Can dealers legitimately swap out hardware?

Hockney

Hi all,

I'd appreciate your opinions on this one, I'm not sure if my local bike dealer is trying to pull a fast one or not.

I'm looking at buying a road bike, went down to the local dealer, saw one I liked, he quoted me a price, fair enough.

The bike in the shop was kitted out with Shimano Sora hardware all round, but on the manufacturers website (and everywhere else I've seen it online), it's equipped with Shimano Ultegra gear all around. I'm wondering if he's swapped out the hardware for cheaper gear, while still selling the bike at the original price. It could just be a case of him swapping it out and dropping the price accordingly.

Would a dealer swapping out the advertised hardware on a bike be commonplace? Or is it considered totally unethical?

I can't imagine too many manufacturers would be happy if they knew their bikes were shipped one way and sold on another, as a lesser bike

Cheers

ted1

Hockney wrote: »

Hi all,

I'd appreciate your opinions on this one, I'm not sure if my local bike dealer is trying to pull a fast one or not.

I'm looking at buying a road bike, went down to the local dealer, saw one I liked, he quoted me a price, fair enough.

The bike in the shop was kitted out with Shimano Sora hardware all round, but on the manufacturers website (and everywhere else I've seen it online), it's equipped with Shimano Ultegra gear all around. I'm wondering if he's swapped out the hardware for cheaper gear, while still selling the bike at the original price. It could just be a case of him swapping it out and dropping the price accordingly.

Would a dealer swapping out the advertised hardware on a bike be commonplace? Or is it considered totally unethical?

I can't imagine too many manufacturers would be happy if they knew their bikes were shipped one way and sold on another, as a lesser bike

Cheers

What make and model, and how much? I know cube had loads of different models out there with various gear , I think they tailored to diffetent market price points

C3PO

I'd be surprised if a dealer went to the trouble of swoping out the complete groupset on a new bike unless it was specifically requested by a customer - can't imagine that the saving would be worth the hassle?

seanin4711

Seen it happen,flash bianchi with sora etc.looks great from far away then on closer inspection very basic gear on it.
IMHO I think it definitely does happen.
Some dealers rely on green first time buyers in order to help them max out their 1000 allocation.
Do your research.


Don't know how star trek got their.
Gremlins on mobile app.

C3PO

seanin4711 wrote: »

Some dealers rely on green first time buyers in order to help them max out their 1000 allocation.
Do your research.

Don't think there would be anything available with full Ultegra for anything close to €1000?

bikermartin

seanin4711 wrote: »

Seen it happen,flash bianchi with sora etc.looks great from far away then on closer inspection very basic gear on it.
IMHO I think it definitely does happen.
Some dealers rely on green first time buyers in order to help them max out their 1000 allocation.
Do your research.

Then you would have an unboxed or incorrectly boxed groupset. Very difficult to sell without question's asked I'd think.

Beasty

Maybe dealers find themselves with someone asking for a better spec on one bike and swap everything over from another to get a higher price, putting the lower spec gear on the second bike

You would expect them to lower the price of the bike with the lower spec, but there's probably no obligation for them to do so.

velo.2010

This story reminds of the time the LIDL bike was on sale. Someone suggested you could buy the bike and swap out the Ultegra groupset and fit Sora, then return the bike for a refund (claiming its too small etc.). The unknowing staff would be oblivious to the swap. I don't believe anyone actually tried it.
I'd find it difficult to believe any shop would do something like this. More likely a small shop might order in a bike for a customer and receive an older year model with a a different groupset, finishing kit etc.

Kaisr Sose

Beasty wrote: »

Maybe dealers find themselves with someone asking for a better spec on one bike and swap everything over from another to get a higher price, putting the lower spec gear on the second bike

You would expect them to lower the price of the bike with the lower spec, but there's probably no obligation for them to do so.

No obligation to reduce the price ? They are mis representing the bike if selling it with a diofferent (lower) spec and not lowering the price.

