Modern day libertines

poa

A libertine is one devoid of most moral or sexual restraints, which are seen as unnecessary or undesirable, especially one who ignores or even spurns accepted morals and forms of behaviour sanctified by the larger society.[1][2] Libertinism is described as extreme form of hedonism.[3] Libertines put value on physical pleasures, meaning those experienced through the senses. As a philosophy, libertinism gained new-found adherents in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, particularly in France and Great Britain. Notable among these were John Wilmot, 2nd Earl of Rochester, and the Marquis de Sade.

I consider myself a modern day libertine. Do you know any modern day libertines? Or do you consider yourself to be one?

I think Brendan Behan, George Best, Oliver Reed, Keith Moon, Shane McGowan; could all be considered libertines, at least with their drinking and wild behaviour.

And before someone makes the lame comment; Pete Doherty etc, there I have done it for you.

hatrickpatrick

I would definitely consider myself one. Not that I actually behave in ways society would generally find unacceptable, I just find pretty much any social and cultural taboos involving consenting adults to be entirely outdated and ridiculous.

The_Valeyard

Why do people keep inventing new titles for themselves?

dinorebel

Would love to be a Libertine but my wife wont let me.

poa

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I would definitely consider myself one. Not that I actually behave in ways society would generally find unacceptable, I just find pretty much any social and cultural taboos involving consenting adults to be entirely outdated and ridiculous.

Very interesting. I think many may share your view. In my experience the more one is repressed or controlled by religion or morals etc; the more one craves hedonism.
For example, I have had relationships with very controlled and clean cut women. Outwardly they are respectable, law abiding, pillars of the local community types. Good professions, from respectable, well connected families.
But the more straight they were on the outside, the more wild they were when they let their hair down behind closed doors. Sex, drugs, drink, nothing was taboo or off-limits with them in privacy. The more respectable, the more wild.
Some of the hedonism was surreal, and one could easily lose one's mind after if not strong enough to make the transition back to normality after.
I have always craved sensory pleasures, and I now realise that others that share that often have a connection when we meet.
Libertines tend to gravitate towards other libertines, by accident or design we end up together at times.
I wonder is it a case of nature or nurture though? Our we genetically predisposed to be hedonistic? Or is that a learned process.
Although I have mellowed a little with age at 39, I had 20 years of hedonism.
The desire is always there though.

kneemos

Can't imagine there's much real pleasure in being an alcoholic.

The Backwards Man

Just looked it up in my Backwards Man's Common Sense Dictionary.

Libertine; noun, French

Fancy moniker for a drunken womanising knob

HensVassal

Probably Charlie Sheen but to be honest I'd say most people are.

Most people, given the opportunity, would engage in overindulgent behaviour. People go to places like Ibiza where they can escape society's norms and they can have multiple sex partners and all manner of other overindulgences. Nobody goes there to learn spanish.

poa

dinorebel wrote: »

Would love to be a Libertine but my wife wont let me.

Madonna — 'Poor is the man whose pleasure depends on the permission of another.'

kunst nugget

I can't say the lifestyles of any of the people you mentioned are what I would admire or aspire to. I had my fun in my twenties with partying but I left it behind, apart from the occasional bit of weed. People I knew that kept the whole lifestyle going are now running into problems with health and addiction and frankly, it's a miserable way to end up. I had a couple of pints last night and I feel ropey. The thoughts of constantly drinking and all day benders, like I did when I was younger, is horrific to me now. Alcoholism or drug addiction is just an absolutely awful existence.

Tabnabs

poa wrote: »

Madonna — 'Poor is the man whose pleasure depends on the permission of another.'

AKA rape...

poa

HensVassal wrote: »

Probably Charlie Sheen but to be honest I'd say most people are.

Most people, given the opportunity, would engage in overindulgent behaviour. People go to places like Ibiza where they can escape society's norms and they can have multiple sex partners and all manner of other overindulgences. Nobody goes there to learn spanish.

Agreed, yes he is a good example I hadn't considered. I think Freddie Mercury was one too. He certainly enjoyed excess and hedonism. I wouldn't regard Club 18-30 type 2 week binges annually to be a libertine lifestyle though. We have all done the Magaluf/Tenerife/Aya Nappa/San Antonio thing in our youth.
2 weeks of promiscuous sex, drinking, and drugs; is you just like going to Amsterdam and smoking weed.
Being a libertine is a full time life choice, not something represented by a holiday from normality.

