Granular Limestone versus ordianry Aglime

patsy_mccabe

An interesting article here;

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Agronomy/Extension/ssnv/ssvl189.htm

How Fast Will Pelletized Lime React?
The speed of reaction (rate at which the lime will change the soil pH) is mainly a function of surface area of the lime particles and their contact with the soil. The finer the grind of lime, the more the surface area, and the faster the reaction. Since pelletized lime is pelleted from finely ground lime, it is easy to assume that it will be faster reacting than bulk spread ag lime which has some larger, non-reactive particles as a part of its composition. However, this is not true. Based on research from several states, it appears that the pelletized lime reacts no faster to raise the soil pH than good quality ag lime applied at recommended rates. In fact, incubation studies at Michigan State University found the pelletized lime to have a slower rate of reaction. Field research from other states indicate the rate of reaction is about equal to ag lime.


US article but relevant all the same.

Sam Kade

Does that mean gran lime is a gimmick?

390kid

Sam Kade wrote: »

Does that mean gran lime is a gimmick?

Jaysus I hope not put on a ton and a half just for the reason I believed it worked faster than ground lime

Sam Kade

390kid wrote: »

Jaysus I hope not put on a ton and a half just for the reason I believed it worked faster than ground lime

I also believed that it's higher strength and works faster, didn't some poster on here say he brought up his soil ph using gran lime over a few years?

390kid

Sam Kade wrote: »

I also believed that it's higher strength and works faster, didn't some poster on here say he brought up his soil ph using gran lime over a few years?

I'm not to sure I didn't see it but I'm sure there's something on it here. My adviser told me it was quicker and safe to use while grazing or before silage was cut

Dawggone

Sam Kade wrote: »

Does that mean gran lime is a gimmick?

Granlime is not the same as ground limestone.
Granlime is made from dehydrated lime so it works way faster but the impact on ph doesn't last as long.

patsy_mccabe

Dawggone wrote: »

Granlime is not the same as ground limestone.
Granlime is made from dehydrated lime so it works way faster but the impact on ph doesn't last as long.

Dehydrated or not, it's still made from the same stuff, only ground finer.

http://www.gouldings.ie/our-products/fertiliser/gran-lime/

mythos110

Dawggone wrote: »

Granlime is not the same as ground limestone.
Granlime is made from dehydrated lime so it works way faster but the impact on ph doesn't last as long.

There is no such thing as "dehydrated" lime.

There is a product made from burnt lime (Growmax) which is supposed to react faster than other granlimes. It is Calcium Oxide whereas other granlimes are Calcium Carbonate - same as "quarry lime" - just ground finer and pelletized using a binder material which then breaks down in moisture to release it into the soil.

Calcium oxide has a pH in of over 12 which means that it is very reactive, but care has to be taken when spreading as it can stick to and react with wet surfaces. It can be hard to wash off machinery after use but it seems to work well!

Limestone Cowboy

Sam Kade wrote: »

I also believed that it's higher strength and works faster, didn't some poster on here say he brought up his soil ph using gran lime over a few years?

Worked here Sam!

Dawggone

mythos110 wrote: »

There is no such thing as "dehydrated" lime.

There is a product made from burnt lime (Growmax) which is supposed to react faster than other granlimes. It is Calcium Oxide whereas other granlimes are Calcium Carbonate - same as "quarry lime" - just ground finer and pelletized using a binder material which then breaks down in moisture to release it into the soil.

Calcium oxide has a pH in of over 12 which means that it is very reactive, but care has to be taken when spreading as it can stick to and react with wet surfaces. It can be hard to wash off machinery after use but it seems to work well!

To dehydrate a substance you add heat and extract moisture. The resulting product, even though it is derived from ground down limestone rock, is not the same as ground limestone. Commonly known as burnt lime....or (wait for it!) dehydrated lime.


It's mad Ted...

It's not alchemy.

kowtow

Dawggone wrote:

To dehydrate a substance you add heat and extract moisture. The resulting product, even though it is derived from ground down limestone rock, is not the same as ground limestone. Commonly known as burnt lime....or (wait for it!) dehydrated lime.

