Not having kids

Confucius say

hi there. Just wondering how other guys out there feel about being childless. It seems to cross my mind a fair bit these days as I hurtle towards 40. I'm currently single and it's looking likely that I may never have kids. I think I'm ok with that, but my biggest gripe is that my parents never will have grand kids.
I feel a bit bad as I can't think of any of their friends or acquaintances who don't have grand kids and I know my mother would love it more than anything, her being the ultra maternal type. They did everything for me and without them I wouldn't be where I am now, which is in a pretty good place.
They have a great life anyway but it crosses my mind, especially when I'm in a low mood.
I know I'm not too old to have kids but I don't particularly want to be in a relationship or particularly want to have kids.
So yeah, anyone in a similar boat?

acon2119

I do have kids so I cannot give you advice from the perspective of someone like yourself, but I will say that if you don't want a relationship or children, don't have them to please your parents or feel that this is what you should be doing at 40. Live your life on your own terms, it may or may not be right for you to have kids.

Everyone's path in life is different. Embrace the good parts of your life

Confucius say

acon2119 wrote: »

I do have kids so I cannot give you advice from the perspective of someone like yourself, but I will say that if you don't want a relationship or children, don't have them to please your parents or feel that this is what you should be doing at 40. Live your life on your own terms, it may or may not be right for you to have kids.

Everyone's path in life is different. Embrace the good parts of your life

Thanks. I'm aware of that, I guess I just feel bad, and it's hard dealing with the guilt of not giving my parents grand children. I just can't think of better grandparents either.

sozbox

I'm not childless I'm childfree

drunkmonkey

Confucius say wrote: »

It seems to cross my mind a fair bit these days as I hurtle towards 40. I'm currently single and it's looking likely that I may never have kids. I think I'm ok with that, but my biggest gripe is that my parents never will have grand kids.
I feel a bit bad

40 is not old, and there's plenty of women hurtling towards 40 that would be throwing their knickers at you.
Being single a good while can be comfortable and you'd be happy to potter on, relationships, kids will distrurb the hell out of that lifestyle but it's worth it.
It could be time to enlist the help of a few mates to help you get back in the saddle, they'll only by delghted to help you along. Gives them an excuse to get out for a good cause.

Just by the sound of you, I think you might have kids if you meet someone but you'll have to put yourself out there and doing that when your 40 isn't easy, I see a mate in the same boat, can't be out partying every night trying to get lucky, tinder/pof has been a string of highs and lows but had made for some good stories.
Have any of your mates wives/girlfriends got some single friends, it could be where to look I'd bet one of them knows somebody and you'll have a connection at the start which helps. He who dares Rodney!!

eviltwin

Confucius say wrote: »

Thanks. I'm aware of that, I guess I just feel bad, and it's hard dealing with the guilt of not giving my parents grand children. I just can't think of better grandparents either.

Don't feel guilty. Having children is a vocation, its not for everyone. No matter how great your parents are you are still the one who has to raise them so you need to be damn sure you are ready for it. As much as they would love grandchildren I'm sure ultimately they want you to be happy living the life you want.

Speedwell

My husband and I are in our 40s and have no children. (Our parents have grandchildren, sure enough; just not from us!) We met and married in our mid-40s, though, and even though my body is still making noise like I could get pregnant, for many good reasons we decided it wasn't for us. No remorse, no apologies, nobody's business but our own. If we feel the urge to have kids, we'll borrow some nieces/nephews for a couple days and the urge will pass. If it doesn't pass, we'll adopt a child in need. But this will likely not happen, and it is probably better so, not only for us, but also for the child. Only people who genuinely want children should indulge themselves.

SarahMollie

I think some people will always wonder about the path not taken, its only natural.

I can only echo what others have said, in that having children for the sake of your parents is not a good idea.

Also, if you're not seeking a relationship or commitment or whatever, its unlikely to happen, so even though you're wistful about it, the fact that you're not making moves towards a family, says to me that deep down its probably not what you want.

H3llR4iser

Unfortunately there are a lot of people around who should never have had kids and only did because it's "what you do". It's usually the ones sitting for tea while their "little darlings" lay waste to the neighbourhood, tear a restaurant's quiet and peace apart or are buried in their iPhones/iPads with earplugs in while their offspring run up and down the isle of a train carriage.