Mis-representation = Goods not as described....breach of sale of goods act...?

Maybe they can legally hide behind the RRP and legitimately charge more or the full RRP for a lower spec but it would appear sharp practice to me if shops do this.

cython

I know my OH lucked out on the basis of some switching done by one particular shop. Basically they bought in a top of the range ladies' aero bike with Di2 and deep section wheels, and later realised they were unlikely to actually sell that, so instead they put 105 on that off another bike, and put the Di2 onto another frame (can't recall whether there was a third bike involved!). She wasn't complaining though, as she got the higher end frame, etc. for a lower price, and they figured they could sell Di2 with the other bike a bit more easily.

So not sure of it being a "legitimate" swap (whatever that means), but it is not unheard of, though as noted they made price adjustments accordingly as well. The guys in the shop also liked tinkering with this stuff, by all accounts!

Cee-Jay-Cee

Ive seen it done but the price was adjusted accordingly.

OP what bike is it? And what price is it?

CramCycle

My LBS done it for my bike but the price dropped accordingly. There was no attempt to hide it. I was delighted that I could now afford it.

C3PO

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

No obligation to reduce the price ? They are mis representing the bike if selling it with a diofferent (lower) spec and not lowering the price.

Mis-representation = Goods not as described....breach of sale of goods act...?

Maybe they can legally hide behind the RRP and legitimately charge more or the full RRP for a lower spec but it would appear sharp practice to me if shops do this.

I don't see how it could be construed as misrepresentation if the retailer puts a bike on the floor with a price attached? Now if he were to claim that it's a specific model and he has altered the spec then that's a different matter!

El Tarangu

velo.2010 wrote: »

This story reminds of the time the LIDL bike was on sale. Someone suggested you could buy the bike and swap out the Ultegra groupset...

LIDL were selling a bike with an Ultegra groupset?? Must have misplaced my leaflet that week; how long ago was this?

Hockney

Thanks for the replies all.

Here's the bike from manufacturer's website: http://www.focus-bikes.com/gb/en/bikes/2015/framesets/performance-culebro/culebro-sl-10.html

Price quoted was €1000 which includes maybe €75 of accessories. Since it's discontinued most places I look online I can't find a comparable price. It just seems a bit daft to me that a bike can be on the shop floor "brand new" with a good chunk of the hardware on it difference from manufacturer's spec.

So what say ye? Does approx €1000 sound about right given it's loaded with Sora hardware and not Ultegra?

Cheers

fat bloke

Usually 1000 euro gets you aluminium and 105. Or maybe carbon and tiagra. Sora is a bit low rent for a grand if you ask me.

Usually what bike manufacturers have is a frame set and then a couple of spec levels at different price points, so let's say it's there Framio-sport 1.0 with tiagra. Then the Framio-sport 2.0 with 105, and the Framio sport 3.0 with Ultegra. You'd have to think that the shop would have to match the manufacturers specs, so if they're advertising a Framio-sport 3.0, that the specs should match up. No more than a trim level on a motor - LE, LX, SE, Msport, whatever.

Anyway, long story short, I think you can do better for your thousand euro than what you're getting.

nilhg

http://www.focus-bikes.com/gb/en/bikes/2015/framesets/performance-culebro/culebro-sl-40.html

Same frame (maybe different paint job) with sora.

For what it's worth my cousin bought one in Denmark, the Ultegra version, for €1200 odd back around Christmas time, lovely bike.

Cee-Jay-Cee

The Culebro 1.0 should have Ultegra 6800. I can't see how it ever could be sold for €1000 in a shop here. Saying that €1000 is way too much for a Sora spec bike.

