Gas Appliance Installation - Prices

rampantbunny

Just got a quote for a gas appliance installation. Included is price for two 34kg propane cylinders (285) and a 2 cylinder gas regulator (150).
Want to price these items myself as cost of cylinders on web seem a bit lower than above.

Is there a difference between calor and flogas cylinders?
What sort of item is a regulator? Cost?

rampantbunny

Just in case anyone is thinking of responding; I got this sorted. Sourcing the regulator/changeover and head cylinders myself. There was a decent margin on these.

Tom44

Just nullified your house insurance (Indefinitely) till it's certified by an approved RGII I'm afraid.
A pain I know, but thats the law.
And will be used by insurance Co. to avoide any unasotated claim.

Registered installers do not get to keep all the money you pay.
30-40% goes in tax & Vat (13.5% Vat & 23%Tax min.)
Insurance to a minimum €6,50 0,000
+ van & overheads.

"John Joe" from the pub does not have these overheads.



But nobody wants to know.

Tom44

Tom44 wrote: »

Just nullified your house insurance (Indefinitely) till it's certified by an approved RGII I'm afraid.
A pain I know, but thats the law.
And will be used by insurance Co. to avoide any unasotated claim.

Registered installers do not get to keep all the money you pay.
30-40% goes in tax & Vat (13.5% Vat & 23%Tax min.)
Insurance to a minimum €6,50 0,000
+ van & overheads.

"John Joe" from the pub does not have these overheads.



But nobody wants to know.

Nice rant, better out than in but the OP hasn't mentioned doing any gaswork only buying the changeover kit.

rampantbunny

Tom44 wrote: »

Just nullified your house insurance (Indefinitely) till it's certified by an approved RGII I'm afraid.
A pain I know, but thats the law.
And will be used by insurance Co. to avoide any unasotated claim.

Registered installers do not get to keep all the money you pay.
30-40% goes in tax & Vat (13.5% Vat & 23%Tax min.)
Insurance to a minimum €6,50 0,000
+ van & overheads.

"John Joe" from the pub does not have these overheads.

But nobody wants to know.

Slightly on the sensationalist side Tom, but I know you didn't intend it that way.
I only bought the items myself after a chat with the RGII guys. They'd no problem with me sourcing products myself and admitted they do have a margin on the materials.
Some customers might consider the margins not worth the hassle of having to shop around ,but I saw the cost of the products approximately doubling the cost of the overall installation so I looked into it a bit more. Anyway, they've got the work and we're all happy.

Tom44

No offence ever intended mate 👍

Just hate insurance companys using every loophole to get off the hook.
Which is common practice.

JustTheOne

Tom44 wrote: »

No offence ever intended mate ðŸ‘

Just hate insurance companys using every loophole to get off the hook.
Which is common practice.

And totally justified when it comes to gas work.

DGOBS

Slightly on the sensationalist side Tom, but I know you didn't intend it that way.
I only bought the items myself after a chat with the RGII guys. They'd no problem with me sourcing products myself and admitted they do have a margin on the materials.
Some customers might consider the margins not worth the hassle of having to shop around ,but I saw the cost of the products approximately doubling the cost of the overall installation so I looked into it a bit more. Anyway, they've got the work and we're all happy.

The down side here, as always, is when something goes wrong, and you call your installer back, they will just shrug and tell you that they didn't supply the parts and it becomes your problem to deal with.

Markup on parts is there for a reason, and supplying your own is not always the best idea as it's not just for handiness.

Also, you will find certain items (especially when looking at LPG regulators) are not always 'cheapest is best' either, as we have all seen recalls and safety alerts on some 'internet shopper beware!'

rampantbunny

DGOBS wrote: »

The down side here, as always, is when something goes wrong, and you call your installer back, they will just shrug and tell you that they didn't supply the parts and it becomes your problem to deal with.

Markup on parts is there for a reason, and supplying your own is not always the best idea as it's not just for handiness.

Also, you will find certain items (especially when looking at LPG regulators) are not always 'cheapest is best' either, as we have all seen recalls and safety alerts on some 'internet shopper beware!'

Of course I agree for most cases this is true. In this instance the installer was quoting for the very same items I sourced (I ran them past him).
If a problem does arise and the installers response is to shrug, thats not exactly professional..but bad apples in every basket I'm sure.

Tom44

rampantbunny wrote: »

Of course I agree for most cases this is true. In this instance the installer was quoting for the very same items I sourced (I ran them past him).
If a problem does arise and the installers response is to shrug, thats not exactly professional..but bad apples in every basket I'm sure.

I'd shrug too if a part supplied by client burnt their house down and wasn't due to bad workmanship by myself.

Believe me, I'm not trying to be dramatic
Yes I could source parts cheaper over the internet, but personally I perfer a simple chain on a claim. (Not that it's ever happened)

Customer, to local shop, to distributor, to importer, to manafacture.
Try sue a website

All this is theoretical, except my low opinion and knowledge of insurance companys.

