Flue Restrictions - Wouldn't Ferroli Service Boiler

Seanie_H

We had a gas boiler service today and when the engineer turned up, he refused to service the boiler on account of the flue positioning. He said that the regulations say that it can't be set up like that and they have been in place for 10 years or so.

Now I'm not great with anything trade related.... struggle with the easiest things but I'm just a bit surprised by this because the same setup would be across 70% of the houses in the estate. Not that it makes it right but the boiler has a good service history - all the way up to 2014 (we moved in only last year).

We have a Ferroli Tempra 18 and it has been working fine. I've attached the pictures of the set up. It seems that because the eaves are at the same height as the top of the boiler, they decided to stick in a few pipes to bring the flue downwards.

So I've two questions that I'm hoping you can help me with -

1. Are Irish gas regs retrospective? Presumably the positioning of the flue was fine when the house was built in 2001. Does everybody with a house built before those regs. were introduced need to carry out work to fix it? I'd be surprised if it did mean that.

2. Is the engineer right? I'm just surprised and don't really have anybody who would know the answer. Generally I'd just fold but it just seems wrong to me.

The boiler manual is here

Cheers

JustTheOne

That is a shocking job. I'm not surprised he walked away.

Seanie_H

Sounds like he's right then?

I should have somebody drop the boiler and take x2 two bends out of the way?

Seanie_H

Bump

anthonyos

Take a picture of the outside ...your probably better of getting a new boiler

Seanie_H

New boiler? Christ.

Fella who refused the service tested the omission outside the flue and said it was within range.

Trying to figure out how to post the pic on this rubbish new mobile boards app.

Robbie.G

Seanie_H wrote: »

New boiler? Christ.

Fella who refused the service tested the omission outside the flue and said it was within range.

Trying to figure out how to post the pic on this rubbish new mobile boards app.

I would move the boiler down solves problem
A new boiler would be required if the flue parts are no longer available

Calahonda52

What exactly is wrong with this installation?
Why was it not mentioned in the repurchase survey which i presume was done before house changed hands in 2014?
How come all the previous service records exist, are they forgeries?

If its unsafe why did he not cut off supply at the meter?

It is wrong that a guy can refuse to do the work but be allowed walk away.

The issue it seems is that if he services boiler and issue a cert, he becomes liable for all previous work.

Makes a mockery of gas regulations here but whats new!

Seanie_H

Calahonda52 wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with this installation?
Why was it not mentioned in the repurchase survey which i presume was done before house changed hands in 2014?
How come all the previous service records exist, are they forgeries?

If its unsafe why did he not cut off supply at the meter?

It is wrong that a guy can refuse to do the work but be allowed walk away.

The issue it seems is that if he services boiler and issue a cert, he becomes liable for all previous work.

Makes a mockery of gas regulations here but whats new!

Add your reply here.

The Notification of Hazard states that the 'flue is not up to standard'. He said it was "safe as far as he could tell" but he wasn't willing to put his name to it. RGI sent a letter out confirming the same during the week.

Missed in the surveyors report. Had an RGI out this evening who didn't understand what the issue was himself but said he'd look into it and get back to me.

It was a different provider doing the previous servicing and they seem to be legit. Our current provider installed a Nest last year on the boiler without any issue or concern for the flue.

Very confusing to be honest.

Seanie_H

Seanie_H wrote: »

Add your reply here.

The Notification of Hazard states that the 'flue is not up to standard'. He said it was "safe as far as he could tell" but he wasn't willing to put his name to it. RGI sent a letter out confirming the same during the week.

Missed in the surveyors report. Had an RGI out this evening who didn't understand what the issue was himself but said he'd look into it and get back to me.

It was a different provider doing the previous servicing and they seem to be legit. Our current provider installed a Nest last year on the boiler without any issue or concern for the flue.

Very confusing to be honest.

It is not fitted asper manufacturers instructions and as such may lead to flueing issues in the future, the flue installation must meet manufacturers instructions to be signed off as correct.

Some Rgis are scared to get involved due to fear of making a mistake after putting their name on a job taking full ownership of any issues.

If that were my home I wouldn't be happy with that flue arrangement.

Seanie_H

gary71 wrote:

It is not fitted asper manufacturers instructions and as such may lead to flueing issues in the future, the flue installation must meet manufacturers instructions to be signed off as correct.

I can't see where it's not per the manufacturers instructions... Just taking the fellas word for it.

Seems to be far from ideal setup from the reaction here anyways.

Seanie_H

Seanie_H wrote: »

I can't see where it's not per the manufacturers instructions... Just taking the fellas word for it.

Seems to be far from ideal setup from the reaction here anyways.

