Enforceability of "No Callers" signs

grundie

After getting plagued by doorstep salesmen (10 times in one week) we decided to put up a little sign saying "Sorry, no callers without prior arrangement".

We actually have two, one in our front window and a laminated one under the door knocker. For a while they worked, but now they are getting ignored.

When challenged the callers either claim they didn't see the sign, or in some cases say they are told to ignore them by their managers.

So in these circumstances what can we do? I know in the big scheme of things its a minor issue, but it is really annoying to he have to go through the "sorry, not interested" spiel with every salesman. Also, our front door is next to our living room window so ignoring callers is a challenge. They'll just keep knocking on the window until they get our attention - its easy to tell if someone is in.

I did once go to the guards after one salesman literally put his foot in the door, but they said because I admitted to pushing the door on his foot to get him to leave I would be up for assault if the salesman reported it. That didn't seem right to me.

Can salesmen just ignore such signs with impunity?

eamonnq

A quick 'no thank you', to whoever calls usually suffices, no time spent listening to their spiel.

Pat Mustard

grundie wrote: »

Can salesmen just ignore such signs with impunity?

I can't think of any practical solution to deterring ordinary salesmen except ignoring them.

Your sign may be a bit tame for a determined idiot though. Maybe try something a little less subtle?
Link

brian_t

grundie wrote: »

After getting plagued by doorstep salesmen (10 times in one week) we decided to put up a little sign saying "Sorry, no callers without prior arrangement".

Hi don't worry, I'm not here to sell you anything.

I sell Double Glazing and here's my leaflet. I'd just like to make an appointment at your convenience to come back and discuss this with you.

livedadream

Stop answering the door.
Ive just moved to a park/estate whatever people call it, from the country and have one of those stickers on the letter box, eye level very visible.

my living room windows are right next to the front door if someone calls they can read the sign,
i have had one poor fecker knock on the window while i was clearly sitting down eating my dinner and watching TV, he said ill only take moment and i told him to read the sign,

off he toddled.

i found it really tough at first because i felt like i was being really rude or ignorant but if they are ignoring the sign or knocking on my window when they can see me sitting down eating then i figure thats worse.

January

If anybody knocked at my window I'd just close the blind down while they stood there. How rude.

livedadream

January wrote: »

If anybody knocked at my window I'd just close the blind down while they stood there. How rude.

yeah let me paint the picture, nice evening, me post run sweaty and red faces, shovelling my dinner into me in front of the TV watching Teen Mom OG so i can go shower,
i see the guy coming up the drive he clearly sees me,
rings the door bell,
i ignore it,
he comes around knocks on the window,
i look out, he does the wavy hand motion for me to open the door.
i say theres a sign and he looks at me like a lost puppy,
my heart and brain roaring at each other to stop being such a cnut and answer the door the poor fecker has kids that need braces or a new leg or something,
then something flips, this is the third night ive had, vodaphone, the electricity people and the Mercy hospital people looking for me, i give money to charity privately, i pay my bills, i work 50 hours a week **** OFF AND LEAVE ME ENJOY MY SAD SALAD AND TEEN MOM IN PEACE YA BASTRADS!
i told him to read the sign and went back to scoffing dinner.

im heartless now. door knockers have changed me

Pat Mustard

livedadream wrote: »

im heartless now. door knockers have changed me

To disturb viewing of Teen Mom would harden any man.

livedadream

Pat Mustard wrote: »

To disturb viewing of Teen Mom would harden any man.

TEEN MOM OG not just any old plain Teen Mom, OG is the original!!

and yeah ive seen things now, i can never go back

ps: im clearly a girl btw

Canadel

Technically they are all trespassing on your property? You could just threaten to call the Gardai or put up a notice to that effect if it really bothers you.

Tenorio

I find uninvited intrusions on my serenity by salesmen,charity collectors etc absolutely intolerable and indeed have considered initiating a campaign to have the practice prohibited by law.It may be said that the intrusion may last only a minute or two but the mood of relaxation and serenity is often broken
I never answer my door directly-I have an intercom installed outside (beside front door) and will only respond to that.Generally unsolicited callers are uncomfortable speaking into an intercom and expect a person who communicates by intercom to be an unpromising prospect from their point of view .After they have explained the purpose of their call my first words are "i'm very sorry,but...and Ithen proceed with a polite,negative response .I do not argue with them-if they persist,I repeat "i'm sorry,very sorry indeed"and disconnect intercom.I am always careful to remain polite-the person at the other end may be unstable and it would seem foolish to antagonize them.I would certainly recommend installation of an intercom to those irritated by practices described

MadDog76

I usually say "Sorry, I only speak to people who respect the sign" and then quickly close the door while they figure that one out!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ScouseMouse

Interesting discussion.