Yes I do buy a lot off the internet, but not something that I can't personally guarantee to customers.

But that's just me.

Customer sources their own LPG regulator, Rgi installed regulator and signs off on the install not noticing the regulator is adjustable, later the regulator is accidentally adjusted to over gas the appliance, customer can't light his hob so he lights a bit of news paper to see if it would help and blows himself up.

Who's to blame, customer, Rgii or suppliers who sold the wrong part accidentally, the above isn't fiction as something similar to this happened and it ended in a Kaboom.

Sleeper12

rampantbunny wrote:

Of course I agree for most cases this is true. In this instance the installer was quoting for the very same items I sourced (I ran them past him). If a problem does arise and the installers response is to shrug, thats not exactly professional..but bad apples in every basket I'm sure.

How could the installer be a bad apples for not standing over something he didn't supply?

I supply and fit showers. If something fails its up to me to sort it especially if the manufacturer or supplier won't stand over it.
If the homeowner supplies the shower and pay me just to install it then my responsibility ends when I fit the shower. If the shower needs replacing a few weeks later due to a fault then I would charge to fit it a second time. The margin on materials covers cases like this.
He most definitely would not be a bad apple

rampantbunny

Tom44 wrote: »

I'd shrug too if a part supplied by client burnt their house down and wasn't due to bad workmanship by myself.

Believe me, I'm not trying to be dramatic
Yes I could source parts cheaper over the internet, but personally I perfer a simple chain on a claim. (Not that it's ever happened)

Customer, to local shop, to distributor, to importer, to manafacture.
Try sue a website

All this is theoretical, except my low opinion and knowledge of insurance companys.

Yes I do buy a lot off the internet, but not something that I can't personally guarantee to customers.

But that's just me.

I didn't purchase from t'internet. But if I did I'd expect the very same protection as if I'd purchased locally. Other readers of this thread should not be led to (scared into) thinking that they have to buy from the installer. I'm not implying you're doing this but there is a whiff of it throughout some posts.
There are various well known hardware stores with an internet presence for example. Everyone is a consumer and everyone should be able to shop around.
If the consumer is stupid enough to buy from an obscure website hosted in a far off land and they have issues, well I wouldn't have much sympathy. Similarly if they just want a cheaper or nicer looking part. Safety first.

So finally, I'll reconfirm that the part I sourced was the EXACT SAME product as what was being supplied by installer (same product code, manufacturer).

Sleeper12

rampantbunny wrote:

So finally, I'll reconfirm that the part I sourced was the EXACT SAME product as what was being supplied by installer (same product code, manufacturer).

If it fails for any reason do you still think that the installer is a bad Apple if he shrugs & says you need to go back to where you bought it?

I'm definitely not trying to scare anyone. I supply and fit or I can just fit. I really don't mind but I won't & shouldn't be expected to stand over something that I didn't supply.

I'm really not trying to argue with you but I believe that you made a mistake implying the the installer has any responsibility for materials that he didn't supply.

JustTheOne

Sleeper12 wrote: »

How could the installer be a bad apples for not standing over something he didn't supply?

I supply and fit showers. If something fails its up to me to sort it especially if the manufacturer or supplier won't stand over it.
If the homeowner supplies the shower and pay me just to install it then my responsibility ends when I fit the shower. If the shower needs replacing a few weeks later due to a fault then I would charge to fit it a second time. The margin on materials covers cases like this.
He most definitely would not be a bad apple

Any chance you could recommend someone who fits shower trays and a bit of tiling, and use classi seal or similar when doing the job?

Trying to find someone but proving impossible!

Sleeper12

JustTheOne wrote:

Any chance you could recommend someone who fits shower trays and a bit of tiling, and use classi seal or similar when doing the job?

JustTheOne wrote:

Trying to find someone but proving impossible!

I have never met a tiler that is a good plumber & I've never met a plumber that is a good tiler. Each man to his own trade.

If you need this job done then you've seen what a bad job can do. So you need to look for a good plumber & a good tiler

Dtp1979

JustTheOne wrote: »

I know, sounds easier that it is!

What location are u

JustTheOne

Seen someone here the other day looking for something similar done and mentioning the classi seal stuff. Looked it up, seems like a good idea but never heard of it.

DGOBS

I didn't purchase from t'internet. But if I did I'd expect the very same protection as if I'd purchased locally. Other readers of this thread should not be led to (scared into) thinking that they have to buy from the installer. I'm not implying you're doing this but there is a whiff of it throughout some posts.
There are various well known hardware stores with an internet presence for example. Everyone is a consumer and everyone should be able to shop around.
If the consumer is stupid enough to buy from an obscure website hosted in a far off land and they have issues, well I wouldn't have much sympathy. Similarly if they just want a cheaper or nicer looking part. Safety first.

