Intoxicated in a public place. Up in District Court.

CrestedFlyer

I received a District Court summons a few days ago for being intoxicated in a public place. I'm 20. I was on a night out with friends and became too drunk. My fiends out me in to a Taxi but I was too drunk to tell him where my home was. He dropped me off at the garda station. I got picked up by my dad but there was no indication that charges would be forthcoming. Has anyone an idea of what to expect? I'm aware I'll probably need a solicitor but I'm more concerned with whether or not there will be left with a criminal record. Or whether I'll be slapped with a just a fine seen as I've never had any trouble with the law. Thanks for any replies.

MarkAnthony

Solicitor will advise but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Pro Hoc Vice

CrestedFlyer wrote: »

I received a District Court summons a few days ago for being intoxicated in a public place. I'm 20. I was on a night out with friends and became too drunk. My fiends out me in to a Taxi but I was too drunk to tell him where my home was. He dropped me off at the garda station. I got picked up by my dad but there was no indication that charges would be forthcoming. Has anyone an idea of what to expect? I'm aware I'll probably need a solicitor but I'm more concerned with whether or not there will be a criminal conviction. Thanks for any replies.

If the district court convicts you yes it will be a criminal conviction. While minor enough it is a conviction. Of course it is open to the Court to make a finding of guilt but to apply section 1 1 (I) and dismiss the charge so therefore no conviction.

Little CuChulainn

For an offence under section 4 you are entitled to be considered for an adult caution. If you have not been offered one then this should be raised with the prosecution, preferable before the court date. There is also the possibility of a fixed charge penalty for the offence but this is probably not an option now.

Canadel

CrestedFlyer wrote: »

I received a District Court summons a few days ago for being intoxicated in a public place.

That's like something I'd expect to read in a Waterford Whispers News article.

Practically everyone is intoxicated in a public place at any given time in Ireland. You had a bit too much and lost cognitive ability fair enough. But a Court summons seems extremely harsh in this case if all you did was roll out of a taxi at a Garda station as stated.

FortySeven

Might be a good idea to take some money with you and offer to pay into the poor box to avoid a conviction.
Dress well, admit your guilt and be humble about it. Tell the judge positives about yourself, point out it is out of character and show you are of good standing. Wouldn't bother with a solicitor unless you are planning to contest the charge.

You need to get a solicitor and find out why you weren't offered an adult caution, you should be entitled to one.
So long as you haven't received one before?

FortySeven

bubblypop wrote: »

You need to get a solicitor and find out why you weren't offered an adult caution, you should be entitled to one.
So long as you haven't received one before?

Wasn't aware of this adult cation. Definitely investigate this first. It does not show in garda vetting so no one will ever know.

Canadel

FortySeven wrote: »

Might be a good idea to take some money with you and offer to pay into the poor box to avoid a conviction.
Dress well, admit your guilt and be humble about it. Tell the judge positives about yourself, point out it is out of character and show you are of good standing. Wouldn't bother with a solicitor unless you are planning to contest the charge.

That's good advice, but from what the Op stated, I really don't see why they should even have to explain any of that. The most upstanding and most decent citizen in the country can have a drink too many on a particular occasion and lose cognitive ability. And that is all the Op has said happened i.e. they failed to remember their address and so the taxi dropped them at a Garda station. I'm flabbergasted (and I never use that word) at how this has resulted in a court summons. In Ireland of all places. Bizarre.

Esel

bubblypop wrote: »

You need to get a solicitor...

This. An expert one.

As you said, you do not want a criminal record.

I lifted a random guy up (lying down, he was) from the middle of a dark road. Totally locked. Waved down a Garda van. They didn't want to know. I said I would report them, whereupon they got out of the van and threw the guy into the back like a sack of potatoes. All in a night's work...

Take the good advice above. Don't be getting up in front of the judge to try to convince him it was all a mishtake (sic).

Next time:

1 Don't drink as much.

2 Have better mates.

3 Have your address printed clearly on a card, wrapped up in the taxi fare.

4 See 1 above.

5 See 2 above.

Allinall

Canadel wrote: »

That's good advice, but from what the Op stated, I really don't see why they should even have to explain any of that. The most upstanding and most decent citizen in the country can have a drink too many on a particular occasion and lose cognitive ability. And that is all the Op has said happened i.e. they failed to remember their address and so the taxi dropped them at a Garda station. I'm flabbergasted (and I never use that word) at how this has resulted in a court summons. In Ireland of all places. Bizarre.