I have been of the idea I don't want kids since I was a teenager, and it hasn't changed a bit - if anything, the notion has been reinforced. I have a 3 years old nephew who lives in Italy and, although all the people who saw me around him tell me I'm actually very good at the dealings (the irony...), I am even more aware now about how I wouldn't want to care for a child 24/7/365. Some people are just not cut for it, and it's way better when they understand that.

About your parents, being grandparents is not smooth sailing and actually a quite taxing task; I see it with my own folks. They love the little one and enjoy it when he's around, but they were also done with their share of caring for children 20 years ago. Right now, they need to be able to enjoy their retirement years while they're still relatively young and in good health, take trips, go for holidays and all the stuff they couldn't do before - rather than pick up toys and deal with tantrums. So, if your worry is strictly about your parents not being grandparents, you'd be better off thinking it twice or thrice - a grandchild comes with more than just the "fun and lovely" stuff...

Speedwell

Don't let anyone call you "selfish" for not having kids. Having children is something you do for yourself, because you want children. Nobody asks kids before the fact if they choose to be had, lol.

syklops

I don't want kids and neither does herself. We joke about one day maybe adopting a mature student. Despite the wars and famine the population of the earth will be 50% more than what it is now in about 35 years time. A few more childless couples would be no harm at all.

Emme

A man can decide he doesn't want children at 30 then wake up at 40 and decide he does want them. If he meets the right girl he's capable of fathering them up until he's in his 50s or older depending on his state of health.

If you want children it's your choice. However if you're dating a girl who says she wants children and you don't do the decent thing and let her go to find somebody who does want children.

holy guacamole

Am in my mid-thirties, single and do want kids. But due to a health issue, which I'm still in the process of recuperating from, I don't feel ready to re-enter the dating scene which means that I'm in a kind of limbo at the moment. It's possible that I'll be well enough to consider putting myself out there again in the next year or two but like most chronic illnesses its complex.

While its true that men can decide to have children at any point in their lives I do feel like time is running out a bit for me, age is still a big factor and the older I get the less likely it'll be that I become a father.

Similar to the OP I would like to bestow a grandchild upon my mother, I'm an only child and I know it would mean the world to her.

VisibleGorilla

I am childfree by choice, don't see that changing any time soon. It can cause an issue with relationships where my partner doesn't know herself if she does/doesn't want children. I feel this will cause me much heartbreak in the future.

I don't really feel bad about not giving parents grandchildren, why would I put myself through 18+ years of something I am sure I don't want just to please them?

LegacyUser

my gf and I recently split (31/30). Both of us wanted to have children some day but there was a few issues in the relationship that caused stress and we decided to take a break. What pisses me off is that they were relatively minor issues and were readily solvable.

Anyway I feel at the moment that I've missed a chance to have a family with a great girl. Feeling very down and although I know if we don't ever get back together, I could meet someone new and have a family but I feel I would just be settling. Just feeling very raw at the moment and feeling a huge sense of loss for the relationship and for the future we had planned.

Dr Crayfish

holy guacamole wrote: »

While its true that men can decide to have children at any point in their lives

I really hate when people say that. How can a man just decide to have children? Do we have wombs now?
If I remember my sex ed correctly, I think you need to convince a woman to get involved too.

Emme

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I really hate when people say that. How can a man just decide to have children? Do we have wombs now?
If I remember my sex ed correctly, I think you need to convince a woman to get involved too.

In most cases a woman has to convince a man to get involved in a pregnancy unless she uses donor sperm. Some women choose to use donor sperm because they want to or because they can't find a suitable partner to father for their child in their fertile years.

It is better for men to father children in their 20s or 30s but the option is still there after that. It is not there for women once they reach a certain age. Technically a man can decide to have children in his 50s if he meets a suitable partner even though he may not be as energetic as he was in his 20s or 30s.

A man has the option of having children up until his 50s and beyond if he's healthy, sane and self-reliant. The same goes for a woman up until she is 35 and if she has children beyond that age (say up to age 40) she is very lucky indeed. Any woman who has children beyond 40 is a rare exception even with the help of IVF.

Here's a question for all the men who definitely don't want children - would you be willing to have a vasectomy? If not why not?

ancapailldorcha

Emme wrote: »

Here's a question for all the men who definitely don't want children - would you be willing to have a vasectomy? If not why not?

Speaking for myself, I'm not 100% one way or the other.

