Driving ban finished but didn't hand in license..

j2016

Hi All,

I couldn't find an answer to this question so I've made a new thread - basically I was given a four year ban in 2011 for making a stupid decision and driving drunk, thankfully nobody was hurt and I've learned my lesson, I also haven't had a drink in 6 months

OK the problem is that I don't think I ever handed my license in after the judge imposed the ban - in any case I'm not sure if I can find the license, so I had a few questions that I would be very grateful for some help with.


- do I need to get a replacement license and then hand it to the court or what is the correct procedure? Or can I just check the status of my license with the NDLS? Would they have the information regarding my ban on their systems?

- will my license be stamped / endorsed or will that have expired? (my ban was from 2011-2015)

- on insurance applications the questions related to driving offences ask if you have had any motoring convictions or bans imposed in the last 5 years, since my conviction was more than 5 years old do I need to state it?

Thanks for you help

whomitconcerns

in short
yes, yes and yes

If you didnt hand in your licence then your ban never started afaik. Otherwise you could just never hand in your licence and get away with driving non stop. How does the judge know you havent? Same with endorsement.

You have been banned in the last 5 years. Last year was in the last 5 years so you would have to disclose..imho

Vologda69

whomitconcerns wrote: »

in short
yes, yes and yes

If you didnt hand in your licence then your ban never started afaik. Otherwise you could just never hand in your licence and get away with driving non stop. How does the judge know you havent? Same with endorsement.

You have been banned in the last 5 years. Last year was in the last 5 years so you would have to disclose..imho

Ring NDLS and they will advise you if you are in a position to replace your licence tel. 0761 087 880

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

j2016

whomitconcerns wrote: »

in short
yes, yes and yes

If you didnt hand in your licence then your ban never started afaik. Otherwise you could just never hand in your licence and get away with driving non stop. How does the judge know you havent? Same with endorsement.

You have been banned in the last 5 years. Last year was in the last 5 years so you would have to disclose..imho

The judge imposed the ban from date X to date Y.. How could my ban start from now?.. The ban was for specific dates, not for a period of five years from the license been handed in.

I see your point about last year being in the last five years but I guess it depends on the wording used - the insurance companies questions are as follows;

Any motor accidents or claims in the last 5 years?
Any motoring convictions, driving licence endorsements or fixed penalty points within the last 5 years?

j2016

Anyway, in relation to the license - does anybody have any experience of a similair situation where a license wasn't handed in? Or even experience of getting the license back after a ban?

p.s. not handing it in was a genuine oversight and I have never driven since I would never have risked another driving offence after what I did

j2016

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Ban starts even if you fail to hand in your licence. You can still be prosecuted for driving whilst disqualified even if you kept the licence.

That's what I thought & that makes sense because if you were stopped driving and produced a license that you didn't hand in then you would be driving without a license in effect (your license is invalid in this case).. are you 100% sure though because I read on another thread that your license starts only when the license is handed in which seems ridiculous

- would the NDLS be able to tell me if I just give them my details?

goz83

My brother had a 2 year ban (wasn't even his ban, but that's a long story from another thread) and the ban started without the license being handed in. The license expired with a year left on the ban. He lived in Sweden when all this took place, after someone else giving his name. 10 years pass and he returns home, applies for a license and there is a year of a ban left on the license. Crazy stuff tbh.

Regarding insurance, it would be wise to declare the ban if unsure, which you are indeed unsure of. Just because the conviction started over 5 years ago, does not mean you're in the clear. The conviction technically only ended last year, so declaring otherwise could be fraudulent and pleading ignorance is no defense. When in doubt, shout it out.

j2016

goz83 wrote: »

My brother had a 2 year ban (wasn't even his ban, but that's a long story from another thread) and the ban started without the license being handed in. The license expired with a year left on the ban. He lived in Sweden when all this took place, after someone else giving his name. 10 years pass and he returns home, applies for a license and there is a year of a ban left on the license. Crazy stuff tbh.

