Is £200 too much for timing belt on a Panda?

boombang

I'm buying a 22k miles 2011 Panda 1.2 from a garage in the UK. I asked them to quote me for a new timing belt and they say £200 (sterling). Is that too much?

It's got a variable value timing engine and I understand you need to be a bit more observant with timing belt changes on these. I thought it might be handy to get it done before I collect it. Also, am I nuts to get it changed at such low mileage?

Where would be a decent place to get this done in Dublin if I hang on?

Thanks in advance

colm_mcm

That's a very good price IMO. I assume there's an age limit on the belt as well as mileage.
Only drawback is if it isn't done 100% you have no practical comeback as the garage is in the UK and you're not.

irish bloke

Sounds too cheap even. Il'd be worried if they did it at all for that price. And difficult to prove unless they show you the sparky new belt on the car.

I know it's sterling, but it sounds like a good labor price, not to mind the inclusion of parts. Don't know much abt the car but I assume to be correctly done it will need a tensioner(s) and a water pump as well as the belt.

It's up to you, but unless they could prove it to me I'll wait until I got home as already implied.

boombang

Thanks guys, that's a real help.

The car will be sold with a warranty. Although that's not much use if I'm in Ireland it still provides me with some comfort regarding their work. The dealer is a pretty big place (looks respectable), so I might take the chance and get it done.

Thanks again.

irish bloke

Hope it works out for you..

huey1975

The question should be is £200 to much for a 2011 panda.

shietpilot

huey1975 wrote: »

The question should be is £200 to much for a 2011 panda.

CiniO

irish bloke wrote: »

Sounds too cheap even. Il'd be worried if they did it at all for that price. And difficult to prove unless they show you the sparky new belt on the car.

I know it's sterling, but it sounds like a good labor price, not to mind the inclusion of parts. Don't know much abt the car but I assume to be correctly done it will need a tensioner(s) and a water pump as well as the belt.

It's up to you, but unless they could prove it to me I'll wait until I got home as already implied.

Why would you change water pump at 22k miles?

boombang

huey1975 wrote: »

The question should be is £200 to much for a 2011 panda.

Don't worry, I'm not sensitive about the car, I'm just very grateful for any advice.

I won't tell you what I actually paid for the car; you'll have nightmares.

9935452

CiniO wrote: »

Why would you change water pump at 22k miles?

Why wouldnt you?
On a low mileage car like this 22k miles in 5/6 years the car might have been idle for months at a time. This wouldnt be good for the bearings in the water pump. moisture can get in and wouldnt get a chance to dry out .
Worst case scenario , water pump seizes due to being idle,
The water pump is driven off the toothed side of the timing belts in the panda and would strip the teeth off the timing belt or snap it resulting in a lot of damage , All for not changing a 15 pound water pump.

CiniO

9935452 wrote: »

Why wouldnt you?
On a low mileage car like this 22k miles in 5/6 years the car might have been idle for months at a time. This wouldnt be good for the bearings in the water pump. moisture can get in and wouldnt get a chance to dry out .
Worst case scenario , water pump seizes due to being idle,
The water pump is driven off the toothed side of the timing belts in the panda and would strip the teeth off the timing belt or snap it resulting in a lot of damage , All for not changing a 15 pound water pump.

Because chances of pump failing within next 120k km and another 5 years (so until next belt change) are slim to none.

And changing water pump in this engine, probably doubles amount of labour.

irish bloke

CiniO wrote: »

Because chances of pump failing within next 120k km and another 5 years (so until next belt change) are slim to none.

And changing water pump in this engine, probably doubles amount of labour.

Can you elaborate why changing the water pump when completing a timing belt change in this car would double the labour. Is the water pump not driven by the belt or something?

CiniO

irish bloke wrote: »

Can you elaborate why changing the water pump when completing a timing belt change in this car would double the labour. Is the water pump not driven by the belt or something?

It is driven by belt.

To change a pump, you'd need to drain the coolant, take old pump out, clear the surface where pump goes and apply temperature resistant silicone sealant for the new pump. After fitting new pump you'd need to wait until silicone settles before filling up the system with new coolant. And then you'd need to bleed the coolant system which is quite a nightmare in every fiat.

Considering timing belt change on that engine is extremely simple, I risk saying that all the above with water pump, will easily add double the labour.

corks finest

No it doesn't, might aswell change it

irish bloke

CiniO wrote: »

It is driven by belt.

