palour plant autowasher advantages

kerry cow

What are the advantages of instant a plant washer when you still spend up to 15 minutes washing down clusters and concrete , I feel I can do both jobs at same time for 5 minutes extra , have other people got a better system , open to offers , thanks

blackdog1

kerry cow wrote:

What are the advantages of instant a plant washer when you still spend up to 15 minutes washing down clusters and concrete , I feel I can do both jobs at same time for 5 minutes extra , have other people got a better system , open to offers , thanks

Disadvantages is you use twice the amount of detergent. Advantages is you save 10 minutes twice a day by not having to rinse the machine for start of the milking. So all you have to do is collect the cows and press a button to start. It's last on my list of improvements for a 1 man operation.

C4d78

kerry cow wrote: »

What are the advantages of instant a plant washer when you still spend up to 15 minutes washing down clusters and concrete , I feel I can do both jobs at same time for 5 minutes extra , have other people got a better system , open to offers , thanks

Wouldn't be without it. Auto washer is only half way through its cycle when I'm finished washing down parlour.
Come back in evening and it's ready for milking. Massive time saver for me but each to their own.
Admittedly it does use much more detergent as you can't reuse morning detergent in evening.

kerry cow

We only detergent wash in morning and rinse with two baths of cold water in evenings , quite fast and tbc is pretty good all year round , but people tell me also it is very handy if you have different staff relief milking and also not having to handle chemicals ,

whelan2

blackdog1 wrote: »

Disadvantages is you use twice the amount of detergent. Advantages is you save 10 minutes twice a day by not having to rinse the machine for start of the milking. So all you have to do is collect the cows and press a button to start. It's last on my list of improvements for a 1 man operation.

Do many people rinse the machine before milking? Never did it here

kowtow

whelan2 wrote: »

Do many people rinse the machine before milking? Never did it here

I don't either.. after hot wash One tank of rinse water and then another with a bit of serpent in it. Don't re-use anything in the evening.

Shut the machine off, take the cluster washers off and open the drains.

I should add the caveat that I haven't a clue what I am doing, but I've only had one tiny case of mastitis in 3 years.

Buford T. Justice XIX

whelan2 wrote: »

Do many people rinse the machine before milking? Never did it here

Some products should be left in the plant to soak before washing out before milking, others need to be washed out of the plant after the wash.

I don't know which ones though.

I get 3 washes from each mix of detergent, so it's only changed every 3 milkings. TBC 6 atm.

But I use loads of rinse water before I start the wash. If you see fatty bubbles when you wash, you aren't using enough rinse to wash the milk out of the line. So lots of the detergent is used to clean up residues that shouldn't be there and you can get a build up of dirt in the plant.

blackdog1

whelan2 wrote:

Do many people rinse the machine before milking? Never did it here

Yes better kill if left for longer

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

But I use loads of rinse water before I start the wash. If you see fatty bubbles when you wash, you aren't using enough rinse to wash the milk out of the line. So lots of the detergent is used to clean up residues that shouldn't be there and you can get a build up of dirt in the plant.

Someone local used to / does use warm water for the initial rinse. I can't remember but It might have been reclaimed from a plate cooler. I believe that can make a big difference.

Timmaay

Yes vote for the auto washer here also. It's one of those items you will not fully appreciate until you have it in, especially if your largely a 1 man show like me. I'm usually washing out the empty row while last row being milked, and putting washer cups on as they come off, and wash down the clusters then (always have the last row on the opposite side to the washer cups), if there is any slow cow etc I'm waiting for her cluster to come off. Row goes out, 10secs to wash out that row, manually blow out the milk pump for 17 secs, air inject for 10secs, pull out the pipe, drain out the final 3 or 4 litres for the calfs. If I'm in a rush the filter gets left in and I'm out the gate then lol (training immediately after milking Mon, Tue Wed and Friday evenings ha)

And during calving season etc when I'd be around anyways after milking I'm that flatout with calves etc having an auto washer is one less job for me so still totally worth it.

Finally on the pure economics of it, it cost me 2700 after the grant. Assume it saves me 20mins/day, or roughly 120hrs a yr, valuing my time at say 15e an hr that's worth 1800e/yr. It was the one item I was on the Fence about, but safe to say I'm very happy I put it in.

Milked out

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

whelan2 wrote: »

Do many people rinse the machine before milking? Never did it here

Some products should be left in the plant to soak before washing out before milking, others need to be washed out of the plant after the wash.

I don't know which ones though.

I get 3 washes from each mix of detergent, so it's only changed every 3 milkings. TBC 6 atm.