Regarding insurance, it would be wise to declare the ban if unsure, which you are indeed unsure of. Just because the conviction started over 5 years ago, does not mean you're in the clear. The conviction technically only ended last year, so declaring otherwise could be fraudulent and pleading ignorance is no defense. When in doubt, shout it out.

Wow man that's crazy.. I hope my license didn't expire during the ban!

I may have a job in the UK in the next few months so I'm wondering if it might just be easier to apply for a license there if I do go? I don't think an expired ban here would affect my insurance there would it? Considering my ban wouldn't have been on a UK license?

I see your point though maybe it would just be safer to declare the conviction & ban even though it was imposed over 5 years ago now

Gator88

j2016 wrote: »

Hi All,

I couldn't find an answer to this question so I've made a new thread - basically I was given a four year ban in 2011 for making a stupid decision and driving drunk, thankfully nobody was hurt and I've learned my lesson, I also haven't had a drink in 6 months

OK the problem is that I don't think I ever handed my license in after the judge imposed the ban - in any case I'm not sure if I can find the license, so I had a few questions that I would be very grateful for some help with.


- do I need to get a replacement license and then hand it to the court or what is the correct procedure? Or can I just check the status of my license with the NDLS? Would they have the information regarding my ban on their systems?

- will my license be stamped / endorsed or will that have expired? (my ban was from 2011-2015)

- on insurance applications the questions related to driving offences ask if you have had any motoring convictions or bans imposed in the last 5 years, since my conviction was more than 5 years old do I need to state it?

Thanks for you help

A friend of mine also " forgot" to hand in his license. He got a 12 months ban for drink driving in 2009 .He thought all was great with the world. Nothing on his license so he never mentioned the ban to his insurance company. His license needed renewing about 6months ago. New license came back with the endorsement on it. Now he's snookered. If he tells the insurance company now about the ban they'll know that he lied on his form for the last few years. They might refuse him insurance for lying. If he has a claim and has to send in a front and back copy of license he might not be covered. He should have told the truth from the start

b_mac2

Gator88 wrote: »

A friend of mine also " forgot" to hand in his license. He got a 12 months ban for drink driving in 2009 .He thought all was great with the world. Nothing on his license so he never mentioned the ban to his insurance company. His license needed renewing about 6months ago. New license came back with the endorsement on it. Now he's snookered. If he tells the insurance company now about the ban they'll know that he lied on his form for the last few years. They might refuse him insurance for lying. If he has a claim and has to send in a front and back copy of license he might not be covered. He should have told the truth from the start

That's lies anyway, there is no where on the new licenses to stamp endorsements.

j2016

Gator88 wrote: »

j2016 wrote: »

Hi All,

I couldn't find an answer to this question so I've made a new thread - basically I was given a four year ban in 2011 for making a stupid decision and driving drunk, thankfully nobody was hurt and I've learned my lesson, I also haven't had a drink in 6 months

OK the problem is that I don't think I ever handed my license in after the judge imposed the ban - in any case I'm not sure if I can find the license, so I had a few questions that I would be very grateful for some help with.


- do I need to get a replacement license and then hand it to the court or what is the correct procedure? Or can I just check the status of my license with the NDLS? Would they have the information regarding my ban on their systems?

- will my license be stamped / endorsed or will that have expired? (my ban was from 2011-2015)

- on insurance applications the questions related to driving offences ask if you have had any motoring convictions or bans imposed in the last 5 years, since my conviction was more than 5 years old do I need to state it?