To change a pump, you'd need to drain the coolant, take old pump out, clear the surface where pump goes and apply temperature resistant silicone sealant for the new pump. After fitting new pump you'd need to wait until silicone settles before filling up the system with new coolant. And then you'd need to bleed the coolant system which is quite a nightmare in every fiat.

Considering timing belt change on that engine is extremely simple, I risk saying that all the above with water pump, will easily add double the labour.

I would never change a timing belt without changing the water pump, in my experience these are always the first component to fail in this system.

The work you described above is similar to almost all cars and if it took an hour it would be too much.

Bleeding most cars is a nightmare if you dont know the correct procedure for that model/type.

False economy not changing the water pump and poor practice IMO..

alta stare

Recently acquired a golf gti and the belt thermostat and waterproof were the first things done to it. Ok the car is a 01 with 98k miles but when the belt was coming off the rest had to be done also. Makes sense to do such things.

fancy pigeon

CiniO wrote: »

It is driven by belt.

To change a pump, you'd need to drain the coolant, take old pump out, clear the surface where pump goes and apply temperature resistant silicone sealant for the new pump. After fitting new pump you'd need to wait until silicone settles before filling up the system with new coolant. And then you'd need to bleed the coolant system which is quite a nightmare in every fiat.

Considering timing belt change on that engine is extremely simple, I risk saying that all the above with water pump, will easily add double the labour.

On an engine well known for it's heating issues in previous models, not to mention the coolant to be changed every 2 years anyway and pumps/gaskets can fail this isn't great advice

Fiat's are fairly handy to bleed the air out of, tell me how it's difficult It's not like a Peugeot where the coolant reservoir sits lower than the top of the highest water point of the engine bay, which is still easy enough to get around without complaining

I've seen these pumps fail early (30k in some cases) and if Fiat are still using pumps with plastic impellers I'd be changing it with the belt

It's not as long winded or as complicated as it's made out to be

9935452

CiniO wrote: »

Because chances of pump failing within next 120k km and another 5 years (so until next belt change) are slim to none.

And changing water pump in this engine, probably doubles amount of labour.

Regardless of an hours extra labour, id change the water pump as well.
Timing belts and water pumps are always changed together.


You could also argue that the timing belt only has 22k miles done and not bother changing it as the chances of it breaking in the next few years is slim to none.

I actually find it funny that you start a thread (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057589330) about how most irish dont service their cars properly and you are advocating skipping a water pump change with a timing belt , which is normally standard practise.
Personally if i was buying a car that had the timing belt changed without the water pump id say the owner was skipping parts of his servicing and walk away from it. What else did he skip

conzy

Also the reason the water pump is changed when the timing belt is changed is not just "incase the water pump fails" i.e not being able to pump water is one concern. The bigger concern is catastrophic failure of the water pump, which would write off the engine in the same manner the timing belt itself snapping would

CiniO

9935452 wrote: »

Regardless of an hours extra labour, id change the water pump as well.
Timing belts and water pumps are always changed together.

From my experience with Fiat's, it was always enough to change water pump with every second timing belt change.
I even risked not changing water pump on my fiat bravo with 3rd timing belt change (as I thought that work was too awkward) and car made it no problem until 250k km.

You could also argue that the timing belt only has 22k miles done and not bother changing it as the chances of it breaking in the next few years is slim to none.

On a 5 year old car, chances of rubber timing belt snapping are much higher than slim. Mileage has very little to do with it.
Chances on water pump failing after 22k miles, are like winning a lotto. Age doesn't change much here.

I actually find it funny that you start a thread (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057589330) about how most irish dont service their cars properly and you are advocating skipping a water pump change with a timing belt , which is normally standard practise.

AFAIR, Fiat recommends changing water pump with every second timing belt change. So I don't think it's normal practice.

Personally if i was buying a car that had the timing belt changed without the water pump id say the owner was skipping parts of his servicing and walk away from it. What else did he skip

As I said - AFAIR it's Fiat's recomendations to change water pump only every second timing belt change.
So considering pump change is doubling or even trippling amount of work needed, then hardly a point in doing so.

MarkAnthony

I was quoted €400 on a Fiat 500 so £200 seems good!

As for the Panda, great little car. Don't listen to the lads who feel the need to 'compensate'