The Earth, consumption, and where civilisation is heading

Confucius say

Why is everyone oblivious to the fact that we are consuming too much? The amount of rubbish a Westerner produces these days is so scary. We're importing food and a lot of unnecessary goods from all over the world instead of focusing on sustainability. In fact, human nature seems to go the opposite way of sustainability and greed and corruption gets in the way.

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the world is doomed if we keep going how we're going? Species are being wiped out every day, the remaining wilderness is being replaced with farms - see Indonesia and South East Asia in general, palm oil plantations are fuelling products we buy but at the same time destroying natural habitat.

I try to recycle etc, even though it's utterly pointless with the amount of things we're producing, but I've given in to the fact that we are screwed going this way, and I'm just trying to enjoy the last days while I can.

This is a case of Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

Ozzy

In one word sir - Ignorance. How can you fix something if you don't know that it's there? This is ignorance. How do you remove ignorance? Wisdom. Truth. How do you make everyone wise? You can't, you can only make yourself wise. But if everyone makes themselves wise..

The only way to truly better yourself is through wisdom and compassion. If you have neither of these, you will consume and consume, always hungry, trying to satiate the craving. What are you craving? Ignorance keeps you from knowing. Not knowing, you will be wasteful, greedy, hateful, deluded.. You will suffer in life. If you suffer we all suffer, because we are all interconnected. We share the same air, water, sunlight. The same minerals from the earth make our bones and build our bodies. Our whole existence is built upon relationship. Yet through ignorance we believe ourselves to be separate.


Be compassionate to yourself, and others. There are things outside of our control, but we can make a difference.

Joe1919

Confucius say wrote: »

...Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the world is doomed if we keep going how we're going? ...

I think there are several reasons. The first (that I can think of) is that we are often fatalistic about things that we feel we cant control, so hence , why worry?
The second is our skepticism about certain sciences and their ability to predict the future.
The third is our natural optimism and blind faith in mans progress.
The fourth is our herd instinct and our ability to 'go with the flow'. If no one else is worrying, why should I ?
The fifth is our natural egoism.
etc etc.

Fox_In_Socks

We have a huge influence on the world, that is true. But remember, there have been huge influences in the past that challenged life and forced it to diversify. All those comets and asteroids and volcanic activity that wiped out almost all life at various periods, but life survived and endured, though in an altered way. If those events hadn't happened, we wouldn't be here right now.

Likewise, with us, we are changing the planet on a global scale and causing a man made extinction event, but maybe in a few hundred million years, someone or something will look back and wonder at what caused such an event that gave rise to them.

solo1y

It's hard to predict the future. Historically, when things have looked like they were going to implode, something happened that no one foresaw.

It's always tempting to believe that the times we live in are somehow more important, or more urgent, than other times, but this is probably not the case.

Torakx

Supplication to authority figures from childhood, all the way up to college or university, would be one of the culprits in my view.
This tends to cause people to fall into that herd mentality of seeking a perceived higher authority figure or power figure, to fix our problems and tell us what to do.
I'm sure all are familiar with the term "nanny state".
Those who follow orders the best are the children of nanny state.
They will worry when the authorities tell them to worry.

As mentioned above in other posts, there is the issue of knowledge and wisdom.
Television and other forms of mass media act as a second nanny, informing us what to think and fear.
So even if one was to consciously deny this perceived authority of the state, often they will succumb to programming.
I don't think I need to mention religion after all that.

I had to suffer quite a bit over years, before I accidentally stumbled across something that made me stop and think about the whole of my reality.
Once that door is opened for our curiosity, we can begin unraveling the many questions that follow.

Rich people(on average) probably don't worry so genuinely about the homeless, because it is not a personal fear.
But I noticed in myself over the last few years, as i became more and more likely to be homeless, that I began to care more about them.
And it feels genuine, but I believe this is because I can now sit in their shoes more easily and understand the reality of it.
It became more real and not just another picture on the screen or a beggar who might or might not be a chancer.

It's all about perspective and of course every action is selfish on some level.
Which leads me to think that the majority won't snap out of this reverie for authority, without feeling that boot to their neck aswell.
They won't care about the environment because it's not a direct problem right now.
It doesn't bode well for humanity from this perspective does it!

The good news is that people experiencing acts of kindness even just watching genuine acts, also get the same effect as the person doing the act.
An oxytocin hit.
Check out some of Simon Sineks stuff to get a better idea of how this could change society if done correctly.
Here is a good explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V81pcOSm9Q

With regards to the world and all the pollution and waste..
That's a tough one.
The ones who are wide awake and fully conscious, might have to work extra hard to bring more awareness to others.
When people have their blinkers on, it will take their lives being torn apart or toxic sludge on their doorstep to begin that thinking process. Unless we simulate it first for them or somehow snap them out of their life on the rat wheel.
I fell off the wheel and got sick. I was lucky. If lucky can be called seeing everything for what it is LOL
People with full time jobs and children, may never wake up to the reality around them.

A proactive question.
What area of life is the best to teach people a lesson?
Like a child who wants to hurt themselves, sometimes we have to manage their mistakes so they learn without doing too much damage.
Sometimes explaining is not enough.
What areas of life would be suitable for society to have a "close call" in order to snap to attention?