So, if you put a sign on your gate "no cold callers, write for an appointment" "trespassers prosecuted", could you actually hop on someone ignoring it ???:D

Semi serious what if question!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ScouseMouse

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So what can you do to them? Can you grab them and call the gardai?

esforum

grundie wrote: »

After getting plagued by doorstep salesmen (10 times in one week) we decided to put up a little sign saying "Sorry, no callers without prior arrangement".

We actually have two, one in our front window and a laminated one under the door knocker.

Surelt at the end of the driveway is the place for a no entry / appointment only sign?

In theory if you have it there, you have removed the right of access but that would include the milkman, postman and whatever other people have business with you but have no appointment.

grundie wrote: »

So in these circumstances what can we do? I know in the big scheme of things its a minor issue, but it is really annoying to he have to go through the "sorry, not interested" spiel with every salesman. Also, our front door is next to our living room window so ignoring callers is a challenge. They'll just keep knocking on the window until they get our attention - its easy to tell if someone is in.

This may sound odd, but be rude. Be an absolute arsehole. Companies and sales staff will learn to avoid your house. In all honesty, even if I didnt adopt that attitude, someone repeatedly knocking on my window would be thrown over the driveway gate head first.

esforum

ScouseMouse wrote: »

So what can you do to them? Can you grab them and call the gardai?

sue them, theres a civil and criminal tresspass. This one is civil

dilallio

I keep a small pile of Born-Again Christian leaflets along with a bible in drawer inside the front door for the purpose of discouraging door to door sales people.

As soon as they tell me who they represent, I ask them if they've been saved, and show them a leaflet or twoand invite them in. If that doesn't get rid of them, I have the bible bookmarked at the section where St. Paul was converted on the road to Damascus, and as soon as they see that, they can't get out of there quick enough. My uncle taught me that trick.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

dudara

In a similar vein, but around junk mail, I've often wondered if putting up a sign stating "any unsolicited mail or advertising material will be charged a €10 disposal fee per item. Depositing of the unsolicited material indicates acceptance of these T&Cs"

Would that stand up?

Could be a nice little revenue stream

ScouseMouse

dudara wrote: »

In a similar vein, but around junk mail, I've often wondered if putting up a sign stating "any unsolicited mail or advertising material will be charged a €10 disposal fee per item. Depositing of the unsolicited material indicates acceptance of these T&Cs"

Would that stand up?

Could be a nice little revenue stream

I like that! Or what about, "no uninvited callers, trespass fee 100 euro"

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

d31b0y

Well, isn't it well for ya. So many callers that you get to pick and choose who to turn away. I live in the middle of nowhere. What wouldn't I do for the odd cold caller / salesman? Tis a lonely life.

gctest50

We need no-cold-caller-zones here :

http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/business/trading-standards/campaigns/no-cold-calling-zones/locations-no-cold-calling-zones

Pawwed Rig

Unless I am expecting someone or recognise the person at the door I won't answer it*. It is never someone you want to talk to is it?
Must get a camera and intercom.

*there was a little confusion when the poor census lady called around.

Canadel

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What if they hop over closed or electric gates to gain entry to a property?

Basically anyone can knock your door/ring your bell until you tell them otherwise. It is only then that they become trespassers. The Gardaí have no interest in civil matters like this.

So visual communication in the form of a sign is not sufficient to dissuade someone from accessing a private property? In which case I can rock up to a property with a big "Beware the Dog" sign, allow the dog to maul me, and then sue the owner of the property?

marklazarcovic

Ive had a few,one on a sunday,and another on easter monday, i have a no salesmen or politicians sign up... I just answer and ask "what u selling?" .. look at sign,close door...

They dont give a fcuk n neither do i,lying fcuks the lot of them

esforum

Canadel wrote: »

What if they hop over closed or electric gates to gain entry to a property?
So visual communication in the form of a sign is not sufficient to dissuade someone from accessing a private property? In which case I can rock up to a property with a big "Beware the Dog" sign, allow the dog to maul me, and then sue the owner of the property?

yes, if you are able to freely do so. Climning a wall however is tresspass. Personally I think those signs are counter productive, you are admitting your dog is dangerous.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What if you went down the route of littering or dumping on private property?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

MarkAnthony

Find large stone, wrap in paper. Tape junk mail to stone wrapped in paper. Post stone to junk mailers address with no postage.