Thanks for you help

A friend of mine also " forgot" to hand in his license. He got a 12 months ban for drink driving in 2009 .He thought all was great with the world. Nothing on his license so he never mentioned the ban to his insurance company. His license needed renewing about 6months ago. New license came back with the endorsement on it. Now he's snookered. If he tells the insurance company now about the ban they'll know that he lied on his form for the last few years. They might refuse him insurance for lying. If he has a claim and has to send in a front and back copy of license he might not be covered. He should have told the truth from the start

I did 'forget' to hand in my license - I don't want a situation like the one that happened with your friend, in any case I wouldn't lie on an insurance form wasn't that a bit silly? He must have known it would come back to bite him

I haven't sat behind the wheel of a car since early 2011, I've finished the ban and I don't want to do anything wrong or take any shortcuts that would prevent me from driving again asap

j2016

b_mac2 wrote: »

Gator88 wrote: »

A friend of mine also " forgot" to hand in his license. He got a 12 months ban for drink driving in 2009 .He thought all was great with the world. Nothing on his license so he never mentioned the ban to his insurance company. His license needed renewing about 6months ago. New license came back with the endorsement on it. Now he's snookered. If he tells the insurance company now about the ban they'll know that he lied on his form for the last few years. They might refuse him insurance for lying. If he has a claim and has to send in a front and back copy of license he might not be covered. He should have told the truth from the start

That's lies anyway, there is no where on the new licenses to stamp endorsements.

Were the new plastic card licenses being issues 6 months ago?.. good spot

- I would have thought that the licensing authority have a central record linked to the driving license number that holds any information relating to bans etc.? This is the 21st century, why should we need endorsements stamped onto license manually?
- It would be great if the insurance companies had access to the records of people they were insuring also (for a set period of time e.g. 3-5 years), it would make the question of what should be disclosed or not a moot point

j2016

I've researched the situation in the UK a little bit and from what I can gather there

- a drink driving endorsement can stay on your license for 11 years
- you can safely answer no to questions related to drink driving convictions and bans if it is more than 5 years since the date of your conviction
- your insurance premium should not be affected even if your license has an endorsement as long as your conviction was over 5 years ago

This information was pretty easy to find, it's a pity that the waters are a lot muddier here!

3DataModem

j2016 wrote: »

Hi All,

I couldn't find an answer to this question so I've made a new thread - basically I was given a four year ban in 2011 for making a stupid decision and driving drunk, thankfully nobody was hurt and I've learned my lesson, I also haven't had a drink in 6 months

OK the problem is that I don't think I ever handed my license in after the judge imposed the ban - in any case I'm not sure if I can find the license, so I had a few questions that I would be very grateful for some help with.


- do I need to get a replacement license and then hand it to the court or what is the correct procedure? Or can I just check the status of my license with the NDLS? Would they have the information regarding my ban on their systems?

- will my license be stamped / endorsed or will that have expired? (my ban was from 2011-2015)

- on insurance applications the questions related to driving offences ask if you have had any motoring convictions or bans imposed in the last 5 years, since my conviction was more than 5 years old do I need to state it?

Thanks for you help

I can only help with your third question. You can honestly answer "no" if the date of the conviction was more than five years ago. What was or was not done to your licence is irrelevant to this question.

L1011

j2016 wrote: »

Were the new plastic card licenses being issues 6 months ago?.. good spot

3+ years ago now

Gator88

b_mac2 wrote: »

That's lies anyway, there is no where on the new licenses to stamp endorsements.

Wow that's a bit harsh. Calling someone a liar is fighting words. Are you sure about that? You must have made a mistake etc are acceptable. That's lies anyway is downright rude. Go learn some manners.

I'm sat at the bar with my friend a few weeks ago when he told me this. I could have dates wrong and I never knew he had a ban. My generation came from a time when the drink driving campaign says leave it at 4 pints believe it or not. Point is my friend drove for the year and I never knew about the ban. He must have the old license then. It's taken him a few years to tell me so I doubt he made it up.
I don't lie!!!

j2016

3DataModem wrote: »

j2016 wrote: »

Hi All,

I couldn't find an answer to this question so I've made a new thread - basically I was given a four year ban in 2011 for making a stupid decision and driving drunk, thankfully nobody was hurt and I've learned my lesson, I also haven't had a drink in 6 months

OK the problem is that I don't think I ever handed my license in after the judge imposed the ban - in any case I'm not sure if I can find the license, so I had a few questions that I would be very grateful for some help with.


