Spouse of EU citizen working per job in Ireland?

Dexter55

Hi all, I'm new here so sorry if I am making any faux pas' on the forum, feel free to redirect/shout me out if I am. Anyhow I am a Canadian citizen, married to a Spanish citizen. My wife and I work as wedding photographers and we wish to do work in Ireland. Right now we reside in Canada but are planning on moving to Spain in a few months. I have been trying to get a clear answer on this point for ages but just keep getting conflicting info. Does my wife have the right to come to work in Ireland on a temporary basis? By this I mean we would be coming in for like 4 days to a week per job, photograph a wedding, then leave. From what I understand EU nationals are allowed to work in other EU countries but is this only the case if they are planning to live there as well? I have read some info about people who commute between countries for work, like living in Germany and working in Italy, and that seems totally fine. My next question is, if my wife is in fact allowed to work in Ireland on a temporary basis, am I allowed to as well? Do I need to get some sort of permit? Everything I have read seems to indicate that getting a permit is a long and drawn out process and it just wouldn't make sense in my case. I've come into Ireland a few times just in transit and they seem to give me a different stamp every time. It's either the number 3 stamp "permitted to stay 90 days, not permitted to work, etc." or the standard EU entry stamp with the plane symbol and just the entry date. I am so confused about this and any info or clarification on this matter would be greatly appreciated!

sKeith

As a Citizenship of the European Union your wife has the right to free movement, settlement and employment across the EU.

sKeith

Family members

When an EU national is working abroad in another EU country, family members also have the right to reside and work in that country, regardless of their nationality. Children have the right to be educated there.
http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=463

sKeith

Dont forget to declare and pay your irish taxes

Dexter55

sKeith wrote: »

Family members

When an EU national is working abroad in another EU country, family members also have the right to reside and work in that country, regardless of their nationality. Children have the right to be educated there.

Hi sKeith, thanks so much for the reply! I've read that as well on so many pages which is why I'm so confused. I really thought that it was that simple, but my confusion comes from the fact that the last time I entered Ireland I was given the stamp that says I'm not allowed to work, even though I entered with my wife and we told the passport control agent that we are married. Do you have any personal experiences with this type of issue? Was the passport control official just confused/unaware/didn't hear us about being married/possibly deliberately being obtuse? One time I entered Ireland through the all passports line on my own (my wife went through the EU passports line on her own) and the official asked me a few questions but when he asked if I was traveling with anyone and I told him my wife is an EU citizen he literally put his hands up, said "sorry Im not allowed to ask you any more questions" stamped my passport with the general entry stamp and sent me on my way. So confusing :S I'm just worried about coming to Ireland and telling the passport control that I intend to work with my wife here and they don't allow me to enter. Thanks again for any advice or clarification, I appreciate any straight answer I can get these days, haha.

Dexter55

Also, after asking this question to eutreatyrights(at)justice(dot)ie I got this response:

"A family member, accompanied by the EU citizen, may remain in the State for
up to 90 days as a visitor.

Visitors to the State are not permitted to work.

If you wish to work in the State, please contact the Department of Jobs,
Enterprise and Innovation.

You can find contact details for the Employment Permits Section on the
Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation website"

This seems to directly contradict the statement on Europa that says explicitly "When an EU national is working abroad in another EU country, family members also have the right to reside and work in that country, regardless of their nationality."

Any clues?

Mrs OBumble

sKeith wrote: »

Dont forget to declare and pay your irish taxes

I don't believe that Irish taxes apply if you are not tax-resident here.

Spanish taxes are what applies, if they live in Spain.

Stheno

Mod: Moved from work and jobs, new charter applies.

Pro Hoc Vice

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I don't believe that Irish taxes apply if you are not tax-resident here.

Spanish taxes are what applies, if they live in Spain.

In a nutshell you have identified the issue the OP will face.

The spouse as a citizen of Spain has full rights to travel and work in Ireland either full or part time. It seems the OP's wife wants to reside in Spain. Well then EU rules will not apply as the EU citizen will reside in country of origin.

The OP will need good advice on this issue as a complex issue is all the more complex by virtue of what he in effect wants which is a work permission in a state neither he nor spouse will reside in.

Dexter55

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

In a nutshell you have identified the issue the OP will face.