Cold callers, No thanks, close door.

We did have a nice chat to Gerry though, have I mentioned Gerry popped round? :pac:

5uspect

They have a habit of coming ringing our doorbell when we're putting our nine month old to bed.
I've angrily run several canvassers for waking her.

I had a dope the other day, during the afternoon, walk up the driveway and see her asleep on my shoulder through the window and then go and ring the doorbell. ****er ignored my frenetic hand waving to go away. WTF?

A few years ago Airtricity salesmen instigated a campaign of harassment on the Limerick estate I was living in at the time. You'd come home from work and see a group of them loitering about like a pack of wolves. They'd spend the rest of the evening hammering on doors. They must have knocked on ours a dozen times. Now when they come knocking they get an absolute earful and told under no circumstances will Airtricity ever see any business from me.

RainyDay

esforum wrote: »

sue them, theres a civil and criminal tresspass. This one is civil

Not very practical really, you can't be going to meet with a solicitor every time anyone drops in.

ScouseMouse wrote: »

So what can you do to them? Can you grab them and call the gardai?

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You can use reasonable force to move them off your property, but you can't detain them.

the_syco

Does the plants on your front lawn need continuous watering from automatic sprinklers?

esforum

RainyDay wrote: »

Not very practical really, you can't be going to meet with a solicitor every time anyone drops in.

Tough! The OP asked about the legal options, thats the legal option.

rucksack

grundie wrote: »

After getting plagued by doorstep salesmen (10 times in one week) we decided to put up a little sign saying "Sorry, no callers without prior arrangement".

We actually have two, one in our front window and a laminated one under the door knocker. For a while they worked, but now they are getting ignored.

When challenged the callers either claim they didn't see the sign, or in some cases say they are told to ignore them by their managers.

So in these circumstances what can we do? I know in the big scheme of things its a minor issue, but it is really annoying to he have to go through the "sorry, not interested" spiel with every salesman. Also, our front door is next to our living room window so ignoring callers is a challenge. They'll just keep knocking on the window until they get our attention - its easy to tell if someone is in.

I did once go to the guards after one salesman literally put his foot in the door, but they said because I admitted to pushing the door on his foot to get him to leave I would be up for assault if the salesman reported it. That didn't seem right to me.

Can salesmen just ignore such signs with impunity?

My friend bills them for his time opening the door. So far two out of three have paid

rucksack

livedadream wrote: »

Stop answering the door.
Ive just moved to a park/estate whatever people call it, from the country and have one of those stickers on the letter box, eye level very visible.

my living room windows are right next to the front door if someone calls they can read the sign,
i have had one poor fecker knock on the window while i was clearly sitting down eating my dinner and watching TV, he said ill only take moment and i told him to read the sign,

off he toddled.

i found it really tough at first because i felt like i was being really rude or ignorant but if they are ignoring the sign or knocking on my window when they can see me sitting down eating then i figure thats worse.

Knocking on the door when told not to is rude and ignorant

rucksack

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

But if you have sign at the door are you not removing implied permission to knock or put a flyer in? Should they not then go away with ringing the bell? Also OP you could write to the head office and tell them you do not want them calling. One of the companies apparently have a handheld gizmo that tells them where not to call. I cannot recall where i read that. People should be able to opt out as they can of addressed junk mail. As well as annoyance who would buy from a person at the door rather than doing your own research as they only tell one side of it?. i would not engage with them or answer any questions as to who I am with for phone/gas etc

rucksack

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

what does a penalty mean in this context?

esforum

rucksack wrote: »

But if you have sign at the door are you not removing implied permission to knock or put a flyer in? Should they not then go away with ringing the bell?

it all still leads to suing, are you going to hire a solicitor over it when even if you win your fees would outweigh anything you will get.

Its pretty simple: time, money and effort > reward

esforum

rucksack wrote: »

My friend bills them for his time opening the door. So far two out of three have paid

thats very amusing but could you expand on it? How does he bill them? Does he declare this little bit of extra income? Is he within the law?

Obviously I dont doubt the tax man couldnt give a ****e about a tenner at someones door anymore than they care about the old lamp you sold on adverts last week BUT if you decide to get the law involved, you better be sure you wont be the one getting strutinised.

rucksack

esforum wrote: »

thats very amusing but could you expand on it? How does he bill them? Does he declare this little bit of extra income? Is he within the law?

