Grass tight anyone?

blue5000

Grass growth is fairly slow around here the last few weeks. Very cold and dry wind. There is a bit of re-growth on re-seeded ground that had a high cover before it was grazed and got slurry after grazing, but I reckon some cattle will have to come back in. Half bag of urea went out last week on earliest grazed grass. Unlike 2013 have loads of silage left, but wouldn't like a repeat of that yr either.

Never wrestle with pigs

Same as you. Out last two weeks on dry ground. Another week of grass if It dosnt get to wet and back in for a few weeks. Plenty of silage. I'd say we had more growth Christmas week than this week.

On the plus side, cows bulling like mad. Iv never seen them cuming around as quick.

darragh_haven

All cattle are out 2 weeks, but regrowth is definitely slow. So as the ground is still tender, and all this rain forcast till monday/Tuesday, we housed 50 heifers and left the bullocks out but spilt them into groups of 20 or less.
This should allow build up of grass for when the heifers are let out again. All slurry and urea is out so it should be set up to grow once we get a bit of warmth.
Ground that got slurry 3 weeks ago is the stuff that's coming back best

whelan2

Its still only March, wont worry for a while yet

darragh_haven

whelan2 wrote: »

Its still only March, wont worry for a while yet

But but but..... the teagasc rule book says!

I said

darragh_haven wrote: »

But but but..... the teagasc rule book says!

That's only for the lads with dry land in Leitrim and Cavan lol

darragh_haven

I said wrote: »

That's only for the lads with dry land in Leitrim and Cavan lol

I may be critical of some of their stuff but they are a brilliant organization for research into all elements of farming. On my travels through the UK they don't seem to have access to similar research.

I'm down on the south west coast here and usually grass growth would be early but this year lack of heat, east wind and rain has create conditions that just means I have to thread carefully regarding putting cattle out. The grass that we have could be walked into the ground very quickly in these conditions

blackdog1

Only cows out on home farm . Left incalf heifers out in outfarm yesterday. I have 2 weeks to 2nd rotation. Feeding 8kg of silage and 8 kg of whole crop with 3 kg of nut in parlour. Protein is 3.51-3.58 atm in winter herd. Regrowth is slow

mahoney_j

At least a bag of urea should be out by now ,heaviest covers grazed off to stimulate new growth .i reckon I grew more grass the last 2 days than the rest of March and Feb combined .a few mild days will transform fields don't panic

Reggie.

Grass has moved on abit in the last few days

Timmaay

mahoney_j wrote: »

At least a bag of urea should be out by now ,heaviest covers grazed off to stimulate new growth .i reckon I grew more grass the last 2 days than the rest of March and Feb combined .a few mild days will transform fields don't panic

Cows standing off this morning (with war between me and my dad, he wants to give them silage uuuhggh), going back out at 12, will use a backing fence. Last 3 paddocks of round1 hopefully will be finished by Tue, they have largely stalled, grass too old on them. Decent few paddocks on 1100 for round2, I was lucky enough to have grazed these out in late Jan when it wasn't too wet, and a bag of urea late Feb. I fully accept we aren't like every farm, but I could easily have sat back and said it's too wet all of jan/Feb and grown an easy ton less of grass for the year, but glad I didn't now, largely back on track, happy enough to be able to stick to the teagasc guidelines. I could be like some of my neighbours, not a blade of grass, sheep in the paddocks for the spring and heavily feeding etc, just like the feed merchants want.

I said

Grazing out all here before it sees fert or slurry atm.
Gone to strong to do anything else

Timmaay

Timmaay wrote: »

Cows standing off this morning (with war between me and my dad, he wants to give them silage uuuhggh)

And he plies in 4 shear grabs of silage despite me warning him not to. So I open the door and turf them straight out to the paddock at 11. I've said this before farming is the easy part, as for family...

blackdog1

Timmaay wrote: »

And he plies in 4 shear grabs of silage despite me warning him not to. So I open the door and turf them straight out to the paddock at 11. I've said this before farming is the easy part, as for family...

I work with the father and we both have our roles. He does grass management and I do feed management. We never fight on those subjects just everything else:).

visatorro

Timmaay wrote: »

And he plies in 4 shear grabs of silage despite me warning him not to. So I open the door and turf them straight out to the paddock at 11. I've said this before farming is the easy part, as for family...

You may take the key outta the tractor. That will be a test of his stubbornness , if he starts filling the wheelbarrow with his bare hands and bringing it to the cows, you're wasting your time!

Timmaay

blackdog1 wrote: »

I work with the father and we both have our roles. He does grass management and I do feed management. We never fight on those subjects just everything else:).