- do I need to get a replacement license and then hand it to the court or what is the correct procedure? Or can I just check the status of my license with the NDLS? Would they have the information regarding my ban on their systems?

- will my license be stamped / endorsed or will that have expired? (my ban was from 2011-2015)

- on insurance applications the questions related to driving offences ask if you have had any motoring convictions or bans imposed in the last 5 years, since my conviction was more than 5 years old do I need to state it?

Thanks for you help

I can only help with your third question. You can honestly answer "no" if the date of the conviction was more than five years ago. What was or was not done to your licence is irrelevant to this question.

Thanks for taking the time to answer!...

I'ts interesting though, I have noticed with UK insurers they ask 'Have you been convicted etc. in the last 5 years' and from what I can gather they cannot by law ask you about older convictions due to the Rehabiliated Offenders act (which means any conviction for which a jail sentence is not imposed are considered spent after 5 years).

AFAIK there is no such law in Ireland (I could be wrong) and I noticed that the insurance companies here vary wildly in their questions - e.g. 123 Insurance ask have you ever been convicted of a driving offence and Liberty insurance ask have you been convicted of a driving offence in the last 3 years

- Are Liberty insurance effectively saying they are not concerned with driving convictions older than 3 years or could you be denied a payout for withholding information that would affect your premium? I mean it would be great if this was all cut and dry...

I'm not a lawyer but for example if somebody who had a 4 year old conviction took out insurance with Liberty and answered no to this question, I don't see how Liberty could get out of paying a claim to that person - by only asking doubt convictions in the last 3 years they are effectively saying that they don't care about older convictions

b_mac2

Gator88 wrote: »

Wow that's a bit harsh. Calling someone a liar is fighting words. Are you sure about that? You must have made a mistake etc are acceptable. That's lies anyway is downright rude. Go learn some manners.

I'm sat at the bar with my friend a few weeks ago when he told me this. I could have dates wrong and I never knew he had a ban. My generation came from a time when the drink driving campaign says leave it at 4 pints believe it or not. Point is my friend drove for the year and I never knew about the ban. He must have the old license then. It's taken him a few years to tell me so I doubt he made it up.
I don't lie!!!

Yeah like I said, lies.

Gator88

b_mac2 wrote: »

Yeah like I said, lies.

Like I said Dragged up with no manners.
I'm proud to say My grown kids carry themselves well in this world. Shame your parents can't say the same

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Gator88

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The new laws covering criminal convictions say you must inform insurance about the conviction for 10 years. I'm not sure if this falls into the new law but thought I'd mention it

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Gator88

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

http://www.iprt.ie/spent-convictions

Up till this year & this new law you had to tell of convictions going back decades. We've never had a spent convictions law till this year. In fact it it mightn't come into law till May or else its just become law:)
I just read the update. It became law only yesterday.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Gator88

Fred Swanson wrote: »

You are missing the point.

If an insurance company only asks about convictions in the last 3/5 years there is no need to tell them about convictions older than that.

Insurance companies can and do ask have you EVER been disqualified from driving. Not in the last 5 years but ever. The new law now says you don't have to tell them about a conviction after 10 years from the end of the conviction. There never was a 5 year law in Ireland. Its 5 in the UK.
http://www.iprt.ie/spent-convictions

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Gator88

Fred Swanson wrote: »

They can ask what they like.

Some do only ask about the last 5 years. If that is all they ask it is safe to tell them nothing if it is over 5 years old.

Sorry Fred I see what you are taking about now. Yes if your insurance company says in the last 5 years then you can answer honestly no. If they ask have you ever been disqualified you need to answer yes for 10 years.

Bobthefireman

I've never been asked about the last 5 years.