In 30 years as a gas engineer I'v not seen the like(that I remember), it's the what ifs that are concerning not what's it like today.

K.Flyer

Seanie_H wrote: »

I can't see where it's not per the manufacturers instructions... Just taking the fellas word for it.

Seems to be far from ideal setup from the reaction here anyways.

Go to page 15 of the manual you posted earlier, where the boiler manufacturer gives clear instructions on how the flue should have been installed.
Personally I have no idea how it has gotten this far without being flagged.

Seanie_H wrote: »

The boiler manual is here

Seanie_H

Table 5b shows you can add flue accessories making allowances for the impact of the angle.
x3 90 degree total 3metres + 1 metre out the wall to the end of the flue = 4 metres which is within requirements. What am I missing there?

Help me understand why you're surprised how it has gone this far.

Page 15 shows only the basic set up illustration. It's not the mandatory set up.

Sleeper12

Calahonda52 wrote:

What exactly is wrong with this installation? Why was it not mentioned in the repurchase survey which i presume was done before house changed hands in 2014? How come all the previous service records exist, are they forgeries?

Don't forget every home in priory hall was passed by survivors. Just because you pay for their services doesn't mean that the survivors catch everything

Seanie_H

Seanie_H wrote: »

Table 5b shows you can add flue accessories making allowances for the impact of the angle.
x3 90 degree total 3metres + 1 metre out the wall to the end of the flue = 4 metres which is within requirements. What am I missing there?

Help me understand why you're surprised how it has gone this far.

Page 15 shows only the basic set up illustration. It's not the mandatory set up.

Contact the manufacturers and ask them to ok your flue design, if you get a positive result you can then show that to any Rgi that calls and if you get a negative result then you know where you stand.

jsd1004

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Don't forget every home in priory hall was passed by survivors. Just because you pay for their services doesn't mean that the survivors catch everything

Got a quote for a replacement fan in a gas boiler today, RGI said that the fan was no longer available and only solution was a new boiler at 1.7 k plus vat. I know a fair bit about plumbing and electrics being a qualified real engineer so said thanks and good luck. Looked up the fan online and sourced it for 80euro. Another RGI serviced the boiler and installed the supplied fan for 150 euro including the service and said it was a great boiler and would last for years more. I can name and shame the supplier in Limerick area by PM if anyone needs it..

jsd1004

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Don't forget every home in priory hall was passed by survivors. Just because you pay for their services doesn't mean that the survivors catch everything

Got a quote for a replacement fan in a gas boiler today, RGI said that the fan was no longer available and only solution was a new boiler at 1.7 k plus vat. I know a fair bit about plumbing and electrics being a qualified real engineer so said thanks and good luck. Looked up the fan online and sourced it for 80euro. Another RGI serviced the boiler and installed the supplied fan for 150 euro including the service and said it was a great boiler and would last for years more. I can name and shame the supplier in Limerick area by PM if anyone needs it..

Dtp1979

jsd1004 wrote: »

Got a quote for a replacement fan in a gas boiler today, RGI said that the fan was no longer available and only solution was a new boiler at 1.7 k plus vat. I know a fair bit about plumbing and electrics being a qualified real engineer so said thanks and good luck. Looked up the fan online and sourced it for 80euro. Another RGI serviced the boiler and installed the supplied fan for 150 euro including the service and said it was a great boiler and would last for years more. I can name and shame the supplier in Limerick area by PM if anyone needs it..

What's the boiler?

jsd1004

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What's the boiler?

Baxi?

jsd1004

jsd1004 wrote: »

Baxi?

Ill get the exact code if necessary. I bought the fan for 80 euro, The guy said it was bog standard

jsd1004

jsd1004 wrote: »

Ill get the exact code if necessary. I bought the fan for 80 euro, The guy said it was bog standard

When RGIs overcharge and even try and scam it does not help across the board

Dtp1979

jsd1004 wrote: »

When RGIs overcharge and even try and scam it does not help across the board

Whoever told you Baxi were a great boiler is scamming you too

K.Flyer

Seanie_H wrote: »

Table 5b shows you can add flue accessories making allowances for the impact of the angle.
x3 90 degree total 3metres + 1 metre out the wall to the end of the flue = 4 metres which is within requirements. What am I missing there?

Help me understand why you're surprised how it has gone this far.

Page 15 shows only the basic set up illustration. It's not the mandatory set up.

The instructions provide clear information for horizontal and vertical placement of the flue with only a 3mm drop per linear metre of horizontal flue. There are no instructions for the installation of the flue in the manner in which yours has been fitted.
Regulations say that the appliance and flue must be fitted in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.