How to analyse data from Leaf Spy, when buying a used Leaf

k123456

Hi all

I have found a few demos of Leaf Spy on youtube, but am looking for how to
Analyse Data from Leaf Spy, when buying a used Leaf

In other words how do you see in leaf Spy the batteries are health, and how many Fast charges, uses etc they have had

Apparently , the battery health indicator on the dash can be over-ridden/hacked




Thanks

I don't think the battery health indicator on the dash can be interfered with, I've never heard of it, I am sure it's possible but i don't think anyone can do this yet.

Anyway look in the picture below. The Battery Ahr on a new leaf from late 2013 is 67 ah but can vary between 65 and 67 Ah.

Health can vary from 96-100%. And GIDS on a new battery are 284 but vary too but in the pic below you can see the Ah has fallen to 56 Ah and the health to 80.49%, this is a leaf you'd want to avoid. it would show a loss of one capacity bar on the dash battery health display.

If it looses 10% capacity then reduce 10% from 120 Kms range, 20% health loss reduce 20% from 120 kms range etc to get an idea of the range you have left in that battery.

It shows the amount of fast charges also, I would go for a Leaf with the lowest number of fast charges.

Again the battery in the late 2013 model is a lot better. But ot be safe pick up a 2014+.

Tigger

If there's anyone who is listen to about the leaf (most ev's) it's him

I edited the above, a leaf with a 20% loss would show a loss of 1 capacity bar in the dash battery health display.

BoatMad

An alternative view would be to buy one with the battery close to warranty limits and trash it and get a new pack !!

This seems to be the consensus on myNissanLeaf now.

k123456

I could be wrong , but if Nissan replace a battery under warranty, they replace it , but not with one that gives you 100% capacity, but one which gives you whatever they warranty a battery for , which I think is 80%

BoatMad

k123456 wrote: »

I could be wrong , but if Nissan replace a battery under warranty, they replace it , but not with one that gives you 100% capacity, but one which gives you whatever they warranty a battery for , which I think is 80%

I don't know, but I doubt it. I mean they would to make special batteries for that.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

An alternative view would be to buy one with the battery close to warranty limits and trash it and get a new pack !!

This seems to be the consensus on myNissanLeaf now.

Could take a lot longer to reach the point they agree to change it, meanwhile you got anything up to 30% loss in range.

Worst case is it will cost 5,500 to replace. But the 2014+ should in theory last a pretty long time, it's doing a lot better than the original.

By the time you'd need a new battery anyway the cost could be as much as it costs to replace a tiny prius hybrid battery today !

Here's where it says how many fast charges (QC) and how many normal (L1/L2)

This is not my leaf in the pic above or below.

I have about 150 QC on mine after 34,200 Kms and 1 year 3.5 months. So I am not a frequent visitor at the fast charger, I have the faster AC on-board (optional) charger 6.6 Kw and this means it charges in enough time from regular street chargers that mostly I don't need the fast chargers. But I probably would need them more if I did a lot more longer distance driving but the 6.6 kw means for the majority of the time for my driving I don't need fast chargers.

k123456

Hi Mad Lad, if we take the two screen shots (leaf spy) as an example of a used leaf , which one would be a better buy .

k123456

k123456 wrote: »

Hi Mad Lad, if we take the two screen shots as an example (leaf spy), which one would be a better buy .

I don't understand ? Or maybe it's my brain after 72 hrs of shifts ! :eek:

Time for bed.

lfp

k123456 wrote: »

Hi Mad Lad, if we take the two screen shots (leaf spy) as an example of a used leaf , which one would be a better buy .

Mad Lad can disagree with me when he wakes up, but I wouldn't buy either car based in those figures. I have a 2012 leaf with just over 61,000 kms and the SOH is around 96%.

If buying a good 2nd hand you should aim for mid 90's for SOH and if the car is nearly new I'd expect high 90's.

The car number two reports marginally better battery health (SOH/Hx) and more available capacity (Ahr) and lower voltage difference between the highest and lowest cell unit (16mV vs. 23mV) on approx the same state of charge (SOC) so might be a bit better one of the two. But both seem have lost about 10 percent of their battery capacity.

The values change quite a lot depending on when the car was last rapid charged and if the battery was let to balance properly in the near past so should be taken with a pinch of salt.

lfp

lfp wrote: »

Mad Lad can disagree with me when he wakes up, but I wouldn't buy either car based in those figures. I have a 2012 leaf with just over 61,000 kms and the SOH is around 96%.

If buying a good 2nd hand you should aim for mid 90's for SOH and if the car is nearly new I'd expect high 90's.

I am here but I'm not fully with it that shift always knocks the crap out of me few days I'll be grand.