In addition, why are men somehow "blamed" for pregnancy. The classic line usually refers to "keeping it in his pants" when it takes two. What about women who don't want children getting sterilised?

Speedwell

Emme wrote: »

Any woman who has children beyond 40 is a rare exception even with the help of IVF.

Or unless she doesn't want kids :eek: which is why they tell middle-aged broads like me who are STILL not menopausal to continue to use reliable birth control.

Here's a question for all the men who definitely don't want children - would you be willing to have a vasectomy? If not why not?

I can still weigh in. My first husband had a vasectomy when we were in our mid-20s because we had made the choice not to have children and a doctor told me I had hormonal issues that made me a poor candidate for hormonal birth control, and it was back when the IUD was still considered dangerous. Several years after our divorce, he remarried his old high school sweetheart (charming girl really) and because he was a good guy despite his weaknesses didn't give me hell about his vasectomy. I don't know what he did about it, if anything. I don't want to stop younger guys from having one if they think they really want one, either. But it really is a have-cake-or-eat-it sort of thing. And most women, even those who have never had kids, are now considered candidates for an IUD.

drunkmonkey

wants_em wrote: »

my gf and I recently split (31/30). Both of us wanted to have children some day but there was a few issues in the relationship that caused stress and we decided to take a break. What pisses me off is that they were relatively minor issues and were readily solvable.

Anyway I feel at the moment that I've missed a chance to have a family with a great girl. Feeling very down and although I know if we don't ever get back together, I could meet someone new and have a family but I feel I would just be settling. Just feeling very raw at the moment and feeling a huge sense of loss for the relationship and for the future we had planned.

Find her and tell her all that. Today.

eviltwin

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Speaking for myself, I'm not 100% one way or the other.

In addition, why are men somehow "blamed" for pregnancy. The classic line usually refers to "keeping it in his pants" when it takes two. What about women who don't want children getting sterilised?

Its not that easy to get accepted for a sterilisation. A lot of doctors won't do elective sterilisations and its a major operation.

I think if you know having children isn't for you and there is a quick and available option to prevent that happening why wouldn't you take it?

ancapailldorcha

eviltwin wrote: »

Its not that easy to get accepted for a sterilisation. A lot of doctors won't do elective sterilisations and its a major operation.

I think if you know having children isn't for you and there is a quick and available option to prevent that happening why wouldn't you take it?

Fair point though I'd add that the NHS website describes the risks as "very small".

The key word is "know". I don't. I'm fairly certain that I don't but things change.

Emme

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Speaking for myself, I'm not 100% one way or the other.

In addition, why are men somehow "blamed" for pregnancy. The classic line usually refers to "keeping it in his pants" when it takes two. What about women who don't want children getting sterilised?

Some women who don't want children do get sterilised but most doctors are unwilling to sterilise fertile women. The assumption may be that their fertility will drop off once they reach a certain age so job done, so to speak.

I don't think men are blamed for pregnancy so much now. Both parties have to be responsible and use contraception if there's a chance of a pregnancy they don't want. Or if one party doesn't want a pregnancy. In cases like this most men are responsible and use condoms to avoid STDs as well as unplanned pregnancies.

eviltwin

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Fair point though I'd add that the NHS website describes the risks as "very small".

The key word is "know". I don't. I'm fairly certain that I don't but things change.

The risks are small but its still major surgery so you're talking a much higher cost if you go private and a much longer recovery time compared to the snip. It would make a lot more sense in a relationship for the man to get the procedure.

ancapailldorcha

eviltwin wrote: »

The risks are small but its still major surgery so you're talking a much higher cost if you go private and a much longer recovery time compared to the snip. It would make a lot more sense in a relationship for the man to get the procedure.

Fair enough. Do you think it would be fair to say the same about women were the procedure as safe and available as a vasectomy?

eviltwin

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Fair enough. Do you think it would be fair to say the same about women were the procedure as safe and available as a vasectomy?

If it was as cheap and easy for me to get my tubes done as it is for a man to get the snip I'd have done it years ago. My family is complete and I want to use contraception long term. Its fine and dandy my husband having a vasectomy but for me I need to know that I can't get pregnant, not that he can't get me pregnant if that makes sense.

Speedwell

Emme wrote: »

Some women who don't want children do get sterilised but most doctors are unwilling to sterilise fertile women. The assumption may be that their fertility will drop off once they reach a certain age so job done, so to speak.