But I use loads of rinse water before I start the wash. If you see fatty bubbles when you wash, you aren't using enough rinse to wash the milk out of the line. So lots of the detergent is used to clean up residues that shouldn't be there and you can get a build up of dirt in the plant.

I use a split rinse in first and last rinse as I find with the electric milk.pump jar doesn't rinse properly with one rinse. The old double diaphragm had no issue with one rinse.

Dawggone

Auto wash here. TBC never more than 8k.
Idiot proof.

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

Someone local used to / does use warm water for the initial rinse. I can't remember but It might have been reclaimed from a plate cooler. I believe that can make a big difference.

I use the plate cooler water for the rinse as well (pay once, use twice:)) even though you're not supposed to use it as it can raise the thermoduric if it is stored before using, iirc.

On auto washing, I was looking at it but decided not to as water pressure is poor here. And I would have to wait for the water for each cycle to fill so it could take an age in summer with water pressure dropping. I would have to upgrade the water pressure so that took it out of reasonable to may do later.

Also, I check each unit at the start of the wash and the odd one wouldn't be washing due to an airlock so I reckon I would miss those not washing and it could rise my TBC.

On the plus side, though, they are fairly well programmable so you can set up the wash pretty much as you want and add peracetic acid to help sterilise the plant at the end of each rinse cycle. And set it up to have it rinsed before milking each morning/evening if that's the way you wash the plant.

kerry cow

Can you set the auto wash to do a hot wash daily or intermittent ? If it hot washes each day and you need hot water for tank do you need two water heaters , if I need to add a second water heater any recommendations out there as to the best options

kowtow

Out of interest - how do those using the old fashioned manual way with no autowasher (and only 150 litres I think of hot water at a time)... handle manual tank washing?

What's the best way to wash it, what products etc (same as parlour)...

at the moment we just find a way to do it, but were not on a co-op emptying regime so a lot of what is left in the tank is for the slurry anyway....

Buford T. Justice XIX

kerry cow wrote: »

Can you set the auto wash to do a hot wash daily or intermittent ? If it hot washes each day and you need hot water for tank do you need two water heaters , if I need to add a second water heater any recommendations out there as to the best options

The hot wash on my tank is the same one as would be used on the parlour.

It allows two different wash cycles, caustic and acid and it rotates through 2 caustic and one acid every cycle, all hot washes.

Some of the more technical washers allow you to programme which ever way you want but would be a lot dearer, I imagine.

I never thought of asking if you could use recycled washes, tbh:o.

I alternate the washes of the tank and milking machine. Day 1 hot tank, day 2 hot plant, day 3 cold plant. Repeat.

I'm tight on water anyway with 200l for 16 units but you've caused me to think some more about how an autowasher would fit in.

freedominacup

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I use the plate cooler water for the rinse as well (pay once, use twice:)) even though you're not supposed to use it as it can raise the thermoduric if it is stored before using, iirc.

On auto washing, I was looking at it but decided not to as water pressure is poor here. And I would have to wait for the water for each cycle to fill so it could take an age in summer with water pressure dropping. I would have to upgrade the water pressure so that took it out of reasonable to may do later.

Also, I check each unit at the start of the wash and the odd one wouldn't be washing due to an airlock so I reckon I would miss those not washing and it could rise my TBC.

On the plus side, though, they are fairly well programmable so you can set up the wash pretty much as you want and add peracetic acid to help sterilise the plant at the end of each rinse cycle. And set it up to have it rinsed before milking each morning/evening if that's the way you wash the plant.

Sheriff I reckon you could be losing a lot of litres with your poor water pressure. I know it's a bad year to even be thinking about it but the next good year, hah, you should make the tax man pay for the upgrade to pipes and pumps.

Buford T. Justice XIX

freedominacup wrote: »

Sheriff I reckon you could be losing a lot of litres with your poor water pressure. I know it's a bad year to even be thinking about it but the next good year, hah, you should make the tax man pay for the upgrade to pipes and pumps.

Yeah, probably lose a few alright but I work around it, tbh.

A few troughs are accessible from the roadways so they have a chance to drink on the way in and out. It doesn't seem to slow them down much except in very dry weather. I have a trough ready for the yard just to get a chance to level it so they will have access in the yard as well.

I would love to bury pipes as well but ground doesn't really allow it. And would love to go up from 3/4 in pipe as well.

The auld 13th payment should sort it and pay off the mortgage and sort the pension as well:pac:

kevthegaff

Big reason I'd think of auto wash is seem to get rash on my neck sometimes, not sure detergent or ... anyways all washings here go into power hose tank, handy

straight

Trying to decide between fullwood or Atl auto wash here. Any recommendations?