Obviously I dont doubt the tax man couldnt give a ****e about a tenner at someones door anymore than they care about the old lamp you sold on adverts last week BUT if you decide to get the law involved, you better be sure you wont be the one getting strutinised.

sent a bill for his time with a complaint. He is very creative. if it is junk mail he sends back some junk from his bin. And one time sent a slice of bread to a church who junk mailed him and told them it was the bread of life...

If you tell enough of them where to go and complain to their bosses it seems to get around and they avoid you.But it seems unwanted callers have more rights in our homes than we do. Some are very cheeky and abusive when refused

Canadel

5uspect wrote: »

A few years ago Airtricity salesmen instigated a campaign of harassment on the Limerick estate I was living in at the time. You'd come home from work and see a group of them loitering about like a pack of wolves. They'd spend the rest of the evening hammering on doors. They must have knocked on ours a dozen times. Now when they come knocking they get an absolute earful and told under no circumstances will Airtricity ever see any business from me.

I live in the country but I'm still struggling to believe that. Sounds more like the Gestapo tbh.

Surely at that stage it would count as harassment as well?

son.of.jimi

In my old house there was a bit of a hallway and callers could see whoever was about to answer the door for 4-5 seconds before it was answered. After numerous attempts at putting up signs and all of them ignoring it, I began approaching the door to answer but picked up an airsoft rifle I had left in the hallway along the way.

There was never anyone at the front door by the time i got to it...

sandra06

rucksack wrote: »

sent a bill for his time with a complaint. He is very creative. if it is junk mail he sends back some junk from his bin. And one time sent a slice of bread to a church who junk mailed him and told them it was the bread of life...

If you tell enough of them where to go and complain to their bosses it seems to get around and they avoid you.But it seems unwanted callers have more rights in our homes than we do. Some are very cheeky and abusive when refused

love the bread one

mickotoole

I missed the census guy the other day. Text him to say that I was available on Friday evening if he wanted to call back then. He text me today asking if he could call this evening, I told him again that Friday was the only day that suited. Cue this evening when Bob rang my door bell, causing the dog to go nuts and wake my 18 month old. I was rightly ****ed off with him. What's the point in asking when I'm free if it's going to be ignored. Anyway I usually tell whoever is at the door that I'm already with them that generally gets rid of them.

esforum

rucksack wrote: »

sent a bill for his time with a complaint. He is very creative. if it is junk mail he sends back some junk from his bin. And one time sent a slice of bread to a church who junk mailed him and told them it was the bread of life...

If you tell enough of them where to go and complain to their bosses it seems to get around and they avoid you.But it seems unwanted callers have more rights in our homes than we do. Some are very cheeky and abusive when refused

in all fairness, this can be taken two ways. Your friend is a bored dick with too much time on his hands if he can spend it doing this

or

hes a man that believes a message sent should be sent well and a comic genuis

I like your friend, but I get accused of being number 1 a lot

rucksack

esforum wrote: »

in all fairness, this can be taken two ways. Your friend is a bored dick with too much time on his hands if he can spend it doing this

or

hes a man that believes a message sent should be sent well and a comic genuis

I like your friend, but I get accused of being number 1 a lot

He once sent back a smelly sock and said it would be good for their sole. And when he gets X broadband company ads addressed to resident/ his address he cuts out ads for y broadband company from the paper, sticks them on envelope and sends them back to the resident /x broadband company

Grolschevik

rucksack wrote: »

My friend bills them for his time opening the door. So far two out of three have paid

rucksack wrote: »

sent a bill for his time with a complaint. He is very creative. if it is junk mail he sends back some junk from his bin. And one time sent a slice of bread to a church who junk mailed him and told them it was the bread of life...

If you tell enough of them where to go and complain to their bosses it seems to get around and they avoid you.But it seems unwanted callers have more rights in our homes than we do. Some are very cheeky and abusive when refused

rucksack wrote: »

He once sent back a smelly sock and said it would be good for their sole. And when he gets X broadband company ads addressed to resident/ his address he cuts out ads for y broadband company from the paper, sticks them on envelope and sends them back to the resident /x broadband company

Sorry, but [cough] me hole! [cough]/

Finnbar01

I find that cold callers usually only knock once and then leave. So I never answer the door until the third knock or so.