So finally, I'll reconfirm that the part I sourced was the EXACT SAME product as what was being supplied by installer (same product code, manufacturer).

No one here is scare mongering, only trying to impart free sensible advise, we are professionals, you have come to ask our opinion, but your dissatisfied with the answer.

Warranty is supplied to you by your installer when he supplies the parts (yes, he will deal with the supplier) in your case he wouldn't, and thats not bad apples, that's running a business (properly). I am only describing to you why installers would mark up the items.

Sleeper12

JustTheOne wrote:

Seen someone here the other day looking for something similar done and mentioning the classi seal stuff. Looked it up, seems like a good idea but never heard of it.

It's the best job. Done right it will never leak

rampantbunny

Sleeper12 wrote: »

How could the installer be a bad apples for not standing over something he didn't supply?

I supply and fit showers. If something fails its up to me to sort it especially if the manufacturer or supplier won't stand over it.
If the homeowner supplies the shower and pay me just to install it then my responsibility ends when I fit the shower. If the shower needs replacing a few weeks later due to a fault then I would charge to fit it a second time. The margin on materials covers cases like this.
He most definitely would not be a bad apple

DGOBS wrote: »

The down side here, as always, is when something goes wrong, and you call your installer back, they will just shrug and tell you that they didn't supply the parts and it becomes your problem to deal with.

rampantbunny wrote: »

Of course I agree for most cases this is true. In this instance the installer was quoting for the very same items I sourced (I ran them past him).
If a problem does arise and the installers response is to shrug, that's not exactly professional..but bad apples in every basket I'm sure.

I want to step back up the thread a little because I think things are veering off a bit.
I've interpreted the phrase 'something goes wrong' as 'anything goes wrong'. The 'anything' would include problems not necessarily associated with the part supplied by the client. If a client supplying a part is used as a scapegoat for all issues then I deem that less than professional. I wouldn't expect this to be the norm among installers, therefore by popular convention that tradesman IMO is a 'bad apple'.
Sleeper12...you install a client supplied shower tray. Let's say a leak develops where you attached the waste..do you blame the shower tray even though it is more than likely you haven't sealed properly, or do you take a look, determine what's wrong and work from there with the client? Bad apples would immediately blame the shower tray...the customer can't argue as they know no different.
People might say this is not a realistic scenario but I'd wager that most of us have come across this sort of thing in one shape or another, or at least heard stories of similar.


IF the problem is proved to be the fault of the specific client supplied part then common sense prevails. As per your example, the client sorts it out. This is where I think most responders are concentrating...who could argue. But I think this is down to the different perspectives on display on the thread; there's the customer/consumer, and then there's the installers/tradesmen. We view things differently.

DGOBS wrote: »

No one here is scare mongering, only trying to impart free sensible advise, we are professionals, you have come to ask our opinion, but your dissatisfied with the answer.

Warranty is supplied to you by your installer when he supplies the parts (yes, he will deal with the supplier) in your case he wouldn't, and thats not bad apples, that's running a business (properly). I am only describing to you why installers would mark up the items.

I don't actually know what the answer I'm dissatisfied with is DGOBS
The bad apples thing - hope I've clarified above what I meant.

Incidentally, in-case anyone is interested, the margin on the regulator was 100%. So I suppose the margin is large enough to cover a full replacement part if it does go wrong.

Sleeper12

rampantbunny wrote:

I don't actually know what the answer I'm dissatisfied with is DGOBS The bad apples thing - hope I've clarified above what I meant.

As I said I wasn't looking for a row. I did take offence to the bad apples bit I suppose. The point that was being made was if the materials that you supply fail (as in they are faulty) then you couldn't expect the installer to do anything about it. You would be on your own to sort it out yourself. If it was down to being installed wrong I would expect the installer to stand over his own work.

A friend of mine was to supply & fit a new bath. The homeowner could get the bath 10 euro cheaper so the plumber quoted for install only & homeowner bought the bath himself. Bath was installed. A bath comes with a film of plastic over it. Plumber pealed plastic back enough for tiler to tile. Plumber comes back 2 days later to finish the job. Removed plastic & filled the bath. There was a leak. Turnes out there was a tiny chip out of the bath. They found the chip stuck to the removed plastic. Plumber says that he should go back to the supplier. Suppliers send someone out to look. They agree it's a manifacture fault & are happy to give a new bath.
Home owner thought that the plumber was supposed to take out this bath & install another one for free. Plumber quite rightly walked away never to be seen again. He's not a bad Apple. Had plumber supplied the bath then he would have had to fit 2nd bath for free.

You've explained what you actually meant & I now understand where you are coming from. The true story above is where I was coming from.
All tradesman should stand over their work. I totally agree with you there.

slystallone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/99233097#Comment_99233097

I'm in similar situation. Curious about the 34kg cylinders. Do you usually get them delivered due to the weight or are they ok to lift in and out of the car?