K.G.

Gwizz ,ye are all soft out.no auto washer for tank or machine,no ration feeders,no backing gate.no gym membership needed either.😆.

Sam Kade

kerry cow wrote: »

What are the advantages of instant a plant washer when you still spend up to 15 minutes washing down clusters and concrete , I feel I can do both jobs at same time for 5 minutes extra , have other people got a better system , open to offers , thanks

Wasn't it only last week you were thinking of getting an auto washer?

kerry cow

Sam Kade wrote:

Wasn't it only last week you were thinking of getting an auto washer?

If you look my comments are a year apart and I have not installed one as of yet

Buford T. Justice XIX

I timed the wash cycle here a while back to see if I could justify spending on an auto wash for the plant.

3 minutes rinsing out the milk.
10 minutes washing the plant.
3 minutes rinsing out the wash.

Now, it takes 6-10 minutes to wash the floors and walls depending on the time of year and how agitated the cows are. So I do that while the plant washes and tip around filling pre-wash sprayers, Peracetic acid for the rinse water, throw a sup of wash milk to the late calves, etc, etc while the plant is washing.

I came to the conclusion the only way I could justify the spend was if I had a lot of relief milkers doing the milking, which I don't. I know everyones goals are different but I'm struggling to see much saving in time or effort in getting in an auotwash when I would be in the parlour doing different bits and pieces for that length of time anyway?

blackdog1

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

I came to the conclusion the only way I could justify the spend was if I had a lot of relief milkers doing the milking, which I don't. I know everyones goals are different but I'm struggling to see much saving in time or effort in getting in an auotwash when I would be in the parlour doing different bits and pieces for that length of time anyway?

What's the cost of 1? Was looking at 1 down the line but I've alot more to do before that.

Buford T. Justice XIX

blackdog1 wrote: »

What's the cost of 1? Was looking at 1 down the line but I've alot more to do before that.

It's been a while since I priced them but I reckon you would be looking at 4k minimum and that's if there are no other problems like water pressure?

Mooooo

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It's been a while since I priced them but I reckon you would be looking at 4k minimum and that's if there are no other problems like water pressure?

There is a grant for them I think? I heard 2.5k for them anyway but that was a few years ago. Prob more alright when being retrofitted. Anyone put in a switch so that water for the cooler comes only when the milk pump switches on?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mooooo wrote: »

There is a grant for them I think? I heard 2.5k for them anyway but that was a few years ago. Prob more alright when being retrofitted. Anyone put in a switch so that water for the cooler comes only when the milk pump switches on?

Yould be right with that figure because I think I had the option of putting in a two stage plate cooler, or a second single stage plate cooler with solenoids for switching on and off the pump water for the second cooler, included in that. Mains in the first one running constantly.

Timmaay

Mooooo wrote: »

There is a grant for them I think? I heard 2.5k for them anyway but that was a few years ago. Prob more alright when being retrofitted. Anyone put in a switch so that water for the cooler comes only when the milk pump switches on?

Most companies charge 4 to 4500, the max grant amount is 4500, at 40% that leaves you at 2700 after grant. The water pressure makes no difference to a Gascoigne autowasher, ours was incorrectly plumbed into a low pressure half inch pipe, still worked grand but took about 40mins for the full cycle (most that with the machine turned off, and the wash trough waiting to fill), I changed the feed to a 3/4 from the mains, and the cycle is complete in about 15min now.

Have a variable speed milk pump here also, the controller has an output to control the plate cooler solenoid, the variable speed pump was a 500e extra but well worth it in my view, the milk flows slower and more steady through the plate cooler, and the solenoid means water isn't wasted when no milk is flowing.

My next step is to plumb in some of the waste plate cooler water to have the rinse water for the autowasher full before end of every milking, would save 400l of water a day!

K.G.

Timmaay wrote: »

Most companies charge 4 to 4500, the max grant amount is 4500, at 40% that leaves you at 2700 after grant. The water pressure makes no difference to a Gascoigne autowasher, ours was incorrectly plumbed into a low pressure half inch pipe, still worked grand but took about 40mins for the full cycle (most that with the machine turned off, and the wash trough waiting to fill), I changed the feed to a 3/4 from the mains, and the cycle is complete in about 15min now.

Have a variable speed milk pump here also, the controller has an output to control the plate cooler solenoid, the variable speed pump was a 500e extra but well worth it in my view, the milk flows slower and more steady through the plate cooler, and the solenoid means water isn't wasted when no milk is flowing.