Dawggone wrote:

It's mad Ted...

Dawggone wrote:

It's not alchemy.

Its the opposite of slaked lime.

Or not as the case may be.

Then of course there is hydraulic lime.

Nekarsulm

Anyone ever use lime treated creamery waste on their land?
Local creamery will soil sample, deliver and land spread it for free, but I would like to know what exactly is in it first.

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Its the opposite of slaked lime.

Or not as the case may be.

Then of course there is hydraulic lime.

Ah that's just whitewash!!

Sam Kade

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Anyone ever use lime treated creamery waste on their land?
Local creamery will soil sample, deliver and land spread it for free, but I would like to know what exactly is in it first.

Never heard of it, we used to get sludge lime from the beet factory years ago and spread it with a dung spreader.

_Brian

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Anyone ever use lime treated creamery waste on their land?
Local creamery will soil sample, deliver and land spread it for free, but I would like to know what exactly is in it first.

If it was any good Lakeland would be charging ya for it !!

White Clover

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Anyone ever use lime treated creamery waste on their land?
Local creamery will soil sample, deliver and land spread it for free, but I would like to know what exactly is in it first.

Is it waste from cheese making? That's the best of it. The smell tho.........

Sam Kade

Greengrass mentioned last year about bagged lime that is also a soil enhancer on this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94106635

His spelling is wrong so I can't search for information about it, pity he isn't around anymore to answer.

yosemitesam1

Sam Kade wrote: »

Greengrass mentioned last year about bagged lime that is also a soil enhancer on this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94106635

His spelling is wrong so I can't search for information about it, pity he isn't around anymore to answer.

was it physiolith?

Sam Kade

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

was it physiolith?

That's it, it's great stuff by all accounts but expensive.

Farrell

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's it, it's great stuff by all accounts but expensive.

It's Hard got, can just about get slag & gran lime here

cj maxx

Sorry for digging up the old thread but how much is it and what bahs does it come in ?

cj maxx

sny idea of prices for physiolith ?

50HX

anyone use slacked lime?

don't ever remember it being used but the father said twas widely used years ago

Farrell

50HX wrote: »

anyone use slacked lime?

don't ever remember it being used but the father said twas widely used years ago

Have put out some granulated slack recently alright, first time to ever use it.
Interested to see how it performs

50HX

Farrell wrote: »

Have put out some granulated slack recently alright, first time to ever use it.
Interested to see how it performs

whats the price difference to gran lime

Farrell

50HX wrote: »

whats the price difference to gran lime

Twice the price, but lasts 2-2.5 years, while Gran lime is 1 year

Originally went looking for phylosiph (mind spelling), hopefully this gives the results

Sam Kade

Could you use urea after spreading gran lime?

Grecco

Sam Kade wrote: »

Could you use urea after spreading gran lime?

Not straight away or else there will be a reaction between the urea and the lime. You could spread CAN instead, and would be better off spreading that from now on

alps

cjmc wrote: »

sny idea of prices for physiolith ?

Waste of money I reckon. ..Tried it on half the farm, doing strips with the spreader open and spreader closed and kept a map of the work done..

Absolutely no difference....ph would be good anyway, but was persuaded by a salesman as he said calcium levels were low....He knew by the worm activity by the way.

Asked him back to show me the strips that were done...They should have been outstanding..

I'm still waiting for him...

nhg

cjmc wrote: »

sny idea of prices for physiolith ?

Got a price of €269/T today

mythos110

Dawggone wrote: »

To dehydrate a substance you add heat and extract moisture. The resulting product, even though it is derived from ground down limestone rock, is not the same as ground limestone. Commonly known as burnt lime....or (wait for it!) dehydrated lime.


It's mad Ted...

