New'sh Job - Still no contract

Gettingtogrips

Is this the way in Ireland? I have spent the majority of my working life abroad. I returned in 2015 and started temping in Dublin. During one of the temp jobs I was offered a 'permanent position'. I took it. The job is working for an individual. His wife was helping him before me. She's still "helping". I am being paid through the company that employs him but everything else is between them and me. The issue is I have been given no contract and there seems to be no intention of ever giving me one. At times I think, OK, sod you, it means I can walk out on you any time I like and I can tell you, I would like. But, for the moment, the money is very useful. I can't stand the wife's way of "helping". She's a hindrance, not a help but that's a side issue. It's the contract bit that is really peeing me off. Aside from the fact that it means they can ditch me any time they like and me them, is there a legal issue here folks? Thanks.

MrBobbyZ

Have you requested a contract from the company that pays you? That is where the contract should come from, no? If the employer has failed to provide you with a contract of employment I don't see how that equals "they can ditch me any time they like", depending on how long you are with them you may have rights here.
More questions: Do you receive a payslip? If so, from whom? Are you paying tax? I only ask these because I remember a friend in a similar situation who after 2 years working for someone found out their employer had not paid any PRSI or even registered them as an employee.

Gettingtogrips

Yes MrBobbyZ, time and again, I've asked for a contract without any result. And, I know they can be downloaded off the net. Indeed, the company that pays me (yes I get a payslip and pay ALL the taxes ever month) forwarded us a sample contract. (The company that pays me also pays him a salary and other expenses and they take my salary out of what they pay him for his professional fees). The company that pays me say as they are not my employer, it's not up to them to give me a contract. But, for some reason, Boss not willing to enter into a contract with me and I have no clue why. I can't really explain where I work as I don't want to reveal too much about who I work for. I have worked for him for 6 months (not including the time I was working for him through an agency). If I have some legal entitlements eg. to be paid for Bank Holidays, to have holidays and get paid for them and to be sure I can't just be turfed out on the street without warning then I guess there is no loss to me by not having a contract, is there?

Irish_Elect_Eng

It sounds like there is a disagreement between your employer "the company" and your "client" as to who is your employer. But to be honest it does not matter what they think, the person that puts the money in your account is your employer, all other supervisory and reporting arrangement are pretty much irrelevant.

Politely ask them to get together and sort the details out.

Or perhaps consult with someone that understands employment law and then provide them with the details of what they need to do to regularize your contract.

MrBobbyZ

As far as I am aware, as long as you are paid regular wage from an employer you have a "contract". What you don't have is a written statement of the terms of employment (ie pay rates, date employment commenced, nature of work required etc) which you are legally entitled to.
Regardless of that, your rights as an employee(Public Holidays,Holidays,Holiday Pay, unfair dismissal), protected by law, are largely unaffected. I would be a bit more worried about a potential scenario where both the company that pays you and your "boss" claim you work for the other. I am no expert in this, my experience is limited to running my own business (140 employees), and I have never paid someone else's employee on a regular basis!
Contact NERA and explain your situation, they should be able to point out who is responsible for your contact.

Gettingtogrips

Thanks Irish_Elect_Eng. Neither party are stupid or unaware of the law but I believe the "client" as you refer to him, just does not want to give me a contract and what I don't understand is why. There has to be a cash reason for it as that is his raison d'etre in everything he does! For example, is there a time limit beyond which they must give me a paid holiday and could it be that he will tell me my services are no longer needed just before that time kicks in. That is the way I am seeing it. I had last Thursday (Holy Thursday) off (my first holiday day in six months) so it will be interesting to see if I get paid for that or not. I work four days a week.