My next step is to plumb in some of the waste plate cooler water to have the rinse water for the autowasher full before end of every milking, would save 400l of water a day!

I m thinking if wiring a solenoid for the plate cooler off the milk pump controller so when its going the water is full flow but when milk stops it closes off water as well

Timmaay

K.G. wrote: »

I m thinking if wiring a solenoid for the plate cooler off the milk pump controller so when its going the water is full flow but when milk stops it closes off water as well

Yep that should work no problems also, just make sure it's a 220v solenoid (any domestic heating one will do), would save a decent bit of water, plus save you the hassle of having to open and close the lever every milking.

quader

Was buying 1 last week . Auto washer was 4500 wash trough 1100 air purge was 1200 and a diverter valve was another 800

Buford T. Justice XIX

quader wrote: »

Was buying 1 last week . Auto washer was 4500 wash trough 1100 air purge was 1200 and a diverter valve was another 800

Extra or included in the 4500?

quader

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Extra or included in the 4500?

Xtra and plus vat

kerry cow

What make was that .
Close to 8k all together ?

quader

kerry cow wrote:

What make was that . Close to 8k all together ?

Dairymaster. Got some fright was told it was no good without the air purge and the valve was so I had a choice where I sent the waste watet

straight

Delaval is 7500, Atl is 5k. All + vat

K.G.

I dont about the rest if ye but im shocked at the thought of spending 8k on auto washing.i dont think it saves any time if you wash down the parlour anyway

whelan2

K.G. wrote: »

I dont about the rest if ye but im shocked at the thought of spending 8k on auto washing.i dont think it saves any time if you wash down the parlour anyway

Easy knowing milk price is higher....

Mooooo

8k is serious, you have to bargain hard with them kerry whores!

Sam Kade

Mooooo wrote: »

8k is serious, you have to bargain hard with them kerry whores!

Hoors? Unless they are on the game :eek:

Mooooo

Sam Kade wrote: »

Hoors? Unless they are on the game :eek:

feckin autocorrect

mahoney_j

All I'll add is I have it and wouldn't be without ,consistent daily wash routine tbc averaging 5,k forcyear .some of prices been quoted here seem exorbitant ,maby because there been added down the road .i loaded my parlour up with loads of bells and whistles when I put it in ,way more room for negotiation on price and better deal to be got ,don't regret adding all the extras .cost a few quid granted but finance structured to suit and circa 100 cows milked and parlour washed down in an hour or so ATM

yewtree

Priced dairymaster €4500 for autowash on a 20 unit persume size of parliur doesnt effect price that much

Sam Kade

mahoney_j wrote: »

All I'll add is I have it and wouldn't be without ,consistent daily wash routine tbc averaging 5,k forcyear .some of prices been quoted here seem exorbitant ,maby because there been added down the road .i loaded my parlour up with loads of bells and whistles when I put it in ,way more room for negotiation on price and better deal to be got ,don't regret adding all the extras .cost a few quid granted but finance structured to suit and circa 100 cows milked and parlour washed down in an hour or so ATM

That's good going but do you spend as long hosing down the parlour as it spends washing the plant?

quader

yewtree wrote:

Priced dairymaster €4500 for autowash on a 20 unit persume size of parliur doesnt effect price that much

But does it includes a wash trough do u all ready have an air purge

straight

If you fail some of the quality tests the fines don't be long adding up.

mahoney_j

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's good going but do you spend as long hosing down the parlour as it spends washing the plant?

Wash cycle is rinse ,detergent /acid (one in every 3 washes is acid )and final rinse .washing down parlour takes 5/8 minutes depending on how clean/dirty cows are .machine usually starting up as I'm leaving parlour for first rinse
I also buy my detergents/acids in 200 ltr drums and place just beside wash tank ,no handelibg chemicals and a lot cheaper buy the bigger drums

mahoney_j

straight wrote: »

If you fail some of the quality tests the fines don't be long adding up.

TBH vast majority milking cows wether they have auto wash or not don't fail quality tests .test parameters are pretty wide as well <50 k in arrabawn .fella that has an average of say 8 k for year is treated same as lad with 48 k average which I think is wrong

kowtow

straight wrote: »

Delaval is 7500, Atl is 5k. All + vat

Out of interest I know you can't get the grant on second hand machines but do you get it on new additions to old parlours? autowashers / acrs for example?

Keepgrowing

I'm shocked at prices being quoted, afterall all your getting is a system that'll save very little time as it'll take 10-15 minutes to hose out parlour and this can be done as washing takes place.

Detergent used here requires no rincing or milking pre rince.

2-4 units or an excellent drafting system would give a much higher return.