They were a clear danger to themselves, and the taxi driver did the right thing in bringing them to the Garda station.

Our taxes pay for the guards, and they shouldn't be used as a babysitting service.

OP has to realise there are consequences to their actions, and find themselves in court as a result.

And rightly so.

StupidLikeAFox

Esel wrote: »

Next time:

1 Don't drink as much.

2 Have better mates.

3 Have your address printed clearly on a card, wrapped up in the taxi fare.

4 See 1 above.

5 See 2 above.

That made me lol.

seamus

Canadel wrote: »

And that is all the Op has said happened i.e. they failed to remember their address and so the taxi dropped them at a Garda station.

That's drunk beyond drunk tbh. I've been my fair share of completely out of it and never had an incident where I couldn't tell the taxi driver where to go.

The result was hassle for a taxi driver (did he even get paid?) and hassle for the Gardai who had to pick him up and check on him hourly.

Yes, people in Ireland get regularly hammered, but if you're so bad that you need the Gardai to step in and put you in a cell, then there's going to be legal consequences.

I'd be raging with your mates OP. Whatever about someone wandering off on their own to get a taxi, if someone is so hammered that they need to be poured into a cab, then someone else has to go with them. You have to ask yourself if these people really are your friends.

MarkAnthony

OP while I appreciate people here are trying to be helpful, do not think - 'I'll save a few quid and do what randomers told me on boards'. Get a solicitor and go from there. If you take the 'I'll just pitch up and take my chances in my Dad's suit pleading guilty' approach and encounter a DC Judge who hasn't had their Weetabix that morning you could be in for a nasty surprise.

This has the potential to be very minor or potentially very serious if not handled properly. If you wake up one morning with painful spots on it you don't take a pair of scissors to the area you proceed to a Doctor with some alacrity. Do the same here with a solicitor.

Canadel

Allinall wrote: »

They were a clear danger to themselves, and the taxi driver did the right thing in bringing them to the Garda station.

Our taxes pay for the guards, and they shouldn't be used as a babysitting service.

OP has to realise there are consequences to their actions, and find themselves in court as a result.

And rightly so.

A danger to themselves but not really anyone else. I wonder why the taxi driver didn't bring them to a hospital then?

The only action committed by the Op was to make the mistake of drinking more than they could handle and as a result losing basic cognitive ability, something a lot of people have done at least once in their life-time. The consequences to that should be help and assistance, and an experience that hopefully the person can learn from.

People supporting this court summons are no different than those who support drug addicts being locked up.

seamus wrote: »

That's drunk beyond drunk tbh. I've been my fair share of completely out of it and never had an incident where I couldn't tell the taxi driver where to go.

The result was hassle for a taxi driver (did he even get paid?) and hassle for the Gardai who had to pick him up and check on him hourly.

Yes, people in Ireland get regularly hammered, but if you're so bad that you need the Gardai to step in and put you in a cell, then there's going to be legal consequences.

It's still extremely harsh and entirely disproportionate to end up with a court summons over it imo. An adult caution would be more than appropriate here. And that is the real question tbh. Why wasn't one issued?

tayto lover

I think he was brought to court because the garda had to summons him if they put him in a cell to sober up. They would have been in trouble if he choked on his own vomit in the cell. You would have people saying they assaulted him etc.

How bad are you if you can't tell someone your name and address? Far too much drink imo.
I hope he learns his lesson and gets off lightly this time.

1 - You don't need a solicitor (The solicitors here aren't going to tell you that)
2 - Wear a suit and look as presentable as possible
3 - Make sure to talk to the guard beforehand and apologise profusely
4 - Make sure the judge knows you are extremely sorry about everything, with your decorum and facial expressions. I.e. do not smile
5 - Address the judge as "Judge" in order to not piss them off - Yes Judge, no Judge etc and don't speak unless asked to speak.
6 - Most importantly, bring no less than €400 in cash to make a donation, if you are unable to make a donation then and there they can convict you
7 - Don't worry, I've seen this a hundred times and never once heard of a conviction being applied for a first, non-violent offence for drunk and disorderly (I'm assuming you weren't giving the guards dogs abuse at the station...and even then it would be extremely unlikely)
8 - Learn your lesson.