The spouse as a citizen of Spain has full rights to travel and work in Ireland either full or part time. It seems the OP's wife wants to reside in Spain. Well then EU rules will not apply as the EU citizen will reside in country of origin.

The OP will need good advice on this issue as a complex issue is all the more complex by virtue of what he in effect wants which is a work permission in a state neither he nor spouse will reside in.

I appreciate all the replies everyone, thank you so much for helping out, I am still working on clearing this all up, however to Pro Hoc Vice, I'm not sure that this is correct. The following is from europa(dot)eu:

"There are no EU-wide rules that say how EU nationals who live, work or spend time outside their home countries are to be taxed on their income.

However, the country where you are resident for tax purposes can usually tax your total worldwide income, earned or unearned. This includes wages, pensions, benefits, income from property or from any other sources, or capital gains from sales of property, from all countries worldwide.

Each country has its own definition of tax residence; yet:

You will usually be considered tax-resident in the country where you spend more than 6 months a year
If you spend less than 6 months a year in another EU country, you will normally remain tax-resident in your home country"

Also from europa(dot)eu:

"As an EU national you generally don't need a work permit to work anywhere in the EU.

Work permits are never required for self-employed people in the EU."

What I understand this to mean is that our tax will not be an issue as we will be "resident for tax purposes" in the country we choose to live in (likely Spain) There is even a whole section discussing cross border commuters on the Europa website. Also with the second point, we are self employed, so this is directly stating that we never need permission (a work permit) to work as a self employed person anywhere in the EU. Am I missing something on that point?

Pro Hoc Vice

Dexter55 wrote: »

I appreciate all the replies everyone, thank you so much for helping out, I am still working on clearing this all up, however to Pro Hoc Vice, I'm not sure that this is correct. The following is from europa(dot)eu:

"There are no EU-wide rules that say how EU nationals who live, work or spend time outside their home countries are to be taxed on their income.

However, the country where you are resident for tax purposes can usually tax your total worldwide income, earned or unearned. This includes wages, pensions, benefits, income from property or from any other sources, or capital gains from sales of property, from all countries worldwide.

Each country has its own definition of tax residence; yet:

You will usually be considered tax-resident in the country where you spend more than 6 months a year
If you spend less than 6 months a year in another EU country, you will normally remain tax-resident in your home country"

Also from europa(dot)eu:

"As an EU national you generally don't need a work permit to work anywhere in the EU.

Work permits are never required for self-employed people in the EU."

What I understand this to mean is that our tax will not be an issue as we will be "resident for tax purposes" in the country we choose to live in (likely Spain) There is even a whole section discussing cross border commuters on the Europa website. Also with the second point, we are self employed, so this is directly stating that we never need permission (a work permit) to work as a self employed person anywhere in the EU. Am I missing something on that point?

The issue is not tax nor where your spouse and her rights but your rights. Any of your rights in Europe flow from your spouse if she is resident in Spain then Spanish law applies. you will have a right to travel with in the union with spouse but you will not have a right to work unless each country you travel to with in the EU gives you a permission.

Speedwell

When I moved to Ireland with my Irish husband from a non-EU country (I'm an American), at the airport I was given only a visitor stamp for 90 days. Then I reported within the 90 days to the Garda station in the usual way to get my residency, GNIB card, and stamp 4. It took two appointments, the first with my husband and both our passports, and the second to get the actual card and stamp (since the card is produced and sent from Dublin and I live in the West).

I know this is not identical to the OP's situation, but it might show that the OP and spouse may need to make an appointment with the local immigration officer to get the proper stamp.

Pro Hoc Vice

Speedwell wrote: »

When I moved to Ireland with my Irish husband from a non-EU country (I'm an American), at the airport I was given only a visitor stamp for 90 days. Then I reported within the 90 days to the Garda station in the usual way to get my residency, GNIB card, and stamp 4. It took two appointments, the first with my husband and both our passports, and the second to get the actual card and stamp (since the card is produced and sent from Dublin and I live in the West).

I know this is not identical to the OP's situation, but it might show that the OP and spouse may need to make an appointment with the local immigration officer to get the proper stamp.

And there is the problem you got stamp 4 in Ireland because your husband was resident in Ireland. The OP's spouse like him will be resident in Spain, but both want to work part time in Irekand.