And it's such a catch-22; most doctors are unwilling to sterilise younger women because "you might want a family some day". I've heard of women being told that despite making it clear to their doctors that they were lesbians. I was told it myself, both before and after having had an unwanted pregnancy.

Female reproductive biology is desperate and tenacious. Nothing is a given. A woman isn't always in a position to say no to a determined man who wants to take advantage. Even having your tubes tied isn't a total sterilisation (I knew a young woman personally who had TWO babies after a tubal ligation). Even women with total hysterectomies have become pregnant (although naturally their pregnancies were medical emergencies and could not come to term).

Emme

Speedwell wrote: »

My first husband had a vasectomy when we were in our mid-20s because we had made the choice not to have children and a doctor told me I had hormonal issues that made me a poor candidate for hormonal birth control, and it was back when the IUD was still considered dangerous. Several years after our divorce, he remarried his old high school sweetheart (charming girl really) and because he was a good guy despite his weaknesses didn't give me hell about his vasectomy. I don't know what he did about it, if anything. I don't want to stop younger guys from having one if they think they really want one, either. But it really is a have-cake-or-eat-it sort of thing. And most women, even those who have never had kids, are now considered candidates for an IUD.

Why should he have given you hell about the vasectomy? You didn't make him have it. It was put out there as the best option at the time but if he didn't want it there are other methods of birth control such as diaphragms, condoms etc. Not ideal but if he didn't want a vasectomy you could have used those.

It works both ways. If a woman in her childbearing years marries a man who doesn't want children but divorces in her late 30s/early 40s she is unlikely to have children with a new partner even if she wants to. Indeed, her chances of meeting a new partner would be compromised by her age because men in their 40s and 50s can father children if they want them. So a woman in her late 30s/early 40s would more than likely be limited to dating men who don't want children even if she wants to give it one last shot.

Dr Crayfish

Emme wrote: »

Technically a man can decide to have children in his 50s if he meets a suitable partner even though he may not be as energetic as he was in his 20s or 30s.

Well there's no decision involved really if he has to rely on luck/fate/whatever to meet a woman to have kids with. I could say "Right I'm definitely having kids" today and it may never happen as for all I know as a single man I may never have sex again!

Whereas, correct me if I'm wrong, women nowadays can decide to have a child on their own if they wish via sperm banks etc, no?

ancapailldorcha

eviltwin wrote: »

If it was as cheap and easy for me to get my tubes done as it is for a man to get the snip I'd have done it years ago. My family is complete and I want to use contraception long term. Its fine and dandy my husband having a vasectomy but for me I need to know that I can't get pregnant, not that he can't get me pregnant if that makes sense.

I think there's a bit of a stigma attached to it. Even if I was 100% sure, I'd still be very reluctant to have it done.

eviltwin

Male fertility drops with age too and quality of sperm isn't the same as you age.

Yes men can technically still have children well into their 50's and beyond but what man really wants to start being a parent at that age? Its unfair to any potential child to have someone of grandfather age being their dad.

ancapailldorcha

eviltwin wrote: »

Male fertility drops with age too and quality of sperm isn't the same as you age.

Yes men can technically still have children well into their 50's and beyond but what man really wants to start being a parent at that age? Its unfair to any potential child to have someone of grandfather age being their dad.

I started a thread here once about quality of sperm decline and Wibbs cited a few pieces which seemed to disprove that claim. Regardless, a man in his 50s will struggle to attract a fertile woman I would think, especially given that she'll likely have to do more than her fair share.

Emme

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think there's a bit of a stigma attached to it. Even if I was 100% sure, I'd still be very reluctant to have it done.

Then how can you say you're 100% sure? Women have been known to take advantage of men when they're drunk and get pregnant.

eviltwin wrote: »

Male fertility drops with age too and quality of sperm isn't the same as you age.

Yes men can technically still have children well into their 50's and beyond but what man really wants to start being a parent at that age? Its unfair to any potential child to have someone of grandfather age being their dad.

This didn't bother Rolling Stone Ron Wood

LegacyUser

The thing of "sure men can decide any time, no bio-clock" really gets to me. Sure, it is technically possible for a guy to father a child into his 50s and potentially beyond. But people seem oblivious to the FACT that the quality of a mans sperm gradually declines from about age 35-40 meaning that a guy in his late 40s or 50s is more likely to have a baby with health issues than a fella in his early 30s.

