Diesel v Hybird

steveshort

Hi all

Im considering changing my car as a new job will see me commuting about 160km per day, I currently drive a 1.4 petrol Megane and know that this long motorway commute wiil be hard on the car and my pocket fuel wise.

Would a hybird be worth considering instead of a diesel, ive always like the Prius but wonder if motorway driving is suitable to these cars .

Thanks

September1

I drive Prius III and I get typically 47 mpg on motorway with cruise control at 120kph and without cruise on German motorways at speeds around 150kph it was only 42 mpg.

Water John

I think with your commute, a good diesel would be better. The Hybrid would be at an advantage it you had short journeys.
Something like a Mazda 3 diesel, is quite efficient.

Anyone knowing my views here, I would say in a few years have an eye on electric, may be 2018/19.

What you need to consider is your combined mpg, not the motorway or city but all your driving combined seen as the average in your trip computer that you "don't" reset until you fill up again. Resetting the trip computer in the middle of a trip isn't accurate.

For a petrol automatic the Prius will beat most manual diesels once you learn how to take advantage of the hybrid system.

It's a low maintenance highly reliable car and I guarantee you would not be disappointed with it, it's one of the most reliable cars ever built and well proven. I owned a MK II 2007 for 4 years and averaged 58 mpg winter and 60-64 mpg Summer.

If you're considering changing then I'd agree with Water John and if you are in the market for a new car then 300+ km electric cars are due in just 1 year 9 months. They are leaps and bounds better than any hybrid and diesel but if I absolutely had to go back to an ICE then the Prius would be the one.

A 30 Kwh Leaf would be able to do 160 kms easily with a 10-15 min fast charge if there is one on route, if your company would install a charge point which doesn't have to be expensive then it would be perfect for 160 kms.

Water John

I think Mad, at the moment EV for him would be a stretch. I bow to you knowledge on the Prius, probably the only Hybrid that would be suitable.

If budget is a limiting factor then you'd be most likely looking at a high mileage diesel, a well maintained prius would still be an excellent car at 300,000 Kms. (with the recall work completed from a toyota garage)

One piece of advice I would give would be to have the gearbox oil changed at 160,000 kms as recommended in the priuschat.com forum. I'm glad I did mine, Toyota say it doesn't need to be changed but I'm glad I got it done.

The MK III Prius has 0 belts to change, and the gearbox is even simpler, it's got one of the simplest automatics also and most reliable ever made. so only oil and spark plugs need to be replaced and the oil and air filter of course. The MK II has 1 belt that drives the water pumps.

Coolant is due around 200,000 kms IIRC, this is absolutely not a DIY job.

I think I had just one bushing that needed replacing, which was the only suspension component in the cars 200,000 kms.

Bigus

Do the maths , and make sure you include depreciation ,
A 1.4 petrol Megane wouldn't be the most inefficient car in the world by a long stretch. Do the commute for a week or two and see exactly what your spending on fuel before you go out and spend €10,000 upfront to save 40 € on petrol, per week.

cros13

Don't discount going the pure EV route. I commute 180km daily from Portlaoise to Dublin in an i3.

aidanki

ever considered converting to lpg

celticbest

I currently have a Toyota Auris Touring Hybrid, it is great for shorter journeys but the Litres per 100km go up on long Motorway Journeys, I previously had a BMW 3 Series Touring Diesel & it was the opposite, it was great on long motorway trips but the Litres per 100km would go up on short Journeys.

For me the Auris averages 5.2 Litres per 100km & the 3 Series averaged about 6 litres per 100km that’s mixed driving most days.

BoatMad

steveshort wrote: »

Hi all

Im considering changing my car as a new job will see me commuting about 160km per day, I currently drive a 1.4 petrol Megane and know that this long motorway commute wiil be hard on the car and my pocket fuel wise.

Would a hybird be worth considering instead of a diesel, ive always like the Prius but wonder if motorway driving is suitable to these cars .

Thanks

If you could charge at work , even with a granny cable , a 30 kW leaf would be ideal , the more driving you do the better the economics of a pure EV.