Sergio Georgini

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

1 - You don't need a solicitor (The solicitors here aren't going to tell you that)
2 - Wear a suit and look as presentable as possible
3 - Make sure to talk to the guard beforehand and apologise profusely
4 - Make sure the judge knows you are extremely sorry about everything, with your decorum and facial expressions. I.e. do not smile
5 - Address the judge as "Judge" in order to not piss them off - Yes Judge, no Judge etc and don't speak unless asked to speak.
6 - Most importantly, bring no less than €400 in cash to make a donation, if you are unable to make a donation then and there they can convict you
7 - Don't worry, I've seen this a hundred times and never once heard of a conviction being applied for a first, non-violent offence for drunk and disorderly (I'm assuming you weren't giving the guards dogs abuse at the station...and even then it would be extremely unlikely)
8 - Learn your lesson.

All great advice if you actually have to go to court.

OP, have you received an adult caution in the past?
If not, get in touch with the local superintendent to find out why you didn't receive one.

CrestedFlyer

Firstly I would like to thank everyone for their replies. Secondly I'm fully aware that my actions have consequences, I'm not trying to get away from that.It's the first, and last time, I've ever been that drunk The taxi driver in question did get his cab fair and also a full apology from my the next day for any inconvenience I caused him. I'm also fully aware that I took up the gardai's time. I wasn't there for very long about 1 hour but still I'm very aware they had much better things to attend to than me.
I'd like to confirm also that I received no adult caution previously, so I'm unsure as to why I didn't receive one as some have pointed out already. I'm not naive enough to think I can take this situation lightly and fully intend get a solicitor. I'll plead guilty and hope they allow me to make a donation to the court poor box in return for not having a record.
Edit: Im not sure if this is relevant but I'd thought I'd include it anyway. My Dad, when picking me up, asked one of the garda was asked would there be any charges, he said there wouldn't and told my father to just take me home.

Little CuChulainn

CrestedFlyer wrote: »

Firstly I would like to thank everyone for their replies. Secondly I'm fully aware that my actions have consequences, I'm not trying to get away from that.It's the first, and last time, I've ever been that drunk The taxi driver in question did get his cab fair and also a full apology from my the next day for any inconvenience I caused him. I'm also fully aware that I took up the gardai's time. I wasn't there for very long about 1 hour but still I'm very aware they had much better things to attend to than me.
I'd like to confirm also that I received no adult caution previously, so I'm unsure as to why I didn't receive one as some have pointed out already. I'm not naive enough to think I can take this situation lightly and fully intend get a solicitor. I'll plead guilty and hope they allow me to make a donation to the court poor box in return for not having a record.
Edit: Im not sure if this is relevant but I'd thought I'd include it anyway. My Dad, when picking me up, asked one of the garda was asked would there be any charges, he said there wouldn't and told my father to just take me home.

If you have never been cautioned before then you are legally entitled to be at least considered for an adult caution on your first offence. You really should have your solicitor look into this.

feargale

Esel wrote: »

Take the good advice above. Don't be getting up in front of the judge to try to convince him it was all a mishtake (sic) (hic)

FYP

CrestedFlyer

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If you have never been cautioned before then you are legally entitled to be at least considered for an adult caution on your first offence. You really should have your solicitor look into this.

Talked with the solicitor and he said that's true but because I was processed, I was never offered one. Seems strange to me as it would take up a lot less time than appearing in court.

Little CuChulainn

CrestedFlyer wrote: »

Talked with the solicitor and he said that's true but because I was processed, I was never offered one. Seems strange to me as it would take up a lot less time than appearing in court.

You weren't offered one but you should have been. I presume he has been in contact with the prosecuting member to arrange for the caution by now?

punisher5112

I thought there was a fixed penalty charge they could give.

Little CuChulainn

punisher5112 wrote: »

I thought there was a fixed penalty charge they could give.

There is.

punisher5112

Maybe a little more to the story.

Give lip and threaten and kick off oh and the bonus leave the cell in sh1t.

????

CrestedFlyer

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You weren't offered one but you should have been. I presume he has been in contact with the prosecuting member to arrange for the caution by now?

I talked to him today, breifly, and he said he was going to talk with the garda. He just took the details of the night and said he'd be in touch. Is there any reason as why I wouldn't have been offered a caution, aside from receiving one in the past, which I haven't?

Little CuChulainn

CrestedFlyer wrote: »

I talked to him today, breifly, and he said he was going to talk with the garda. He just took the details of the night and said he'd be in touch. Is there any reason as why I wouldn't have been offered a caution, aside from receiving one in the past, which I haven't?