Like said by the poster above €1000 will get you a much higher spec bike elsewhere, however if you really want the bike then offer them €700 saying that it's going to cost you €400-500 to upgrade it to Ultegra (taking into consideration the price you'll get for selling your Sora groupset)

Donie75

Culebro 4.0 is €900 in The Edge in Cork. http://www.theedge-sports.com/product/96790/Focus-Culebro-SL-4.0-Sora-2015-White/
So it looks like you are buying the lower end model and at a fairly high price.
Actually, the one in The Edge is in the Clearance section so maybe the RRP is €1000.

stecleary

Donie75 wrote: »

Culebro 4.0 is €900 in The Edge in Cork. http://www.theedge-sports.com/product/96790/Focus-Culebro-SL-4.0-Sora-2015-White/
So it looks like you are buying the lower end model and at a fairly high price.
Actually, the one in The Edge is in the Clearance section so maybe the RRP is €1000.

€900 with Sora, this would defend the shop more so in line with he OPs question.

TonyStark

Beasty wrote: »

Maybe dealers find themselves with someone asking for a better spec on one bike and swap everything over from another to get a higher price, putting the lower spec gear on the second bike

You would expect them to lower the price of the bike with the lower spec, but there's probably no obligation for them to do so.

I know with my second bike to work coming around I'll be asking them to swap the rear derailleur and cassette: 11x28 -> 11x32 please :-)

I am sure it does happen but it's a lot of hassle and anyone buying something with Ultegra upwards should notice this so I don't see the point. For the lower spec groupsets I can't see it being worth their while.

Fian

Hockney wrote: »

Thanks for the replies all.

Here's the bike from manufacturer's website: http://www.focus-bikes.com/gb/en/bikes/2015/framesets/performance-culebro/culebro-sl-10.html

Price quoted was €1000 which includes maybe €75 of accessories. Since it's discontinued most places I look online I can't find a comparable price. It just seems a bit daft to me that a bike can be on the shop floor "brand new" with a good chunk of the hardware on it difference from manufacturer's spec.

So what say ye? Does approx €1000 sound about right given it's loaded with Sora hardware and not Ultegra?

Cheers

http://www.focus-bikes.com/gb/en/bikes/2015/framesets/performance-culebro/culebro-sl-40.html

Culebro with Sora fitted. Nothing to see here I think, they bring out different models at different pricepoints, much like you can buy various different specs of cars which are within the same make and model.


Edit: oops for some reason i missed several posts already pointing this out ahead of me, I must not have noticed there was a second page of comments.

CramCycle

Looks like a reasonable price point, paint job of the higher spec for the price that it is meant to be.

I wouldn't pay 1000 for it myself, somewhere between 700 and 900 for last years model.

Kaisr Sose

C3PO wrote: »

Now if he were to claim that it's a specific model and he has altered the spec then that's a different matter!

That was my point!

Hockney

I'm basing my belief that this is the Culebro 1.0 solely on the red/black colour scheme on the manufacturers website (bike in the shop was red/black).

I spoke to a reputable dealer on this also, he basically echoed most people's points on here saying €1000 is overpriced given Sora hardware on board, and around €800 would be closer to the mark. Given the €75 odd of accessories, that looks like it's still over the odds.

The other dealer I contacted was also a bit perplexed as to why the red/black bike should have different hardware than the manufacturer advertised, as when they get their bikes in, this hardware is already loaded. So he reckons some work was done to it somewhere along the way.

Given these two points, I generally don't like the smell of it, so I'll be steering clear, looks like I can spend my €1000 better somewhere else.

Thanks for the advice all!

outfox

bikermartin wrote: »

Then you would have an unboxed or incorrectly boxed groupset. Very difficult to sell without question's asked I'd think.

Could be sold easily enough if a customer brings a bike into his/her LBS and says 'I'd like to fit an Ultegra groupset to this.' LBS says 'No bother, we'll order the gruppo. €700. Extra €100 to fit'.
Customer will never see what box Ultegra came out of.
Or LBS could say 'We have a spare Ultegra gruppo here left over from an upgrade job'.
They'd probably shift 105 or Ultegra easily enough that way. Maybe not DA.