The King of Moo

Man, I don't let society tell me what to do, with its rules!

If I wanna go drinking cans of Scrumpy Jack with teenagers down by the railway tracks, I will! I forge my own path, not like the rest of the sheep with their semi-detached houses and cars and jobs!

osarusan

The King of Moo wrote: »

Man, I don't let society tell me what to do, with its rules!

If I wanna go drinking cans of Scrumpy Jack with teenagers down by the railway tracks, I will! I forge my own path, not like the rest of the sheep with their semi-detached houses and cars and jobs!

Can I still be a priest?

poa

kunst nugget wrote: »

I can't say the lifestyles of any of the people you mentioned are what I would admire or aspire to. I had my fun in my twenties with partying but I left it behind, apart from the occasional bit of weed. People I knew that kept the whole lifestyle going are now running into problems with health and addiction and frankly, it's a miserable way to end up. I had a couple of pints last night and I feel ropey. The thoughts of constantly drinking and all day benders, like I did when I was younger, is horrific to me now. Alcoholism or drug addiction is just an absolutely awful existence.

Agreed, I wouldn't fancy being an alcoholic or drug addict either. But libertines can find sensory pleasure in other ways. It could be through any of the sense; not just sexual pleasure etc. Smell, touch, sound, taste; etc.
Pleasure from the leather seats in one's car, the scent of a lover's perfume, the taste of chocolate, favourite music.
Its rather like the pleasure from ones sense being magnified, in a way that others cannot experience to the same degree of sensory pleasure.
This is what makes me consider is it a genetic trait like perfect pitch?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I thought a libertine was a very small orange...?

kneemos

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I thought a libertine was a very small orange...?

A Manderine you're thinking of.

HensVassal

poa wrote: »

Madonna — 'Poor is the man whose pleasure depends on the permission of another.'

That's rich coming from that narcissistic cnut who prohibited Guy Ritchie the simple pleasure of a pint and a pie once in a while.

riffmongous

Seems most of them are just guys who can't handle the drink

Surely to be a pure libertine one should be self sufficient no?
As in, relying on the state for money kind of takes away from being truely free.

I'm not knocking your lifestyle, not a bit, but you're not a true free spirit as such when you have to queue up in the post office & sign your name for a few Bob?

smash

kneemos wrote: »

A Manderine you're thinking of.

Smaller. Think, Kumquat!

The Backwards Man

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I thought a libertine was a very small orange...?

That's a clementine you're thinking of.

They don't post threads on boards, which is a pity.

poa

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Why do people keep inventing new titles for themselves?

Sometimes it is a cathartic process. Leaving one's old identity/life behind and starting a new one. We live in a world where one is labelled anyway, whether one likes it or not. So choosing or inventing a title for oneself is often preferable than leaving that to someone else.

SEPT 23 1989

The marvel of medical science that is Keith Richards

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kneemos wrote: »

A Manderine you're thinking of.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

That's a clementine you're thinking of.

They don't post threads on boards, which is a pity.

Manderin, tangerine, clemintine, libertine, nectartine...

smash wrote: »

Smaller. Think, Kumquat!

Ok, now you're just being silly.

poa

HensVassal wrote: »

That's rich coming from that narcissistic cnut who prohibited Guy Ritchie the simple pleasure of a pint and a pie once in a while.

Worse still, I think she made him get circumcised for her Kabbalah beliefs.

kneemos

The Backwards Man wrote: »

That's a clementine you're thinking of.

They don't post threads on boards, which is a pity.

What's his name wrote a song about them.

Oh my darling Clemintine.

poa

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The marvel of medical science that is Keith Richards

Now that is an excellent example. He certainly has lived a hedonistic life.
Sex, drugs, drink, excess. Moral constraints? None.
I suppose Howard Marks could be considered one; definitely an eccentric that lived a life less ordinary.

The Backwards Man

kneemos wrote: »

What's his name wrote a song about them.

Oh my darling Clemintine.