_Brian

It's a very interesting conversation.

I see lots of talk about ignorance and wisdom and educating people. But there is the problem that we're moving into a society that doesn't care. They know what they are doing is destructive but their sphere of interest stops with themselves.
It's to be seen everywhere, people who litter and fly-tip their rubbish rather than take responsibility for it. People who continuously drink excessively, eat excessively, take drugs. Similarly those in power who abuse it for personal gain above serving the overall good. Parents who couldn't be bothered feeding their kids and raising them to their full potential.

So many people just don't care about those around them or society in general, they know better but choose not to bother.

looksee

_Brian wrote: »

It's a very interesting conversation.

I see lots of talk about ignorance and wisdom and educating people. But there is the problem that we're moving into a society that doesn't care. They know what they are doing is destructive but their sphere of interest stops with themselves.
It's to be seen everywhere, people who litter and fly-tip their rubbish rather than take responsibility for it. People who continuously drink excessively, eat excessively, take drugs. Similarly those in power who abuse it for personal gain above serving the overall good. Parents who couldn't be bothered feeding their kids and raising them to their full potential.

So many people just don't care about those around them or society in general, they know better but choose not to bother.

The idea that we are moving into a society that does not care is just not correct. There is probably more concern for other people than at any other time in history.

We have moved on from the industrial revolution when people were just fodder for machines, we have moved on from the agrarian society when if you could not grow or trade for what you needed, you starved. We have moved on from the expectation that people would go to war or into battle to satisfy the power hunger of their lords.

There was a time when the powerful and wealthy had total control over everyone else, people were just pawns to be used. I am not suggesting everything is perfect, but we are a lot closer than we were even 100 years ago.

I am not suggesting that everywhere in the world is even remotely near to what we have, but there was a time when there was nowhere in the world that had what most people on the planet have now. And I am not just talking about material goods. I am talking about the peace, stability and security that most countries, in the west at any rate, have.

There is still a great deal to be done, we will never be able to rest on our laurels, but we are immeasurably nearer than we have ever been in the past.

Those people who have commented so far on this thread, are you aware of the airmiles involved in the food you buy? Do you concern yourself with the cheap labour that is used to make cheap clothes for you? Do you sort and recycle your rubbish? Do you avoid buying stuff that is grossly over packed? Have you bought plastic bottles of water recently? I am far from perfect when it comes to doing all these things, but they are the small everyday things that could make a difference if we all took notice of them.

CalamariFritti

Its one of my favourite subjects especially since there are so few people that want to talk about it. Or can talk about it.

Like yourself I believe that we are having a hugely negative impact on the planet and its inhabitants. And if we don't cop on we are probably going to destroy and consume nearly everything including ourselves. We are wondering what our extinction event could be, but I think there is a very big chance that we are the extinction event.

Apparently we have already killed off over 50% of all non domestic 'bio-mass' as they call it since 1970. And we will kill them all off. We have no choice the way we're growing it seems. There's billions of us and there'll be more and more and we will simply require all possible resources and we will take them too. And thats not even taking into account all the resources we consume simply for being greedy and wasteful.

The sad thing is we actually know. There are a lot of people who don't understand this and some ignorant people and some people who simply don't care, but I believe most people actually understand this. Ever wondered what our fascination with apocalyptic scenarios is? Like in those countless books and movies about meteor strikes, aliens attacks, zombies, plagues, intelligent apes taking over, diseases, whatnot?
Wasn't there a hugely successful movie about someone who thought humankind's only chance of survival was to kill nearly everyone off? Tom Hanks in it? Anyone remember what Agent Smith said in the Matrix? That pretty much sums it up tbh.

Individually we know, we understand, we can be emphatic, mindful, caring, loving, understanding, even prudent, but our hive mind sucks if you like. The greedy, the power hungry dictate how we evolve and behave as a species. Our maybe there's just too many of us.

Politically and socially one could argue that the attempt at communism/socialism or whatever you want to call it, maybe progressive society, was an attempt of sorts to improve the hive mind. But that didn't work out. We nearly had an extinction event over our right to go back to unbridled consumption and we all know who won, unbridled consumption.

Anyway I don't think it will be the end of everything. Just another evolutionary cycle. A short enough blip probably. Our own superiority over all other animals will get us. The one thing we thought that makes us the pinnacle of creation. We have no natural enemies, no predators we fear who keep our numbers in check. So there is nothing that can bring balance back other than ourselves. And we won't do it. We'll consume it all up to the point where we start consuming ourselves. And that'll be that. What comes after that, who knows. If some of us survive we're probably going to be at the same point 50,000 years later again. We're actually not the pinnacle, we're the ones that didn't work out.

Absolam

On the other hand, you could argue that we've become the apex species by shaping our environment to suit ourselves. As long as we continue to do that, whilst everything currently recognisable in the world will come to an end, we as a species will continue. A few tens of millennia from now we may be spread out across the solar system with no record whatsoever of what this planet used to be like, and no reason to care. We've got a nostalgic emotional attachment to the flora and fauna around us, but it's possible our descendants won't have the slightest interest in the other species we sacrificed for our own benefit.

CalamariFritti

Sounds not impossible but horrific to me.