Milking cow feed, grassland management and calf rearing are my job only and I've outlined that enough times to him, he can do whatever he likes with dry cows, heifers, bedding, fertiliser, rolling etc, but I refuse to budge on the above ha.

CloughCasey1

Last yrs reseed half field grazed. First paddock grazed is nearly ready to rock again after 16 days. Ive 10 yearlings to 16mts out grazing with 7 of them going to mart next Saturday. Will keep three others out but have 10 × 10/12mt olds still in shed and they will be in for another few weeks. Have 10 of oct to dec sucks out full time with 6 jan sucks out fine days. 1 bag urea everywhere per acre and dung out on 3 acre paddocks and melting away nicely. 10-10-20 next and waiting on soil test results to see what else it needs.

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

And he plies in 4 shear grabs of silage despite me warning him not to. So I open the door and turf them straight out to the paddock at 11. I've said this before farming is the easy part, as for family...

Ours are still getting 3-4kgs dm of first cut. We're that much short end of story. They're eating around 14-15kg dm of grass and getting a buffer with the silage as above and 5kg of 15% blend. They'll be on this until we're through first round probably next Fri. They got their buffer this morning rather than afternoon as normal. Left them off at 12 when they'd been out of feed for a couple of hours. Horsed into the grass as soon as they got to it.

No panic yet. Grazed paddocks coming along nicely. If the buffer stays in for a couple of weeks so be it. Doing 28l @ 3.35 & 4.2 . 40% heifers. 18-6-12 going out next week. Was going to hold on this for a while but we were at a monitor farm walk last week and I was convinced we need the p&k on now.

Asked the teagasc guys at the walk to get some figures for the response to early N applied in late Jan/early Feb. Be interesting to know what sort of covers were available on Patrick's day on farms that had early N out and those that didn't this year. Should be easy to control for sr and opening covers.

Timmaay

Free your 1st cut is high dmd early May wagon stuff? Against mine that is late May PC low 70s dmd. Which was resulting in a bulk tank pr of 3.12, as soon as I cut it out fully it jumped to 3.3. The next battle with my dad will be the day I call the contractor in an early dry May morning to take out some of the silage fields as nice leafy bales ha...

Milked out

Since I put cows out fulltime protein has fallen by about 0.1 and yield by about 1kg. Previously they were out by day and on maize by night. Have left out the maize in an atempt to get thru grass but also to improve clean out but they are working hard to do so

freedominacup

Milked out wrote: »

Since I put cows out fulltime protein has fallen by about 0.1 and yield by about 1kg. Previously they were out by day and on maize by night. Have left out the maize in an atempt to get thru grass but also to improve clean out but they are working hard to do so

What yield. In these sort of conditions 16kg dm of grass is the ragged edge of what they'll take in on the good days. This won't go much beyond 20l. On colder, wetter days what will you really be looking at? Looking at my own I should be questioning my assumptions about intakes. They certainly didn't take in anything like that from Fri evening to Sat evening.

Bullocks

Timmaay wrote: »

Free your 1st cut is high dmd early May wagon stuff? Against mine that is late May PC low 70s dmd. Which was resulting in a bulk tank pr of 3.12, as soon as I cut it out fully it jumped to 3.3. The next battle with my dad will be the day I call the contractor in an early dry May morning to take out some of the silage fields as nice leafy bales ha...

Same craic here , even though we cant let anything out here with softness and poor growth but I
mentioned that we would want to get an earlier first cut to improve quality and he is gritting his teeth already ! "How will you fill the other half of the pit if you cut too early "

Milked out

freedominacup wrote: »

What yield. In these sort of conditions 16kg dm of grass is the ragged edge of what they'll take in on the good days. This won't go much beyond 20l. On colder, wetter days what will you really be looking at? Looking at my own I should be questioning my assumptions about intakes. They certainly didn't take in anything like that from Fri evening to Sat evening.

They're currently doing 25.5, on 5kgs in parlour as well, when in at night they were on 4kgs in parlour. Approx 10% of herd milking are cary over culls from last spring or cows calving mid May. They were on dry ground until yday so may be forced in yet given ground conditions are deteriorating and only wetter half of farm left to graze. If they go back in they will be back to maize again if I can keep em out by day or maize /silage if they have to stay in for a bit

jaymla627

freedominacup wrote: »

What yield. In these sort of conditions 16kg dm of grass is the ragged edge of what they'll take in on the good days. This won't go much beyond 20l. On colder, wetter days what will you really be looking at? Looking at my own I should be questioning my assumptions about intakes. They certainly didn't take in anything like that from Fri evening to Sat evening.