Henry Fonda

HensVassal

poa wrote: »

Agreed, yes he is a good example I hadn't considered. I think Freddie Mercury was one too. He certainly enjoyed excess and hedonism. I wouldn't regard Club 18-30 type 2 week binges annually to be a libertine lifestyle though. We have all done the Magaluf/Tenerife/Aya Nappa/San Antonio thing in our youth.
2 weeks of promiscuous sex, drinking, and drugs; is you just like going to Amsterdam and smoking weed.
Being a libertine is a full time life choice, not something represented by a holiday from normality.

What I was alluding to was that most people would live this lifestyle if they could. It costs money to lounge around all day ****ing everything in range and eating and drinking like a Roman senator. Most people have to get back to work but if money was no object and there were no responsibilities then this is how a sizeable proprtion would live their lives. But the novelty would likely wear off. People whether they know it or not need a sense of purpose so unless they are engaging with multiple partners in a harem to spawn scores of children that they will then raise the instant gratification of orgy sex soon gets old.

Ush1

bubblypop wrote: »

Surely to be a pure libertine one should be self sufficient no?
As in, relying on the state for money kind of takes away from being truely free.

I'm not knocking your lifestyle, not a bit, but you're not a true free spirit as such when you have to queue up in the post office & sign your name for a few Bob?

Funny how these "sockin it to the man" types still always suckle on the teats of "the man".

maudgonner

kneemos wrote: »

What's his name wrote a song about them.

Oh my darling Clemintine.

Huckleberry Hound?

endacl

I'm more of a Ovaltine. I wouldn't have the energy for the shenanigans required to be a Libertine.

poa

HensVassal wrote: »

What I was alluding to was that most people would live this lifestyle if they could. It costs money to lounge around all day ****ing everything in range and eating and drinking like a Roman senator. Most people have to get back to work but if money was no object and there were no responsibilities then this is how a sizeable proprtion would live their lives. But the novelty would likely wear off. People whether they know it or not need a sense of purpose so unless they are engaging with multiple partners in a harem to spawn scores of children that they will then raise the instant gratification of orgy sex soon gets old.

Insightful thought, and I agree. Say one could live 24/7 as a libertine with excess and sensory pleasure; it would be too much of a good thing. Everything is good in moderation; but too much opium/sex/drink etc isn't as we all know.
Maybe that is the problem with libertinism, it comes at a heavy price to one's health. John Wilmot's sexual health killed him in the end, a direct consequence of his lifestyle. I suppose it was true of Freddy Mercury too, although Charlie Sheen will probably live longer due to advances in medicine.
Also without control and purpose in life, I suppose it's hard to measure the time off as pleasure. I mean say one had that pleasure every day, it would soon become boring. The dopamine receptors in one's brain would be over stimulated.
One would need more extreme hedonism each time to get the same fix of pleasure.
The ones I can think of, all had health problems as a result of it. Keith Richards does seem to be the only one that has defied medical science though.

poa

bubblypop wrote: »

Surely to be a pure libertine one should be self sufficient no?
As in, relying on the state for money kind of takes away from being truely free.

I'm not knocking your lifestyle, not a bit, but you're not a true free spirit as such when you have to queue up in the post office & sign your name for a few Bob?

Agreed.

poa

endacl wrote: »

I'm more of a Ovaltine. I wouldn't have the energy for the shenanigans required to be a Libertine.

Ovaltine is dangerous stuff.
It's like liquid diazepam.
I certainly wouldn't risk driving or operating heavy machinery after it.

poa

Ush1 wrote: »

Funny how these "sockin it to the man" types still always suckle on the teats of "the man".

Speaking of which, I must go and collect my dole.
I actually forgot to on Wednesday. I have lost track of the days.
There is no milk more nourishing than the milk of human kindness.

poa

endacl wrote: »

I'm more of a Ovaltine. I wouldn't have the energy for the shenanigans required to be a Libertine.

When one moves from Ovaltine to Horlick's one is on the slippery slope for sure. Horlick's is PTSD sufferer strength.

brevity

Great thread!

Ush1

poa wrote: »

Speaking of which, I must go and collect my dole.
I actually forgot to on Wednesday. I have lost track of the days.
There is no milk more nourishing than the milk of human kindness.