Kaisr Sose

outfox wrote: »

Could be sold easily enough if a customer brings a bike into his/her LBS and says 'I'd like to fit an Ultegra groupset to this.' LBS says 'No bother, we'll order the gruppo. €700. Extra €100 to fit'.
Customer will never see what box Ultegra came out of.
Or LBS could say 'We have a spare Ultegra gruppo here left over from an upgrade job'.
They'd probably shift 105 or Ultegra easily enough that way. Maybe not DA.

An OEM Ultegra 6800 group costs about 400 wholesale... No bike shop should have to canabilise one bike to up spec another. It's just messing. But I guess there are some bikes shops that would do it as they don't want to be left with a bunch of parts and no frame to hang them on.

Buzwaldo

El Tarangu wrote: »

LIDL were selling a bike with an Ultegra groupset?? Must have misplaced my leaflet that week; how long ago was this?

About 6-7 years ago, they had an aluminium bike with ultegra triple groupset for 1000 yoyos. Called Stratos IIRC. Occasionally see one popping up on donedeal /adverts etc. Mate of mine reckoned somebody got a job lot of ultegra triple gruppos, possibly as they were going up a generation, and bunged them on alu frames for Lidl.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055526391

ted1

Donie75 wrote: »

Culebro 4.0 is €900 in The Edge in Cork. http://www.theedge-sports.com/product/96790/Focus-Culebro-SL-4.0-Sora-2015-White/
So it looks like you are buying the lower end model and at a fairly high price.
Actually, the one in The Edge is in the Clearance section so maybe the RRP is €1000.

He said 1000 including 75 euro of extras. I wouldn't say 25 euro counts as paying a fairly high price

galwaycyclist

Hockney wrote: »

Hi all,

I'd appreciate your opinions on this one, I'm not sure if my local bike dealer is trying to pull a fast one or not.

I'm looking at buying a road bike, went down to the local dealer, saw one I liked, he quoted me a price, fair enough.

The bike in the shop was kitted out with Shimano Sora hardware all round, but on the manufacturers website (and everywhere else I've seen it online), it's equipped with Shimano Ultegra gear all around. I'm wondering if he's swapped out the hardware for cheaper gear, while still selling the bike at the original price. It could just be a case of him swapping it out and dropping the price accordingly.

Would a dealer swapping out the advertised hardware on a bike be commonplace? Or is it considered totally unethical?

I can't imagine too many manufacturers would be happy if they knew their bikes were shipped one way and sold on another, as a lesser bike

Cheers

I have heard of a situation where someone bought an expensive bike and found when collecting it that that the parts did not match what they understood they had bought.

Buyer beware etc.

seanin4711

Planet x Ireland.
SRAM rival all round on website agreed over phone.
Went to collect.
FSA crank and PX brakes.
Not as described pissed off slightly when collecting.
Didn't like the way they stated that they "didn't have the parts in stock". Even though I was waiting a month to get it built up.

MarcinG

C3PO wrote: »

I'd be surprised if a dealer went to the trouble of swoping out the complete groupset on a new bike unless it was specifically requested by a customer - can't imagine that the saving would be worth the hassle?

Friend of mine recently bought cube ltd sl locally. On One of internet sites we saw identical bike (all components forks etc seems identical by description so was the name of the bike) with full shimano XT (including brakes i just checked for sure). I remember us even trying to lower the price (as on internet bike was slightly cheaper including delivery) but they didn't have size for him online. We were convinced that bike is full xt till i bought pair of xt brakes for myself and investigated differences in between "new" and "old" XT beforehand. Then I noticed that my friends brakes (even though they look almost identical to XT) are in fact deore. I'm not throwing stones at anyone just saying that it looks odd to me.

stecleary

seanin4711 wrote: »

Planet x Ireland.
SRAM rival all round on website agreed over phone.
Went to collect.
FSA crank and PX brakes.
Not as described pissed off slightly when collecting.
Didn't like the way they stated that they "didn't have the parts in stock". Even though I was waiting a month to get it built up.

did you take the bike?