In our case we have a 130 km round trip and considerable other business and leisure milage , we are combining the uses of two ICESs into one EV and currency the savings are more then financing the leaf.

thierry14

I wouldn't be buying an EV yet for that commute, it's too far for current generation EV's and relying on chargers daily would be a pain, bad enough driving for 2 or 3 hours a day, having to wait for a charger, nightmare if you care about your own down time.

Buy a cheap diesel/Prius or keep the car you have.

In 2020 tech will be there.

Seriously , with that commute and with the 300 Km electrics due in just 1 year 9 months I would wait.

I would just drive the 1.4 until then.

Pay for the fuel or pay for the car, interest + depreciation.

If I wanted to save money I would have kept the prius but I wanted a change after 4 years and the savings on petrol and maintenance are paying half the PCP repayments on the Leaf over 30,000 kms per year.

You're probably doing too much mileage for PCP so a new car is going to cost much more unless you pay it over 5 years. If you would not pay 30 odd K for a new car anyway then it's going to be at least 3-3.5 years for a 300 km range EV to become available 2nd hand.

So the solution in the meantime might be to get a 2nd hand 30 Kwh Leaf next year or the year after and get work charging.

Or today The 24 Kwh would easily cover 220 kms with work charging or 20-30 min fast charge.

BoatMad

thierry14 wrote: »

I wouldn't be buying an EV yet for that commute, it's too far for current generation EV's and relying on chargers daily would be a pain, bad enough driving for 2 or 3 hours a day, having to wait for a charger, nightmare if you care about your own down time.

Buy a cheap diesel/Prius or keep the car you have.

In 2020 tech will be there.

160 km round trip with in work charging is entirely practical , even with 10 mins FCP charging it's more then doable with the current 30 kW leaf. I regularly drive 200km round trip to Dublin, 10 mins at an FCP , ( about the time it's takes to queue for coffe anyway )

The " down time" is useful too , a break per 100 km is my typical regime these days.

Add to that that the leaf is a far better environment to be in in Dublin commuter traffic then any ICE

then add in the massive fuel savings

It's a no brainier really

BoatMad

By the way , the pcp is fine

Mileage is irelevant to a pcp unless you intend to excercise the " walk away " option with no cost.

In all other cases it's irelevant. The car is worth what the car is worth. The pcp has no impact on the trade in value of the car.

Anyway all this talk is irrelevant until the OP tells us whether he has any intention buying new.

steveshort

Thanks guys for the input;

I do like the idea of the Nissan Leaf but Id be worried about battery range, surly in winder with heating, lights wipers etc the range would decrease drastically? besides I wouldnt be buying new my budget would only be 3 to 4 k max

I think the Prius could be the way to go , I dont like modern diesel cars there too unreliable. Petrol cars I reckon are far more dependable.

How do the battery's in the Prius age? are they an idem that would need replacing ?

Some have been known to fail that are 10+ years old, but it can be repaired, usually it's just a few failed cells.And they're not expensive but it's finding someone competent enough in Ireland, you can buy a reconditioned one from the U.K and someone here on boards did just that and got a local mechanic to fit it and didn't cost a lot. Have a root around the EV section here on boards.

Some prius have clocked over 400,000 kms and some in Canada 750,000 kms.

The greatest recommendation is to change the gearbox oil at about 160,000 kms and every 100,000 kms after. Why not if it genuinely does work.

So if you get a Prius with 160,000 Kms and more the first thing to do is get that oil changed in the gearbox. Remember the electric motors are soaked in that same oil. Your toyota garage may look at you strange because it's not in the schedule.

Definitely a car I would own again if I had to go back to an ICE, try stretch to the MK III 2009+ if you can. Some MK II 2009's knocking around too.

regarding the Leaf, the 30 Kwh would do this with a 10 min fast charge on the way home and the 24 kwh would do it with probably 20-25 min top up. With work charging both cars would do it no problem.

steveshort

steveshort wrote: »

I do like the idea of the Nissan Leaf but Id be worried about battery range, surly in winder with heating, lights wipers etc the range would decrease drastically?

Wipers, DRL lights use 100W maximum together. The motor on average uses 20000W on cruise so the lights affect the range maybe 0.5km per charge. The heater uses a bit more. On a 0'C day on a long trip maybe 250..500W average once the car has heated up. So not using heat will result maybe ~5 kilometers less of range.