Keep living that wild, implusive lifestyle.....oh but don't forget to lie to them and tell them you're searching for work, otherwise you'll be cut off.

StewartGriffin

poa wrote: »

A libertine is one devoid of most moral or sexual restraints, which are seen as unnecessary or undesirable, especially one who ignores or even spurns accepted morals and forms of behaviour sanctified by the larger society.[1][2] Libertinism is described as extreme form of hedonism.[3] I think Brendan Behan, George Best, Oliver Reed, Keith Moon, Shane McGowan; could all be considered libertines, at least with their drinking and wild behavior.

Think you're confusing Libertine with Alcoholic there, op, poa.

Also, you ignore the more unpalatable ambassadors of your chosen faith, such as Fred West, Charlie Manson, and Ian Brady.

Wibbs

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The marvel of medical science shameless marketing and promotion that is Keith Richards

FYP. But for a brief and daft and oh so predictable foray into heroin in the 70's he was and is a pure lightweight of the type. He's certainly not the most libidinous of the band, that's for sure. It's all just part of their well honed image and has been that way from the start. They were the "bad boys" the "anti Beatles", the latter often secretly(at the time) living up to the Stones reputation as the Stones pretended to.

Shenshen

Within the limits of "do no harm", yes.
But I tend to evaluate the things I enjoy and not necessarily do things the general public deems "enjoyable if you can get away with it" - I tried a few drugs, but didn't like it. I like a beer or a glass of wine, but always hated the feeling of being drunk. I don't enjoy eating meat, I don't enjoy dancing and really hate nightclubs.

That said, I do enjoy sex - the more the better. I'm in an open relationship, and my husband thankfully not only isn't jealous, but happy to watch or join in.
I also seriously enjoy food. Tasting a good dish is quite literally the next best thing to an orgasm to me.
So yes, I tend to overdo both, while maybe some restraint might be advisable.

But overall, I don't enjoy causing harm, so I will behave morally towards fellow humans and animals.

K-9

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Why do people keep inventing new titles for themselves?

I think the French invented it.

It's related to Brexit.

lawlolawl

poa wrote: »

Agreed, I wouldn't fancy being an alcoholic or drug addict either. But libertines can find sensory pleasure in other ways. It could be through any of the sense; not just sexual pleasure etc. Smell, touch, sound, taste; etc.
Pleasure from the leather seats in one's car, the scent of a lover's perfume, the taste of chocolate, favourite music.
Its rather like the pleasure from ones sense being magnified, in a way that others cannot experience to the same degree of sensory pleasure.
This is what makes me consider is it a genetic trait like perfect pitch?

So, to be a libertine you have to enjoy things that give you pleasure?

What a revolutionary way of living your life!

Knew a few. Good craic to go out with, push the envelope, queues of women calling around, recreational drugs men. While I enjoyed the nights out with them, the wild parties and so on, had a wife to toddle home to myself...even if sometimes that was the following day. Ultimately, they all settled down or just ended up as lonely middle aged men, hanging on in clubs and pubs with youngsters laughing at them and the desperation, trying to cling to the image and watching as each friend bailed from the hedonism. I know, cos I myself clung on far too long until a baby came along when I was 40. I look back now and wonder why I bothered for the last few years, all my close friends had gone and I was drinking and partying with people I had no real ties with beyond the party circuit. I now regret putting my wife through that.

We keep saying we'll meet up and relive the fun now...but we all know that it won't be the same, and we'll just end up feeling a little sorry for the guys who never settled down.

Junkyard Tom

I can appear hostile and have a tough outer shell but inside I'm a softie and can be quite sweet.

I'm a langoustine.

PucaMama

I didn't realise that all libertines were unemployed. Is this an unwritten rule?

Zillah

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Backwards Man's Common Sense Dictionary.

Apparently this isn't a thing and I really think it should be.

maudgonner

Zillah wrote: »

Apparently this isn't a thing and I really think it should be.

I have a feeling the 'T' section would dwarf the rest of the A-Z.

The Backwards Man

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Just looked it up in my Backwards Man's Common Sense Dictionary.

Libertine; noun, French

Fancy moniker for a drunken womanising knob

Is this available in hardback?