It's not alchemy.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I work for the only company in Ireland who makes burnt lime. Burning lime isn't to remove moisture as you suggested, it releases CO2 as part of a chemical reaction changing Calcium carbonate (Limestone) into Calcium oxide (Burnt Lime/Quicklime). Dehydrating as you refer to as removing moisture has nothing to do with the process. Slaked or hydrated lime is then formed by mixing the burnt lime with water in another chemical reaction to make Calcium Dihydroxide.
Either which way, your typical granulated limes are made from dried and finely milled Calcium Carbonate (limestone) and not Calcium Oxide (Burnt lime). The only burnt lime product on the market that I am aware of is Growmax.

patsy_mccabe

mythos110 wrote: »

.... Either which way, your typical granulated limes are made from dried and finely milled Calcium Carbonate (limestone) and not Calcium Oxide (Burnt lime)....

So in your opinion....:D...Is the bagged stuff (Granular Limestone) worth the extra money over ordinary ground lime?

mythos110

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

So in your opinion....:D...Is the bagged stuff (Granular Limestone) worth the extra money over ordinary ground lime?

With my farmer hat on: In certain situations yes. My ground is quite steep so the lads that typically come to spread ground lime sh1t themselves when they see it. I typically get about 5 ton per acre on the level bits and 0.5 on the steep bits that actually need it!
Also the advantage of being able to target small paddocks when i want suits my system (paddocks ex dairy farm now suckling) and tbh a lot of paddock systems so its suits a lot of dairy people. I still spread both Growmax and aglime.

With my work hat on: Growmax is the best thing since sliced pan and everyone should buy a million tons every year!!! 😀

mythos110

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

So in your opinion....:D...Is the bagged stuff (Granular Limestone) worth the extra money over ordinary ground lime?

Sorry, kind of answered the wrong question there. The granular limestone is milled much finer than aglime so in theory it should have a much higher surface area to react with the soil and increase the pH and hence work quicker. Ultimately though, because the TNV is the same as aglime (95-98) it should only neutralise the same amount of acidic soil per kg as aglime. I would say it should act faster than aglime but in order to get long lasting benefits it needs to be spread more frequently.
I have got aglime in the past with grits up to 4mm. They wouldnt break down and neutralise if they were there for a hundred years so you'd have to assume that there is quite a bit of wastage with some aglime.
Burnt lime on the other hand has a TNV of about 160 so in theory it should neutralise more acidic soil per kg spread than granulated limestone.

By the way, im no expert. Just the info as i understand it. No doubt there are plenty of keyboard warriors with more educated opinions than mine!

patsy_mccabe

God article in his weeks journal explaining the difference between ground limestone (aglime), granulated lime and white/burnt lime (also known as quicklime).

Total Neutralising Value (TNV) as follows;
Standard ground limestone - CaCO3 - 35%
Granulated Limestone........ - CaCO3 - 95%
Burnt Lime...................... - CaO - 160%

pedigree 6

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

God article in his weeks journal explaining the difference between ground limestone (aglime), granulated lime and white/burnt lime (also known as quicklime).

Total Neutralising Value (TNV) as follows;
Standard ground limestone - CaCO3 - 35%
Granulated Limestone........ - CaCO3 - 95%
Burnt Lime...................... - CaO - 160%

Those lads with the lime kilns years ago knew what they were doing.

Hard Knocks

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Those lads with the lime kilns years ago knew what they were doing.

Where would you get burnt lime these days?

pedigree 6

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Where would you get burnt lime these days?

Here.

http://clogrennane.ie/

patsy_mccabe

Gromax quicklime is €180/tonne. :eek:

Hard Knocks

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Gromax quicklime is €180/tonne. :eek:

Granlime was same price last year.
Be good expense for a load from Carlow

larthehar

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Granlime was same price last year.
Be good expense for a load from Carlow

I've used granlime on disced reseeds and a noticeably better performance than ordinary lime.. granlime was 170 last yr i think.. i might try gromax on a reseed this year and see if it makes any difference... i.l report back!

Jimbo789

larthehar wrote: »

I've used granlime on disced reseeds and a noticeably better performance than ordinary lime.. granlime was 170 last yr i think.. i might try gromax on a reseed this year and see if it makes any difference... i.l report back!

Did you try the Growmax?