Lights, wipers won't use any noticeable amount of energy in an EV. The greatest impact is Wind and surface water.

The heater will use more once the temp goes below 5 Deg C after this efficiency drops the lower the temp because the heat pump can't extract as much heat from the atmosphere.

Above 5 deg C after pre heated from the mains the heater won't consume much. Pre heating not plugged into the mains would have more of an effect.

BoatMad

steveshort wrote: »

Thanks guys for the input;

I do like the idea of the Nissan Leaf but Id be worried about battery range, surly in winder with heating, lights wipers etc the range would decrease drastically? besides I wouldnt be buying new my budget would only be 3 to 4 k max

I think the Prius could be the way to go , I dont like modern diesel cars there too unreliable. Petrol cars I reckon are far more dependable.

How do the battery's in the Prius age? are they an idem that would need replacing ?

With your long commute. The Prius is just another small engined petrol car. Choose amongst many similar cars.

Small engine with a small battery and motor, don't knock it until you try it.

The motor makes a big difference to the acceleration.

BoatMad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Small engine with a small battery and motor, don't knock it until you try it.

The motor makes a big difference to the acceleration.

I have driven one on several long journeys as one of my friends has one

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Small engine with a small battery and motor, don't knock it until you try it.

The motor makes a big difference to the acceleration.

I have driven one on several long journeys as one of my friends has one

Hardly the same as owning it.

September1

Prius is much quieter, which I guess makes you less tired on long journeys.

BoatMad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hardly the same as owning it.

No. But it has given me a clear understanding of its capabilities and or lack of them

Doubt it would have anything to do with the cars abilities lol

BoatMad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Doubt it would have anything to do with the cars abilities lol

The stage mad lad the stage awaits you ........

Water John

LADS, stop picking, the OP was only asking for advice.

My take, from wha'st written, diesel or Prius now. EV in 2/3 years.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

The stage mad lad the stage awaits you ........

Well, you got "mad" in your name here too so you can join me, you can be the Clown !

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, you got "mad" in your name here too so you can join me, you can be the Clown !

You haven't heard that joke before it seems ..... Oh well , I'm sure Leonard will explain it to you , Sheldon

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

You haven't heard that joke before it seems ..... Oh well , I'm sure Leonard will explain it to you , Sheldon

I'm not as old to have heard it probably.

hexosan

Lads the two of ye need to meet up in person and get the tapes out, settle this dispute once and for all.

Fastpud

hexosan wrote: »

Lads the two of ye need to meet up in person and get the tapes out, settle this dispute once and for all.

Video could end up like Brokeback Mountain though

Sam Kade

Those hybrid SUVs are some joke if you want to save fuel get a car instead.

Patser

Sam Kade wrote: »

Those hybrid SUVs are some joke if you want to save fuel get a car instead.

Just to annoy you, and still show off; OP have you thought about getting both? A diesel hybrid? Best of neither world but better looking than a Prius.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057582908/2

BoatMad

The OP has a very restricted budget. In my view a small cheap diesel is the only answer

steveshort

Thanks for all the input guys,

Im not leaning towards the Prius more so than before. There plenty on DD and at my price range too.

stesaurus

Deedsie wrote: »

I am in a similar position, considering purchasing an EV next year, been reading up on EV's for the last while. I could be changing offices to a 160km motorway commute. 75km each way. Ideally I would only be charging at night time at my own house. I currently drive a diesel ICE but the wife will be using that.

So a second car is going to have to be bought. Would it be possible to get an EV car that I could charge at home at night able for a 160km motorway drive?

I don't think it would be viable to have to charge during the day as I'll want to be getting home asap and I doubt it would be viable if I had to regularly charge on the road.

The 33 Kwh i3 should be capable, especially if you got the REX.
Would your new office be willing to install a charger for use by you or other employees?

Water John

I think the next Leaf is due in 2018.
Other people here may know more.

Don't buy until at least 2018 that's my best advice, this is when the 300-340 Km electrics will start to appear, price is unknown yet. But it's only 1 year and 8 months away.