In this weather with freshly calved cows I only ever assume cows are getting 7-8 kgs dm from grass when housed at night, so feed 5-10 kgs fty in parlour and bump up silage from 5kgs dm to 8kgs

Muckit

The big question..... 'How to get early silage in a late year?'

Milked out

Muckit wrote: »

The big question..... 'How to get early silage in a late year?'

Either graze silage ground first when u get out or as I will do hopefully if it's grazed before mid April cut before end of may and take a second cut in July.

freedominacup

Muckit wrote: »

The big question..... 'How to get early silage in a late year?'

Heading date will be the same. Early or late year is irrelevant. Have to be cut by 15th of May for any quality down here no more than a week after that in Donegal. After that it's just about how big a pile of $hite you want.

Muckit

Tell us then what's the story with 2nd cut? Often seen figures on here of lads with slightly better quality 2nd cut.

freedominacup

Muckit wrote: »

Tell us then what's the story with 2nd cut? Often seen figures on here of lads with slightly better quality 2nd cut.

12th of May then 25th of June. If you want a third cut fifth of August. That'll be hard to get much above 75-76d though.

Muckit

75dmd would do me any day of the week. I don't set my sights too high!! If l got that consistently, l'd be out lighting bonfires!!!

freedominacup

Muckit wrote: »

75dmd would do me any day of the week. I don't set my sights too high!! If l got that consistently, l'd be out lighting bonfires!!!

Maybe so but you're missing out on a lot of cheap extra performance. There's at least a couple of litres per day plus a couple of points of pr % between mid seventies and low eighties. 75 is fine for drystock.

White Clover

The most important thing aside from cutting date in trying to get good silage is proper fertilising. Some lads would poison it with urea/AN while neglecting their P's and k's.

On heavy ground here so not massively stocked. No special silage fields as such. Clear off whole farm in spring and as each field is grazed I apply approx 2000 gals slurry and no more than 70 units N along with whatever extra p&K that's required. Have the mower ready to go and when surpluses start arising, usually from 1st may, I start taking them out. Usually have something to cut every week to 10 days (weather permitting) upto 10th August No fear of drought here. The dryer the summer the better.

f140

freedominacup wrote: »

12th of May then 25th of June. If you want a third cut fifth of August. That'll be hard to get much above 75-76d though.

i couldn't go by this rule at all. not much point telling the cows mid January that ye have had the best of silage all along but its gone now. its then the pile of ****e starts coming into the yard with buying other peoples bales.

Reggie.

White Clover wrote: »

The most important thing aside from cutting date in trying to get good silage is proper fertilising. Some lads would poison it with urea/AN while neglecting their P's and k's.

On heavy ground here so not massively stocked. No special silage fields as such. Clear off whole farm in spring and as each field is grazed I apply approx 2000 gals slurry and no more than 70 units N along with whatever extra p&K that's required. Have the mower ready to go and when surpluses start arising, usually from 1st may, I start taking them out. Usually have something to cut every week to 10 days (weather permitting) upto 10th August No fear of drought here. The dryer the summer the better.

Can't beat your own gear so you can go whenever it suits ya

pedigree 6

White Clover wrote: »

The most important thing aside from cutting date in trying to get good silage is proper fertilising. Some lads would poison it with urea/AN while neglecting their P's and k's.

On heavy ground here so not massively stocked. No special silage fields as such. Clear off whole farm in spring and as each field is grazed I apply approx 2000 gals slurry and no more than 70 units N along with whatever extra p&K that's required. Have the mower ready to go and when surpluses start arising, usually from 1st may, I start taking them out. Usually have something to cut every week to 10 days (weather permitting) upto 10th August No fear of drought here. The dryer the summer the better.

From what i'm hearing a lot of guys are going down this route. You'll have quality silage and grass will be fresher from being grazed before. A lot more are taking this route and making silage bales throughout the year instead of one big cut of pit silage.
Same here never had a drought on this farm yet.
Although I hear the forecasters saying a dampish april and a dry may.

mahoney_j

f140 wrote: »

i couldn't go by this rule at all. not much point telling the cows mid January that ye have had the best of silage all along but its gone now. its then the pile of ****e starts coming into the yard with buying other peoples bales.