As an example I remember reading somewhere that researchers found that down's syndrome babies were more likely to be born to a couple where the woman was, say, over 35 AND the man as older than her still, say in his 40s, whereas they found much less incidence of DS in babies of couples where the woman was >35 but the man was younger than her.
I think their conclusion was that the genetic defect causing DS originates in defective sperm produced as a man ages but it is thought that a younger womans body is more effective at "filtering out" embryos that are so affected as compared to an older woman's whose body may be more inclined to allow them to develop.

Then add in the reality of what young woman in her late 20s early 30s is going to want to partner up with a late 40s guy, especially when you consider that the majority of Irish men 40+ are overweight which has an hugely detrimental effect on a man's fertility.

I am just 30, but I am already starting to worry.

ancapailldorcha

Emme wrote: »

Then how can you say you're 100% sure? Women have been known to take advantage of men when they're drunk and get pregnant.

I didn't. I was speaking hypothetically. There are reasons to get it done, no question. However, I'd still be reluctant.

eviltwin

Emme wrote: »

Then how can you say you're 100% sure? Women have been known to take advantage of men when they're drunk and get pregnant.



This didn't bother Rolling Stone Ron Wood

I think its disgusting and really unfair on his children. I often think about what it would be like to have a child as an older person, through adoption or fostering for example, and I just can't rationalise it. Its a young person's game. Its hard enough running around after a child when you are in your 30's, imagine having to do that in your 50's or beyond. Madness.

ancapailldorcha

eviltwin wrote: »

I think its disgusting and really unfair on his children. I often think about what it would be like to have a child as an older person, through adoption or fostering for example, and I just can't rationalise it. Its a young person's game. Its hard enough running around after a child when you are in your 30's, imagine having to do that in your 50's or beyond. Madness.

I knew a woman in Manchester who was form this sort of situation. Her father was Welsh but her mother was from Nigeria and she alluded to it being a typical "rich older man meets young poor woman" scenario. She was quite unstable and had anger issues and it was thought that this was the reason why.

Dr Crayfish

eviltwin wrote: »

I think its disgusting and really unfair on his children. I often think about what it would be like to have a child as an older person, through adoption or fostering for example, and I just can't rationalise it. Its a young person's game. Its hard enough running around after a child when you are in your 30's, imagine having to do that in your 50's or beyond. Madness.

The worst was Elton John buying a baby from Russia in his 60s and being plastered all over Hello magazine etc as some kind of triumphant parent. Makes me sick.

Emme

eviltwin wrote: »

I think its disgusting and really unfair on his children. I often think about what it would be like to have a child as an older person, through adoption or fostering for example, and I just can't rationalise it. Its a young person's game. Its hard enough running around after a child when you are in your 30's, imagine having to do that in your 50's or beyond. Madness.

Some men in their 50s are fitter than men in their 30s but it's the exception. I can think of nothing worse than having Ron Wood for a father! :eek: If he wasn't a Rolling Stone that child wouldn't have been born.

catbear

Was engaged at 30 but broke up over various reasons but i discovered afterwards she just didn't share my desire to travel. She was ready to spawn but I was oblivious to the signals.

Anyway met another lady with a mutual love of travel, got married and set off to see the world. In our 40s and even though we thought about sprogging it was only because the opportunity was passing.

We feel pretty content if it doesn't happen, we discuss it openly, even talk with good friends who are parents too for perspective.

Occasionally we both get a strong revulsion to the idea, I saw an old colleague in his late mid 50s become a new dad, he looked like he's aged a decade in two years.

Plus I saw my ex fiancé and met her kids and felt extreme relief that I'd dodged that bullet.

We're moving abroad again for a few years and are happy with that.

Wibbs

wants_em wrote: »

I am just 30, but I am already starting to worry.

If you're male and worrying at 30, you really shouldn't be. You've at least a decade in play.

eviltwin wrote: »

Its hard enough running around after a child when you are in your 30's, imagine having to do that in your 50's or beyond. Madness.

