Using AC when DC is busy

KCross

Sorry if this is a newbie question but I was under the impression that if I came to a rapid and the DC was busy that I could use my Type2<->Type1 cable to connect my LEAF (Type 1 connector) to the AC connection which has a Type 2 connection and at least get a slow charge which waiting for the DC to free up.

It doesnt seem to work though (or at least on the rapid I tried)


Did I dream this up or did I just do something wrong?

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

Sorry if this is a newbie question but I was under the impression that if I came to a rapid and the DC was busy that I could use my Type2<->Type1 cable to connect my LEAF (Type 1 connector) to the AC connection which has a Type 2 connection and at least get a slow charge which waiting for the DC to free up.

It doesnt seem to work though (or at least on the rapid I tried)


Did I dream this up or did I just do something wrong?

Only if there is a seperate SCP at the location

The FCP can only support one single connection of any type at a time

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

Only if there is a seperate SCP at the location

The FCP can only support one single connection of any type at a time

thanks.

When you say "separate SCP" does that mean an entirely separate charge station or just one station which has a separate AC Type 2 port?

I've been to about 10 different rapids in Ireland over the last 2 weeks and I dont think I've seen a separate AC charge station at any of them. Do they actually exist?!

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

thanks.

When you say "separate SCP" does that mean an entirely separate charge station or just one station which has a separate AC Type 2 port?

I've been to about 10 different rapids in Ireland over the last 2 weeks and I dont think I've seen a separate AC charge station at any of them. Do they actually exist?!

there are several FCP coexisting with SCPs, Enfield, Luas sandy ford, Gorey Maxol to name a few.

Only the Renault Zoe can use the AC side of the fast charger at the same time a Leaf is charging.

A note to ignorant Leaf owners who have refused to allow Zoe owners charge because they got there first but have to wait.

stesaurus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Only the Renault Zoe can use the AC side of the fast charger at the same time a Leaf is charging.

A note to ignorant Leaf owners who have refused to allow Zoe owners charge because they got there first but have to wait.

Depending on the charger an i3 or E-golf can use it too. So if waiting you really shouldn't be in one of the spaces

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Only the Renault Zoe can use the AC side of the fast charger at the same time a Leaf is charging.

A note to ignorant Leaf owners who have refused to allow Zoe owners charge because they got there first but have to wait.

I was clear on it when BoatMad said
"The FCP can only support one single connection of any type at a time"

Are you contradicting that?
i.e. the FCP can charge two EV's at the same time?

peposhi

J14 on N7 also has an AC and DC (ChaDeMo only) chargers. There's rarely more than one Leaf there lately...

stesaurus

KCross wrote: »

I was clear on it when BoatMad said
"The FCP can only support one single connection of any type at a time"

Are you contradicting that?
i.e. the FCP can charge two EV's at the same time?

Yes they can, you can have two on the go at once but not two DC.

s.welstead

s.welstead wrote: »

Depending on the charger an i3 or E-golf can use it too. So if waiting you really shouldn't be in one of the spaces

They can only charge at 7 kw while Zoe can charge at the full 44 kw something people should consider before they write Zoe off due to the battery lease.

stesaurus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They can only charge at 7 kw while Zoe can charge at the full 44 kw something people should consider before they write Zoe off due to the battery lease.

Yes that's true. I'd be inclined to just wait rather than charge at 7kW. You're probably not saving any time unless whoever is using DC is going to be more than 20 mins.

It could also be like musical cars if I started on the AC and a Zoe turned up as really you'd be a bit of a **** to not let them on it instead.

In Naas a couple of months ago I was parked waiting for someone to finish charging at the DC and a lady pulled up in a Zoe and she asked how long we think we'd be and I told her she can start charging straight away because Zoe uses the AC side of the charger so I pulled out of the space and plugged her in and she was delighted, she didn't realise she could do this.

Likewise , I bet most Leaf owners don't know that when Zoe is charging that they can use the DC side.

It's always something to consider that if a Leaf is charging that another leaf owner shouldn't pull up and park in the space and move away from the car because even though they're next in line they're actually blocking a charger meaning they're not next in line.

same applies to Zoe owners.

stesaurus

A lot of education for users is needed. There's only a handful of EV's and less than 2k users and still there's so much confusion.

Rafal

BoatMad wrote: »

Only if there is a seperate SCP at the location

The FCP can only support one single connection of any type at a time

My experience at Tesco Bray contradicts that. I was able to successfully use Type 2 AC plug on the test drive i3 while a Leaf was using Chademo DC. This was from a single triple-headed rapid unit, not from two separate units.

cros13

Yup, only one vehicle at a time can use the DC side but on efacecs or ABBs the AC side can be used at the same time.

That's not the case for the PoS DBTs that got installed as part of the RCN program.