Give me a pit of really good 75/76 plus Dmd silage over sub 70 crap any day .good silage stretches further and gives us options that poor quality stuff dosnt .closing no silage ground here this year as have 70 acres of 74 plus Dmd stuff still in the pit .doing all bales and mower and Tedder both ready to go from May bank holiday on .regular cuts of high quality leafy silage and equally nice leafy stuff for cows cslves and maidens for summer .going to lighten the fertliser ,contractor and lessen the bleeding of p&k from ground as well

trixi2011

In my second spring now spring calving in the northern hemisphere and really starting to question the advise on spring grazing management over here. All these targets to meet eg. 30/40 % by the end of February. to achive this most farmers end up grazing there lighter covers earlier in the spring and having cows on grass only to get to the end of the first round and have to start buffering with sh1t silage when the cows energy need are way higher. left a few lighter cover here this spring and they have out preformed the early grazed areas in terms of growth, while heavier cover that were left have stayed still. think I will try something different next year or look into delaying calving date a bit

freedominacup

trixi2011 wrote: »

In my second spring now spring calving in the northern hemisphere and really starting to question the advise on spring grazing management over here. All these targets to meet eg. 30/40 % by the end of February. to achive this most farmers end up grazing there lighter covers earlier in the spring and having cows on grass only to get to the end of the first round and have to start buffering with sh1t silage when the cows energy need are way higher. left a few lighter cover here this spring and they have out preformed the early grazed areas in terms of growth, while heavier cover that were left have stayed still. think I will try something different next year or look into delaying calving date a bit

We generally find grazed awards have much higher gr than land ungrazed. That said we'll turn cows out after the first week of Jan. It's mainly to get grass going. I wouldn't have any meas on grass until after the first of Mar for performance. Even then weather needs to be with you. We haven't seen any drop in performance at any point this spring when we've had to rehouse. In fact I'd say when we were in for four or five days around a month ago performance lifted. Hard to measure when you're in the middle of calving but pr definitely lifted while they were in. From now on there'll be no push for out day and night until Mar. We'll take it if it's coming easily but that's it. This us the first unrestricted spring but those are the points taken so far.

Imo you need to hit the grazing targets. Adjusted for location and land type. Definitely not a one size fits all. You need your early grazed paddocks to be stopped long enough to regrow an adequate cover. You need silage ground cleaned off to help with quality.

Like Mahoney not wedded to closing dates. Nothing closed until gr exceeds demand which is easier to achieve with all of the farm available for grazing. Closed last paddocks for first and second cut as the mower was coming up the lane last year and the year before. Had at least one lot of bales made before first cut both years. Won't stop any of the paddocks on milking platform cut for first cut for second cut. Big mistake last year. Passed on some lovely aftergrass out of habit and had cows looking at some ropey swards at times in late May and June.

Buford T. Justice XIX

trixi2011 wrote: »

In my second spring now spring calving in the northern hemisphere and really starting to question the advise on spring grazing management over here. All these targets to meet eg. 30/40 % by the end of February. to achive this most farmers end up grazing there lighter covers earlier in the spring and having cows on grass only to get to the end of the first round and have to start buffering with sh1t silage when the cows energy need are way higher. left a few lighter cover here this spring and they have out preformed the early grazed areas in terms of growth, while heavier cover that were left have stayed still. think I will try something different next year or look into delaying calving date a bit

I think it was frazzled who said the first and last grazing was for the grass, all the others were for the cows.

As freedom said above, if you get a good section grazed earlier then you will have a good regrowth in time for the second rotation. Despite the poor growth rates this year, it still holds true.

Also early grazing opens up the sward allowing light down to the bottom of the grass plant and promotes regrowth and tillering and helps maintain the ryegrass species in the sward and even improves it. Once the cows don't make sh!te of the sward, that is, it is the only way to stay in business this year.

darragh_haven

freedominacup wrote: »

Heading date will be the same. Early or late year is irrelevant. Have to be cut by 15th of May for any quality down here no more than a week after that in Donegal. After that it's just about how big a pile of $hite you want.

In the last 5 years here, any silage ground that was reseeded got a later heading out variety, usually 20th to 22nd of May. This is mainly because all the silage ground is grazed before closing for silage. This means some ground is closed 10 to 15 days earlier than other ground.
First cut comes in in two batches approx 10 days aprat, first around 12th & the second batch around 20th to 22nd of may. (This is all weather dependant of coarse)

trixi2011

freedominacup wrote: »

We generally find grazed awards have much higher gr than land ungrazed. That said we'll turn cows out after the first week of Jan. It's mainly to get grass going. I wouldn't have any meas on grass until after the first of Mar for performance. Even then weather needs to be with you. We haven't seen any drop in performance at any point this spring when we've had to rehouse. In fact I'd say when we were in for four or five days around a month ago performance lifted. Hard to measure when you're in the middle of calving but pr definitely lifted while they were in. From now on there'll be no push for out day and night until Mar. We'll take it if it's coming easily but that's it. This us the first unrestricted spring but those are the points taken so far.