I dunno. Depends on the people involved. Then again I may be coming from a different angle. Men in my family and pretty much on both sides tend to have kids later than average, even into their late 50's. My own dad was 50 when I came along. As a kid I didn't notice it at all. It certainly never occurred to me that he was a generation ahead of my peer's fathers. Indeed on school sports days he won a stack of medals in the father and sons races. Then again my lot would be outliers as even though they tend to marry later and have younger wives there's only one widow in the wider family. They live long, though with my previous excesses I will most likely buck that trend. On the other hand I know a family where it's all widows and the men on one line rarely make it much beyond 60, regardless of whether they're vegan marathon runners or 40 fags a day with whiskey chaser types. Men and women age at quite variable rates. I noticed more as I racked up the years myself. Some go off the boil as young as 30(or in some case younger), others are grand at 60. Not just physically either, I've found the mental and emotional ageing is even more variable. I've known 20 year olds who were little old men in thought and deed, just their chronological age had yet to keep pace.

Still I would advise guys that if they want to have kids and all that do it before 40.

challengemaster

eviltwin wrote: »

Male fertility drops with age too and quality of sperm isn't the same as you age.

Yes men can technically still have children well into their 50's and beyond but what man really wants to start being a parent at that age? Its unfair to any potential child to have someone of grandfather age being their dad.

What's unfair about it exactly? I'd just like to know so I can re-evaluate my childhood and chastise my father for no good reason :pac:

Same as Wibbs, my dad was 50 when he had me. Didn't notice it either.

Dial Hard

catbear wrote:

We're moving abroad again for a few years and are happy with that.

I think given the tone and language used in your post, not having kids is probably a wise decision alright.

eviltwin

challengemaster wrote: »

What's unfair about it exactly? I'd just like to know so I can re-evaluate my childhood and chastise my father for no good reason :pac:

Same as Wibbs, my dad was 50 when he had me. Didn't notice it either.

I had older parents, it's not easy having a man and dad the same age as your peers grandparents. It's not nice buying them when you're still young or not having them around to see you marry or have kids. Physically it's harder becoming a parent at 50 than it is at 30. There are exceptions but I felt I missed out a lot and its the main reason I had my kids by my early thirties and I'm glad I get to be around for so much of their lives.

DivingDuck

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

The worst was Elton John buying a baby from Russia in his 60s and being plastered all over Hello magazine etc as some kind of triumphant parent. Makes me sick.

Probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I mind it far less when ultra wealthy celebrities do it. The realities of life are different for normal people, and we need to make our choices accordingly.

Elton John's kids are never going to have to choose between going to college and staying home to help one frail, elderly parent who can't manage taking care of a more frail, more elderly parent.

This was the reality for two people I knew in my youth, and while neither of them were resentful or unpleasant about it, the rest of us were glad we didn't have to make that decision.

catbear

Dial Hard wrote: »

I think given the tone and language used in your post, not having kids is probably a wise decision alright.

Yeah, if we had really wanted to be parents we would have tried in the last ten years. I'd hate to bring a kid into this world just cause I can.

My mum struggled raising a clatter of us and she often said that if birth control had been easy to get, myself and a few of my siblings wouldn't have been born.

H3llR4iser

catbear wrote: »

Occasionally we both get a strong revulsion to the idea, I saw an old colleague in his late mid 50s become a new dad, he looked like he's aged a decade in two years.

That's something some friends of mine observed as well. We have yearly class reunions, and the last time a few of them remarked how a small group of us somehow looks 10 years younger than all the others. It is the 4 of us (3 guys, one lady) who are still single and without kids...may be just a curious random happening, yet one wonders...

Eugene Norman

H3llR4iser wrote: »

That's something some friends of mine observed as well. We have yearly class reunions, and the last time a few of them remarked how a small group of us somehow looks 10 years younger than all the others. It is the 4 of us (3 guys, one lady) who are still single and without kids...may be just a curious random happening, yet one wonders...

I think this is true.

Eugene Norman

What people miss here is that even if the age of the parent having the first kid is older than the historical norm the age of the last kid is not.

R P McMurphy

H3llR4iser wrote: »

That's something some friends of mine observed as well. We have yearly class reunions, and the last time a few of them remarked how a small group of us somehow looks 10 years younger than all the others. It is the 4 of us (3 guys, one lady) who are still single and without kids...may be just a curious random happening, yet one wonders...

Probably some truth to it ... it is the sleep

Pat Mustard

Emme wrote: »

Here's a question for all the men who definitely don't want children - would you be willing to have a vasectomy? If not why not?

There is a difference between lack of interest in having children and being dead set against having them.

One guy couldn't be bothered with children, the other definitely does not want children, ever.

Although both categories may up having no children in the end, the category of people who definitely don't want children is uncommon, in my opinion.