Gettingtogrips

MrBobbyZ wrote: »

As far as I am aware, as long as you are paid regular wage from an employer you have a "contract". What you don't have is a written statement of the terms of employment (ie pay rates, date employment commenced, nature of work required etc) which you are legally entitled to.
Regardless of that, your rights as an employee(Public Holidays,Holidays,Holiday Pay, unfair dismissal), protected by law, are largely unaffected. I would be a bit more worried about a potential scenario where both the company that pays you and your "boss" claim you work for the other. I am no expert in this, my experience is limited to running my own business (140 employees), and I have never paid someone else's employee on a regular basis!
Contact NERA and explain your situation, they should be able to point out who is responsible for your contact.

Thanks Mr BobbyZ, as I said to 'Irish_Elect_Eng', it will be interesting to see how I am paid at the end of this month as I had Holy Thursday off. I somehow expect there will be issues relating to me taking that day off bearing in mind that I work four days per week and to quote Mrs Boss "you'll only be working three days a week for three weeks" - what with being off for St Patrick's Day, having last Thursday off and being off today.

toadfly

You are entitled to your holidays from your start date, 20 days a year based on a five day week along with 9 public holidays.

Gettingtogrips

toadfly wrote: »

You are entitled to your holidays from your start date, 20 days a year based on a five day week along with 9 public holidays.

.
That's grand then. Hopefully, it will be so next week when I get my pay slip.

starlit

Are you happy in the job so far? If you don't get a contract after a month or longer might be best to leave. Can't really work in a job without a contract even if the contract was for 3 months you have nothing to go on they can take advantage of your hours, pay and holidays etc. How can you be sure the job is secure?

Gettingtogrips

toadfly wrote: »

You are entitled to your holidays from your start date, 20 days a year based on a five day week along with 9 public holidays.

doovdela wrote: »

Are you happy in the job so far? If you don't get a contract after a month or longer might be best to leave. Can't really work in a job without a contract even if the contract was for 3 months you have nothing to go on they can take advantage of your hours, pay and holidays etc. How can you be sure the job is secure?

Hi Doovdela, no I'm not happy in it, but it's just about tolerable enough that I'd like to survive in it for another four months and then I'd be happy to leave. I have a long commute each day and it will be longer when I move in about a month's time. Meanwhile, because of all this with the contract, I am making no real effort, frankly, to win them over. I'm over 60 so I can just about afford to be like that - it's not a career for me and its definitely not secure. However, they are such a peculiar couple that I think they know they'd find it difficult enough to replace me and it would cost them which would be a deterrent in itself - ie. advertising, etc. (I don't mean they'd have to or indeed would pay me to leave!!!) Of course, when I do leave, I am not expecting a reference either so if I am going to look for another job, I'm not sure how I'm going to explain why I don't have one. It's just as well I am not starting out in my career as this would be a really awful place to be.

Stheno

Whose name is on your payslips? Is it the client company or the man and woman you work for?

Gettingtogrips

Stheno wrote: »

Whose name is on your payslips? Is it the client company or the man and woman you work for?

Interesting question! Just checked and the man I work for is not mentioned at all. It's just my name and the Company through whom I am paid. Under Department Name it says Balance Sheet / Inco.. the rest is covered over by the pay advice details. So, I suppose you'll say I am not therefore employed by the man I work for but by the Company who pays me? Their HR Department denies that I am employed by them and says they are just facilitating my salary.

Stheno

Gettingtogrips wrote: »

Interesting question! Just checked and the man I work for is not mentioned at all. It's just my name and the Company through whom I am paid. Under Department Name it says Balance Sheet / Inco.. the rest is covered over by the pay advice details. So, I suppose you'll say I am not therefore employed by the man I work for but by the Company who pays me? Their HR Department denies that I am employed by them and says they are just facilitating my salary.

Do you submit timesheets to anyone?

Gettingtogrips

Stheno wrote: »

Whose name is on your payslips? Is it the client company or the man and woman you work for?

No Stheno, I don't submit timesheets.

Stheno

Gettingtogrips wrote: »

No Stheno, I don't submit timesheets.

It all sounds a bit strange to be honest, it's certainly not normal