BoatMad

I see , the ABB can still support AC while DC is active

Can you therefore switch on the AC from the screen via the rfid card while the DC is active my comment week based on what I thought was that you have to select a particular cable to be active

That would make a type 2 socket to type 1 converter cable useful for leaf owners

What's the Naas one ? that can charge Zoe and Leaf at the same time.

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

That would make a type 2 socket to type 1 converter cable useful for leaf owners

Unfortunately not. The type 2 to type 1 cables usually don't work. I caught a guy trying to use one with a fluence at the Blanch efacec. Just to prove the point I let him try. Not sure why this is that case but the i3 also did not work until a recent software update.

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the Naas one ? that can charge Zoe and Leaf at the same time.

It's an efacec QC45

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Unfortunately not. The type 2 to type 1 cables usually don't work. I caught a guy trying to use one with a fluence at the Blanch efacec. Just to prove the point I let him try. Not sure why this is that case but the i3 also did not work until a recent software update.



It's an efacec QC45

Can't see why not , the signalling is identical

Looking at the ABB fcps today i can't see how you activate both AC and chademo at the same time. I can see it might be possible worth the DBT unit, but not sure

Rafal

BoatMad wrote: »

I see , the ABB can still support AC while DC is active

Can you therefore switch on the AC from the screen via the rfid card while the DC is active?

Yes, it intelligently only gives you the AC option when you scan your card while DC is in use.

cros13

A different card than was used to start the DC session. So when you present a different card to the ABB or efacec it will present the AC option while DC is in use.

The DBT UI (if it can be called that) doesn't give that option. I suspect the hardware is capable of simultaneos AC charging and it's just a software issue... though their electrical engineering work appears to have been done by the intern... so maybe not.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

A different card than was used to start the DC session. So when you present a different card to the ABB or efacec it will present the AC option while DC is in use.

The DBT UI (if it can be called that) doesn't give that option. I suspect the hardware is capable of simultaneos AC charging and it's just a software issue... though their electrical engineering work appears to have been done by the intern... so maybe not.

OK thanks, thats clarified my knowledge

I will rig up a type 2 socket to type 1 in the lab , would be a useful adaptor to carry

I heard all the siemens units are being replaced

You can even buy 3 phase AC to ChaDeMo, dead handy for our excellent 22 Kw AC points !!!

They are expensive and pretty large though.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

You can even buy 3 phase AC to ChaDeMo, dead handy for our excellent 22 Kw AC points !!!

They are expensive and pretty large though.

Not always large.... there's a portable 22kW CCS setup that's sold in Germany that's only 22kg....but it's also €17,000.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Not always large.... there's a portable 22kW CCS setup that's sold in Germany that's only 22kg....but it's also €17,000.

The ChadeMo one is something like 2,000 if I remember correctly.

It's not just the weight, it's the dimensions.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

The ChadeMo one is something like 2,000 if I remember correctly.

It's not just the weight, it's the dimensions.

heres one for 10kw and 4K dollars

I suspect in a year or two , it will be quite a cheap option and worth considering for leaf owners that regularly use SCPs

This ChaDeMo one I'm talking about works up to 20-22 Kw must find the link.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

This ChaDeMo one I'm talking about works up to 20-22 Kw must find the link.

I Know , its german i suspect over time this stuff will get very cheap and you'll be buying it on ebay

KCross

Looks like this cable would have solved my issue in my original post:
https://evcables.co.uk/evcables/type-2-to-type-1-converter/

Not cheap though!
But at least its possible and if you found the DC busy you could catch a few kWh's on AC.

Only worth it if you have the 6.6 kw leaf or any other EV with greater than 6 kw.

Would be handy if it worked at the 11 kw the updated BMW will support !

cros13

I suspect the 11kW multi-phase charging will come at the expense of the 7.4kW single phase charging.

I would expect you can charge from 1.8Kw all the way to 11 Kw like Zoe can all the way to 44 Kw, but single phase charging might be less efficient, Zoe's charger is criticised for being only about 70% efficient on single phase compared to about 90% for the Leaf. Don;t know about the BMW but most likely around 90% also.

Handy for Germans who mostly have 3 phase..............

cros13

I wouldn't.

The existing charger is a two parter. A 3.3kW charger integrated with the motor controller and an additional 4-ish kW charger as the KLE (komfortladeelektronik).

I'd be very surprised if support for multi-phase charging wasn't a separate 16A charger for each of three phases. After all that's also how Tesla implemented charging in european model S (although with 32A chargers and unlike in the US where there is a single phase 11kW charger and they add a second for two phase 22kW). That's why 22kW charging is a remote software update for the model S in europe but a hardware upgrade in the US.

Yes a separate single phase charger would be much more efficient and something renault should have addressed, though if I remember correctly I think they did when they finally addressed the issue with the portable EVSE but I'm not sure.

Only thing, I don't think BMW would install a separate 7 Kw charger so single phase users would miss out, they might install a 3.3 kw instead ?

cros13

They have a new chargepoint launching the end of the summer. The BMW wallbox connect.... WiFi, display and all the gubbins.