The 30 Kwh Leaf would do the job now but would requite a 15 min charge on the way home or over lunch if you got that time and a Fast charger close enough

Say you average 22 Kwh/100 kms on your commute, which would be driving pretty hard, then to calculate you do this.

To find out the consumption and Kwh needed you divide your kms needed, in this case 150 kms for your commute (75 kms each way) by the consumption.

150 kms divide by 100 kms = 1.5 , multiply this by 22 (22 Kwh/100kms) = 33 Kwh needed on average.

So a 40 Kwh battery would be absolutely perfect for your needs because you want a bit to spare. This would get you up and down driving motorway speeds with some to spare. (maybe 30-40 kms to spare).

Driving slower , say 100-110 kph would give you a consumption of around 17.5-18 Kwh /100 kms needing 27 Kwh which is just about in range with the 30 Kwh Leaf but this consumption could go up but you'd need maybe 10-15 mins on the way home to fast charge. I would say 10 mins this is at 100-110 kph, maybe a little more. If there is a fast charger close by this would be ideal.

At this point in time I would wait for 2018, it's possible Leaf II will have different battery options so people can choose what they want which is ideal, the perfect solution but this could effect resale value.

The GM Bolt or Opel Ampera-E is due 2017, not sure when it will be available in Europe, Opel Ireland have said they don't want anything to do with it, But I can't see this lasting long, it will have a range of 300 odd kms.

BoatMad

Deedsie wrote: »

Unfortunately no, we are clients on site so it wouldn't be an option to ask really. Are there any new EV's due for launch on the Irish Market Jan 2017 to Jan 2018. I think the i3 @ >€40000 is out of my price range unfortunately.

Unless you have in-work charging , that range is just outside current EVs. The 30 kW leaf can't provide that range safely. The i3 is typical BMW , lifestyle pricing. You'd buy a shed load of diesel for the purchase difference between a small economical diesel and a i3.

As waiting , that of course isn't an option , you need a car today.

Anyway , delaying purchases merely to access better technology, means you'd probably never buy anything , as " something better" is always around the corner

Work out what works for you, and buy that

BoatMad

Deedsie wrote: »

I really like the look of the Opel Ampera-E. Hopefully they will launch before 172 in Ireland as that is probably the earliest I will be in a position to purchase anyway.

I'll stay lurking here and reading about all of your experiences with EV's until then.

I emailed Opel enquiring if they would launch the Ampera-E here but I received the same response as other posters on this forum. No plans to launch

As I understand there is no commitment to an RHD version in general as all models are being built in the same US facility.

Delaying decisions on the forlorn hope of future , and unreliable , model predictions is just self delusion in my view. It either works today it doesn't.

For example , I dont believe we will see a 60 kW leaf in the current , or similar form factor and price bracket , there are many reasons for my view

2018 isn't far away and I seriously would indeed wait, the 60 Kwh will probably be more expensive but Nissan have hinted of multiple battery options and 40 Kwh would be a really good bet for 200 kms at 120-130 Kph.

My consumption between 120-130 kph is 21-22.5 Kwh/100 kms. Future electrics might be more efficient too.

However 160 Km commute is definitely within range of the 30 kwh with fast charging, as I said, check out the fast charger location on the ESB e-cars charge point map.

I drove 135 kms daily, charged up in Naas for 10 mins on the way home and got home with 20-30% but I did reduce my speed, about 100-110 kph max. This is in the 24 Kwh leaf.

The 30 Kwh charges faster too, so I estimate 20 mins tops for a 160 km commute getting home with some to spare.

However the only thing to do is to take a 30 Kwh for 2-3 days on your commute , this is the only way to see if this solution works or not for you, we can only give you advice based on our own opinions and experiences.

My advice is to wait until 2018, you just need a battery that meets your commute.

At 100 kph at 17 Kwh/100 kms you would need 27.2 Kwh/100 kms winter, this is a good average. So a 40 Kwh would definitely get you up and back, 60 Kwh is more battery than most of us need.

Between 120-130 kph 22.5 kwh/100kms and you need 35.5-36 Kwh Kwh for 160 kms. so 40 Kwh should get you home with about 10-15 kms to spare, however some kms of your trip surely won't be at this speed and this makes a lot of difference as you can see in my quoted figure for 100 kph.