Yes, if you refused one, or, as in many such cases, told the Garda to "F**k off"

CrestedFlyer

CrestedFlyer wrote: »

I talked to him today, breifly, and he said he was going to talk with the garda. He just took the details of the night and said he'd be in touch. Is there any reason as why I wouldn't have been offered a caution, aside from receiving one in the past, which I haven't?

Yeah, they're under no obligation and I'm sure they're not nearly motivated enough at 3am after babysitting some young drunkard for a few hours to explain in detail his legal options before he leaves.

Little CuChulainn

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

Yeah, they're under no obligation and I'm sure they're not nearly motivated enough at 3am after babysitting some young drunkard for a few hours to explain in detail his legal options before he leaves.

They are under an obligation to offer it if it has not been offered before. Only a Superintendent or above can reject an applicant.

Little CuChulainn

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They are under an obligation to offer it if it has not been offered before. Only a Superintendent or above can reject an applicant.

Even if the person is still under the influence? I don't doubt that they are under an "obligation" to offer it, it's just I've actually never heard of it being offered.

Sergio Georgini

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

Even if the person is still under the influence? I don't doubt that they are under an "obligation" to offer it, it's just I've actually never heard of it being offered.

They won't be released if they are under the influence.

GM228

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They are under an obligation to offer it if it has not been offered before. Only a Superintendent or above can reject an applicant.

They are not obliged to offer one if they believe it is not appropriate, having regard to the circumstances of the offence or the antecedents of the person.

In other to be eligible for the caution the OP

• must admit the offence
  
• must understand the significance of a caution
  
• must give an informed consent to being cautioned.

Has the above been established?

Also if so intoxicated is it even possible to satisfy the above requirements?

CrestedFlyer

GM228 wrote: »

They are not obliged to offer one if they believe it is not appropriate, having regard to the circumstances of the offence or the antecedents of the person.

In other to be eligible for the caution the OP

• must admit the offence
  
• must understand the significance of a caution
  
• must give an informed consent to being cautioned.

Has the above been established?

Also if so intoxicated is it even possible to satisfy the above requirements?

I was just about to say what would be the point of having it apply to Section 4 of the criminal justice act if the person is already intoxicated and would therefore be unable to respond appropriately. What about giving one the day after the incident? Is that possible?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

GM228

Fred Swanson wrote: »

They can give one at any point afterwards.

Correct, but they are not obliged to as they ultimately still retain discretion to prosecute based on the circumstances of the offence or the antecedents of the person involved.

feargale

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

1 - You don't need a solicitor (The solicitors here aren't going to tell you that)

Indeed, it is not in the solicitor's interest to say so. But suppose the guard makes an allegation or an exaggeration which is totally unexpected. What does OP do then? A solicitor will know how to handle it ( probably tell the judge that he didn't expect this allegation and would like an opportunity, maybe an adjournment, to take further instructions). That is one of a hundred possible imponderables. Yes nine times out of ten this will be fine without a solicitor. But one can be a penny wise and a pound foolish.

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

7 - Don't worry, I've seen this a hundred times and never once heard of a conviction being applied for a first, non-violent offence for drunk and disorderly (I'm assuming you weren't giving the guards dogs abuse at the station...and even then it would be extremely unlikely)

The offence seems to be drunk and incapable which does not carry a prison sentence. OP could clarify. But anyway OP seems anxious not to get a conviction recorded.

Pro Hoc Vice

feargale wrote: »

Indeed, it is not in the solicitor's interest to say so. But suppose the guard makes an allegation or an exaggeration which is totally unexpected. What does OP do then? A solicitor will know how to handle it ( probably tell the judge that he didn't expect this allegation and would like an opportunity, maybe an adjournment, to take further instructions). That is one of a hundred possible imponderables. Yes nine times out of ten this will be fine without a solicitor. But one can be a penny wise and a pound foolish.



The offence seems to be drunk and incapable which does not carry a prison sentence. OP could clarify. But anyway OP seems anxious not to get a conviction recorded.

A fine is a conviction.

feargale

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

A fine is a conviction.

Fine, as in a fine, is a noun.

Fine, as in my post, is an adjective

Pro Hoc Vice

feargale wrote: »

Fine, as in a fine, is a noun.

Fine, as in my post, is an adjective

I never thought that, I may have misunderstood you and last sentence but I assumed you made comment about jail time and then comment about the OP's wanting to avoid conviction and I took that to mean only a jail sentence was a conviction, which surprisingly is often what people think.

nuac

How drunk do you have to be so as not to know where you are staying?

