of the day. The An Bord Pleanala Board overturned their own inspector who recommended refusing the appeal.

The Board stated in their original decision that the development " would not be likely to give rise to a traffic hazard " . This wording is dropped in the final document published on Fingals planning page and is replaced with " would be acceptable in terms of traffic safety and convenience"

Dak

neris

dak wrote: »

The Board stated in their original decision that the development " would not be likely to give rise to a traffic hazard " . This wording is dropped in the final document published on Fingals planning page and is replaced with " would be acceptable in terms of traffic safety and convenience"

they must have conveniently forgotten the primary school & special needs service a hundred meters up the road and the creche directly opposite the site when it came to safety.

dslamjack

All the relevant information is here ....

http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00512824.pdf


http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=F15A/0265&theTabNo=8

Interesting that the site was originally earmarked for a community centre / library.

Grolschevik

dslamjack wrote:

Interesting that the site was originally earmarked for a community centre / library.

That would have been fantastic.

Allyall

Grolschevik wrote: »

That would have been fantastic.

Who's going to pay them to allow a community centre there? :rolleyes:

That would have been a great idea.
I'd really love to know the reason the decision was overturned.

Atlantic Dawn

I'd imagine traffic lights will need to be fitted and these will result in a backing of cars on the next set of lights near the school and complete mayhem.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

That village is already a nightmare to drive through. How this got approved is bizarre. I'm sure we all know how it was eventually approved

There are hectares of land about 400 meters down the road that could accommodate the shopping unit but most importantly, there would be space to allow a proper access road.

I really hope this gets appealed and refused.

odyssey06

DCC gave planning permission for LIDL in East Wall, at the same junction as an ALDI, on one of the main routes across the city and one of the main access roads to Dublin Port. So it wouldn't surprise me if this gets the go-ahead... I would be concerned about the traffic too.

That's interesting that the parking spaces are *public* rather than LIDL only. I assume that would mean free for 2-3 hours? So that might help some of the other businesses in the vicinity.

dslamjack

From what I can see it's a done deal,as was said above the only other option is the legal route ,and that would be throwing good money after bad.
I'm afraid people are stuck with it now,it goes to show how important it is to keep an eye on the L.A.P (local area plan submissions for the new plan are now closed) and on new planning applications.
Time to vist ,call or mail your local councillor and let them know of your concern,and how your ''concern'' can effect your voting pattern's on such matters and local issues.
I have to say the https://www.mapalerter.com/latest/planning/item/fingal-county-council-planning-alert-19-05-2016-10727 ... is really handy,its only since I discovered it that I try to keep a bit of an eye on these things,because not everything gets reported in the local papers.

P.S in the new Donabate area plan ... permission has been granted for a supermarket ...errr ...Lidl or Aldi .. I'd wager

mayway

Does anyone know when the shop is going to be built?

dak

Hi Mayway

They are currently digging test holes for the foundations and the build is expected to start in Jan 2017. They managed to knock out the electricity in Portmarnock last week when they hit a cable that wasn't on an ESB map !

Regards

Dak

Brendan Bendar

Big White hoarding all around the site now.

Sounds of digging.

Opening in "the Spring" .


Predicting traffic problems.

easygoing39

Site looks well,white hoarding with a go-faster 2 tone green strip!! Safety notice,site map and builders details on a notice board at the gate,looks very professional and above board.

Hollister11

I Still wish it was a aldi. Lidl is only in Baldoyle