I've only ever been asked 'have you EVER been convicted blah blah'.

Pro Hoc Vice

Bobthefireman wrote: »

I've never been asked about the last 5 years.

I've only ever been asked 'have you EVER been convicted blah blah'.

Yup

Aviva Insurance Ireland - Car:
Aviva Assumptions for car insurance includes: "Have not been convicted of any offences of any nature, or have any now pending"

http://www.iprt.ie/contents/2021

j2016

Yes as I said it varies - Aviva and 123 ask if you have ever been convicted of a driving offence, Liberty insurance ask if you have bee convicted of a driving offence in the last 3 years
- in the UK insurance your conviction is spent after 5 years so no companies there ask about convictions older than 5 years

Gator88

j2016 wrote: »

Yes as I said it varies - Aviva and 123 ask if you have ever been convicted of a driving offence, Liberty insurance ask if you have bee convicted of a driving offence in the last 3 years
- in the UK insurance your conviction is spent after 5 years so no companies there ask about convictions older than 5 years

Just to clarify for the opposition It's 10 years here in Ireland though. This law came into effect yesterday. Up until yesterday you had to inform of convictions going back decades.

Another thing to consider is that insurance companies have "our assumptions". These assumptions lets say for online insurance can be that you never had endorsements, convictions or bans. When you eventually sign your policy it says in the small print that you read the assumptions and they are correct. Also in the small print is that you must disclose anything that might effect their decision of granting the policy.

This all seems a little unfair to me as I bet most people sign their policy each year without knowing this. So even if they don't ask at all about a conviction if you don't tell them they can wiggle out of paying out and you can be done for no insurance.

Op there are brokers that specializes in convicted drivers. If I were you I would approach one of these and be totally honest with them. They will probably get you the best deal

Pro Hoc Vice

Gator88 wrote: »

Just to clarify for the opposition It's 10 years here in Ireland though. This law came into effect yesterday. Up until yesterday you had to inform of convictions going back decades.

Another thing to consider is that insurance companies have "our assumptions". These assumptions lets say for online insurance can be that you never had endorsements, convictions or bans. When you eventually sign your policy it says in the small print that you read the assumptions and they are correct. Also in the small print is that you must disclose anything that might effect their decision of granting the policy.

This all seems a little unfair to me as I bet most people sign their policy each year without knowing this. So even if they don't ask at all about a conviction if you don't tell them they can wiggle out of paying out and you can be done for no insurance.

Op there are brokers that specializes in convicted drivers. If I were you I would approach one of these and be totally honest with them. They will probably get you the best deal

Can you link to the law that came into effect yesterday.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

L1011

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Criminal Justice (Spent Convictions and Certain Disclosures) Act 2016. I assume it was commenced yesterday.

edit: it was - http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR16000094

Gator88 wrote: »

Just to clarify for the opposition It's 10 years here in Ireland though.

7, not 10 - and not every conviction. Multiple dangerous driving convictions for instance.

Pro Hoc Vice

L1011 wrote: »

Criminal Justice (Spent Convictions and Certain Disclosures) Act 2016. I assume it was commenced yesterday.

edit: it was - http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR16000094



7, not 10 - and not every conviction. Multiple dangerous driving convictions for instance.

Thank you for that, it snuck under the radar.

Gator88

Also the 10 years kicks in at the end of the ban, so in op case 14 years from the start of the ban. If there was a prison sentence (not op here) the 10 years start at the end of the sentence or ban.
The new law is a step in the right direction. I think everyone deserves a second chance without barriers being put in front of them.

Edit. Sorry after reading the spent conviction act again I realize I was mistaken. It is 7 years not 10. I've read it over a dozen times in the last few weeks and every time I saw 10. I must be getting old.

TeaBagMania

Did you receive any paperwork with instructions on turning over your driver s license?
Were you supposed to relinquish it to the court the same day as conviction or turn it in to your local guards or NDLS office within 24 hours, etc?