1. Consult a solicitor who practises in the court to which you are summoned. Take your solicitor's advice. DJs can differ on their views.

2. You have apologised to the taxi driver.

3 Apologise to the Garda concerned.

4 Find out from Garda and/or taxi driver if you offended anyone else, or damaged any property. If so sort it out before hearing

Good luck

feargale

feargale wrote: »

Indeed, it is not in the solicitor's interest to say so. But suppose the guard makes an allegation or an exaggeration which is totally unexpected. What does OP do then? A solicitor will know how to handle it ( probably tell the judge that he didn't expect this allegation and would like an opportunity, maybe an adjournment, to take further instructions). That is one of a hundred possible imponderables. Yes nine times out of ten this will be fine without a solicitor. But one can be a penny wise and a pound foolish.

How many times have you seen or heard of this happening? Out of curiosity...

feargale

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

How many times have you seen or heard of this happening? Out of curiosity...

You mean something unexpected cropping up? I don't know how many times, but more than once.

Canadel

nuac wrote: »

How drunk do you have to be so as not to know where you are staying?

A lot. But like always with alcohol, it depends on the person.

It's quite harsh to punish someone simply because they had too much alcohol and lost cognitive ability, whereas somebody else who had the same amount of alcohol might have been fine and able to recite their life story and run home without any problem. The Op is basically being punished for being a lightweight. It's perverse really.

Esel

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

How many times have you seen or heard of this happening? Out of curiosity...

Less than hundreds of times... :rolleyes:

Who needs a solicitor? It's all a game.

Pro Hoc Vice

Canadel wrote: »

A lot. But like always with alcohol, it depends on the person.

It's quite harsh to punish someone simply because they had too much alcohol and lost cognitive ability, whereas somebody else who had the same amount of alcohol might have been fine and able to recite their life story and run home without any problem. The Op is basically being punished for being a lightweight. It's perverse really.

Just to clarify it is not an offence to be drunk in public. It is on the other hand an offence to be drunk in public and be a danger to yourself or others. The relevant section:

"4.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person to be present in any public place while intoxicated to such an extent as would give rise to a reasonable apprehension that he might endanger himself or any other person in his vicinity."

Such people put a huge strain on many public services, most importantly the Ambulance and Health Service.

While called drunk in a public place it is in fact ""intoxicated” means under the intoxicating influence of any alcoholic drink, drug, solvent or other substance or a combination of substances and cognate words shall be construed accordingly."

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Esel

draiochtanois wrote: »

Those fiends will get out you every time!

FYP

feargale

feargale wrote: »

You mean something unexpected cropping up? I don't know how many times, but more than once.

No, I mean exactly what you described.

Canadel

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Just to clarify it is not an offence to be drunk in public. It is on the other hand an offence to be drunk in public and be a danger to yourself or others. The relevant section:

"4.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person to be present in any public place while intoxicated to such an extent as would give rise to a reasonable apprehension that he might endanger himself or any other person in his vicinity."

Such people put a huge strain on many public services, most importantly the Ambulance and Health Service.

While called drunk in a public place it is in fact ""intoxicated” means under the intoxicating influence of any alcoholic drink, drug, solvent or other substance or a combination of substances and cognate words shall be construed accordingly."

I don't think there is a logical argument for punishing someone with a court summons for losing cognitive ability due to consuming too much alcohol by mistake. It makes zero sense. For most people like the Op, it will probably happen to them once. For those who it happens to more frequently, they obviously have serious problems, mental health or addiction, and require help. The fact is unless these people actually do endanger someone else, they should be treated with care, and not be issued court summons.

Do people who drink too much and hit their head and wake up in hospital on a night out receive a court summons? Should they? I don't think so. Similar to the situation here, I think that would come closer to cruel and unusual punishment than any idea of protecting society and others.

Esel

Canadel wrote: »

I don't think there is a logical argument for punishing someone with a court summons for losing cognitive ability due to consuming too much alcohol by mistake. It makes zero sense. For most people like the Op, it will probably happen to them once. For those who it happens to more frequently, they obviously have serious problems, mental health or addiction, and require help. The fact is unless these people actually do endanger someone else, they should be treated with care, and not be issued court summons.

Do people who drink too much and hit their head and wake up in hospital on a night out receive a court summons? Should they? I don't think so. Similar to the situation here, I think that would come closer to cruel and unusual punishment than any idea of protecting society and others.

Sorry, Judge. I consumed too much alcohol by mistake. It was my first time, honestly. I blame my so-called mates.