I wouldn't be expecting much less with only 60,000 kms. With twice the Kms come back to me. Usually you loose bar one after 110-120,000 kms in Ireland/U.K in the MK I.

With the 2014 , 160,000 and you should still have all bars and maybe anything up to 10% loss depending on fast charger usage. same with the MK I battery.

You can get a new battery now anyway so if you could pick up a 2011 cheap and 5,500 K for a battery if needed it would make a seriously good value car.

k123456

Deleted User wrote: »

You can get a new battery now anyway so if you could pick up a 2011 cheap and 5,500 K for a battery if needed it would make a seriously good value car.

Uk seems to be the place for bargains, recently STG has weakened against the Euro, too

2014
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331815904325?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

2011

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182077320656?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

k123456

k123456 wrote: »

Uk seems to be the place for bargains, recently STG has weakened against the Euro, too

2014
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331815904325?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

2011

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182077320656?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The 2014 definitely is a bargain if it checks out and can be gotten for about €10k. The blue one is one of the first models so battery needs a close scrutiny. But for £6k it's a lots of car for the money. Just make they are not dodgy (crashed, finance owned, same as any used car really). I really don't like the upside down photos, hard so see any signs of damage etc. with the pictures inverted. He seems a dealer of some kind.

lfp

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I am here but I'm not fully with it that shift always knocks the crap out of me few days I'll be grand.

I wouldn't be expecting much less with only 60,000 kms. With twice the Kms come back to me. Usually you loose bar one after 110-120,000 kms in Ireland/U.K in the MK I.

With the 2014 , 160,000 and you should still have all bars and maybe anything up to 10% loss depending on fast charger usage. same with the MK I battery.

I wasn't stating the battery in my car was performing well, but compared to the 2nd leaf spy data with 30k miles (50k kms) and SOH of 87% I was backing up my argument neither car seemed to have a healthy battery.

If my car gets to 160,000kms and has a SOH of over 75% I'll be a delighted man....

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

With the 2014 , 160,000 and you should still have all bars and maybe anything up to 10% loss depending on fast charger usage. same with the MK I battery.

Edit to this. Leave out "same with the MK I battery" not fully with it yet.

The MK I battery will have over 10-15% loss at 160,000 kms and quiet possibly more.

lfp

lfp wrote: »

I wasn't stating the battery in my car was performing well, but compared to the 2nd leaf spy data with 30k miles (50k kms) and SOH of 87% I was backing up my argument neither car seemed to have a healthy battery.

If my car gets to 160,000kms and has a SOH of over 75% I'll be a delighted man....

No, The pics were U.S Leafs where it most likely lived in a hot climate, continuous hot temps is not good for the battery.

Some U.K leafs that had a fast charge addiction lost their first bat by 80,000 Kms.

Capacity loss is only a problem when you wish to take a long trip , what used to make 70 miles now cannot. When this becomes a problem then it's time to change, who knows by the time you need a new battery the cost could be 2,500 Euro's or roughly what it costs today.

lfp

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, The pics were U.S Leafs where it most likely lived in a hot climate, continuous hot temps is not good for the battery.

Some U.K leafs that had a fast charge addiction lost their first bat by 80,000 Kms.

Capacity loss is only a problem when you wish to take a long trip , what used to make 70 miles now cannot. When this becomes a problem then it's time to change, who knows by the time you need a new battery the cost could be 2,500 Euro's or roughly what it costs today.

That's going to be the big dilemma. Will it cost 4k to put a new battery in a car worth 3k? By 160,000kms if the car can still do 70km per charge it'll feel like the car is paying for itself 3 times over, whereas paying for a battery brings in a cost. Hopefully I'll be a distance away from that dilemma.

BoatMad

lfp wrote: »

That's going to be the big dilemma. Will it cost 4k to put a new battery in a car worth 3k? By 160,000kms if the car can still do 70km per charge it'll feel like the car is paying for itself 3 times over, whereas paying for a battery brings in a cost. Hopefully I'll be a distance away from that dilemma.

the great thing though is given the lack of mechanicals and the good overall reliability , putting in a battery will be like getting a new car

we will also see the after market get into EVs, local mechanics tooling up etc , so the options will present themselves in time

lfp

lfp wrote: »

That's going to be the big dilemma. Will it cost 4k to put a new battery in a car worth 3k? By 160,000kms if the car can still do 70km per charge it'll feel like the car is paying for itself 3 times over, whereas paying for a battery brings in a cost. Hopefully I'll be a distance away from that dilemma.

If the car meets your needs then it's not an issue, capacity loss is only an issue when it can't meet your needs.

I see nothing wrong with installing a new battery if it means a perfectly good car for another 200,000-250,000 kms.

No engine to wear out, no gearbox, belts etc etc. bearings can wear in the EV and suspension as normal but all this is not really a major repair.