Imo you need to hit the grazing targets. Adjusted for location and land type. Definitely not a one size fits all. You need your early grazed paddocks to be stopped long enough to regrow an adequate cover. You need silage ground cleaned off to help with quality.

Like Mahoney not wedded to closing dates. Nothing closed until gr exceeds demand which is easier to achieve with all of the farm available for grazing. Closed last paddocks for first and second cut as the mower was coming up the lane last year and the year before. Had at least one lot of bales made before first cut both years. Won't stop any of the paddocks on milking platform cut for first cut for second cut. Big mistake last year. Passed on some lovely aftergrass out of habit and had cows looking at some ropey swards at times in late May and June.

I think were my problem lies is location maybe just need to target 30% by first week march rather than end of February and maybe move calving back a week just to far north to be using the spring rotation planner and calving dates for the south of Ireland. we have had a lift in litres since going in at night but I graph daily milk solids per cow and haven't seen a positive increase despite more litres going out the gate.

trixi2011

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I think it was frazzled who said the first and last grazing was for the grass, all the others were for the cows.

As freedom said above, if you get a good section grazed earlier then you will have a good regrowth in time for the second rotation. Despite the poor growth rates this year, it still holds true.

Also early grazing opens up the sward allowing light down to the bottom of the grass plant and promotes regrowth and tillering and helps maintain the ryegrass species in the sward and even improves it. Once the cows don't make sh!te of the sward, that is, it is the only way to stay in business this year.

I think frazzled is on the money with that statement alright get your grazing wrong in spring and leave dead material behind and grass is under preforming for the year. think I just have to come up with a robust plan to maximise my growth to my location

Bullocks

Would anyone on heavy land take in a few sheep to clean it off instead of letting cows out that would be poaching ? Is getting it grazed worth that ?

Username John

Bullocks wrote: »

Would anyone on heavy land take in a few sheep to clean it off instead of letting cows out that would be poaching ? Is getting it grazed worth that ?

Ha ha...

Oh, this is getting interesting now...

Just think of all the good the sheep would do - rather than them old tanks of cows ruining yer nice fields...

Bullocks

Username John wrote: »

Ha ha...

Oh, this is getting interesting now...

Just think of all the good the sheep would do - rather than them old tanks of cows ruining yer nice fields...

I can see a future in it , and in grazing the greening areas of tillage farms .
This year's lambing went easy peasy for me so i'm feeling a bit positive about them !ðŸ˜

Dawggone

Bullocks wrote: »

I can see a future in it , and in grazing the greening areas of tillage farms .
This year's lambing went easy peasy for me so i'm feeling a bit positive about them !ðŸ˜

+1.
There is a niche for sheep on tillage cover crops. However it's dependent on future nitrate regulation and obviously the price of lamb/mutton. You'd need to be well paid for fencing etc. and the export of OM and fert.

tomwaterford

Bullocks wrote: »

Would anyone on heavy land take in a few sheep to clean it off instead of letting cows out that would be poaching ? Is getting it grazed worth that ?

Heathen :eek: :pac:


That around where I live would be like asking farmers to give up their first born child
Though a neighbour did ask is years ago during a particularly rough winter if we wanted we could graze their land (cattle in during October)....do you think they'd stay....broke back into the home place

whelan2

Bullocks wrote: »

Would anyone on heavy land take in a few sheep to clean it off instead of letting cows out that would be poaching ? Is getting it grazed worth that ?

I used to do it, worked well for a few years when there were good growthy springs , lovely fresh grass after them. Then in 2013 there was no growth that spring and I had no grass:cool::mad:

Bullocks

Dawggone wrote: »

+1.
There is a niche for sheep on tillage cover crops. However it's dependent on future nitrate regulation and obviously the price of lamb/mutton. You'd need to be well paid for fencing etc. and the export of OM and fert.

Would they take much OM or fert out ?
Something would have to be sorted with fencing alright

Bullocks

whelan2 wrote: »

I used to do it, worked well for a few years when there were good growthy springs , lovely fresh grass after them. Then in 2013 there was no growth that spring and I had no grass:cool::mad:

You should have got them out sooner ,I think we were all stuck with grazing that year

whelan2

Bullocks wrote: »

You should have got them out sooner ,I think we were all stuck with grazing that year

They were grazing fields i hadnt been able to get to from August 2012 alot of crap on them, I had them out early enough , just bad luck that there was no growth. Wont have them in again