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"It was their time to go"

  • 23-03-2016 7:13pm
    #1
    Redser87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭


    I have heard this said about the deceased at many funerals, especially those of young people, and it seems to be a source of comfort to those close to the person who died. Indeed, at one time it was comforting for me when a loved one died, to think that they had been 'called back'. I am interested though to find out what theological basis this has, if any.
    And if there is a time for all of us to go, how does that tally with acts of war or other violence?
    Would love to hear people's thoughts on this.


Comments

  • #2
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    God said that we had a lifespan of 70 years.
    In my view less than that is robbery.
    Granted lots of things cause young deaths, disease, accidents , wars but to say the death was Gods will is to condone the things that are the outworking of sin in humanity.


  • #3
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Jerry Sweet Bacteria wrote: »
    God said that we had a lifespan of 70 years.
    In my view less than that is robbery.
    Granted lots of things cause young deaths, disease, accidents , wars but to say the death was Gods will is to condone the things that are the outworking of sin in humanity.

    Are you suggesting that anyone who dies under the age of 70 dies as a result of sin? Who is the robber?


  • #4
    Squall Leonhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Squall Leonhart


    I don't believe tatranska was saying that at all?

    It reads to me like they were saying that to waive human 'sin' as "God's will" is to condone it. Take the recent atrocities in Belgium or France as an example. To say that it was a person's time to go.. part of god's plan... is to remove some of the blame from the perpetrators.

    I do not believe in a god at all, but can still respect what tatranska is saying here.


  • #5
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    I was referring to sin which is indemic in the human race as opposed to individual sins.
    Death came through the sin of one man, Adam.
    Its evident in scripture that the lifespan of mankind reduced with God at one point appointing us 70 years.

    The question is why doesn't He intervene.
    I would say that He has in the crucifixion of His Son who conquered death.
    We are still subject in the flesh to the sin of Adam but Jesus has provided a means by which we overcome death and know eternal life.


  • #6
    Redser87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Redser87


    Thanks for those responses. So what about disease, say a young person dies of cancer? Free will seems to have nothing to do with that.


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  • #7
    solodeogloria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭solodeogloria


    Good morning all!
    Redser87 wrote: »
    I have heard this said about the deceased at many funerals, especially those of young people, and it seems to be a source of comfort to those close to the person who died. Indeed, at one time it was comforting for me when a loved one died, to think that they had been 'called back'. I am interested though to find out what theological basis this has, if any.
    And if there is a time for all of us to go, how does that tally with acts of war or other violence?
    Would love to hear people's thoughts on this.


    OP: Can I just say thank you very much for posting this? This is a question that gets into the nitty gritty of God's character and human suffering. I hope to answer this after thinking and praying about it with an open Bible later. I think the answer is hard and it's one I still struggle with but sincere faith often leaves us struggling with God. That's because God is a separate person to us. If God always agreed with me at first glance I'd have to ask myself long and hard if God wasn't simply created in my own image. I think God allows us to challenge Him and to cry out to Him for justice when things happen that we just don't understand.

    Thank you for your question!

    Much thanks in the Lord Jesus Christ,
    solodeogloria


  • #8
    Ben Gadot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Ben Gadot


    I've been feeling more connected to the faith recently as my father passed away in January. Having said that though, if someone came up to me at the funeral and said "it was just his time", I would have been fairly annoyed.

    People seem to think that they have to say something reassuring when someone suffers a bereavement, no matter how off it might sound. But do you knpw what's the best thing to say? A simple "sorry for your loss."


  • #9
    wokingvoter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭wokingvoter


    Ben Gadot wrote: »
    I've been feeling more connected to the faith recently as my father passed away in January. Having said that though, if someone came up to me at the funeral and said "it was just his time", I would have been fairly annoyed.

    People seem to think that they have to say something reassuring when someone suffers a bereavement, no matter how off it might sound. But do you knpw what's the best thing to say? A simple "sorry for your loss."

    I think it's nice to say something complimentary about the deceased if you can.
    "Your mother was such a nice neighbour, I'm going to miss her terribly" etc.
    I was only 15 when my dad died suddenly but I was greatly comforted by how many people told me what great craic he was. ( his outstanding characteristic, he was very gregarious and loved a laugh)


  • #10
    Ben Gadot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Ben Gadot


    wokingvoter wrote: »
    I think it's nice to say something complimentary about the deceased if you can.
    "Your mother was such a nice neighbour, I'm going to miss her terribly" etc.
    I was only 15 when my dad died suddenly but I was greatly comforted by how many people told me what great craic he was. ( his outstanding characteristic, he was very gregarious and loved a laugh)

    Absolutely that works too.

    Anything that doesn't sound condescending or idiotic in the context of the illness is fine.


  • #11
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Redser87 wrote: »
    Thanks for those responses. So what about disease, say a young person dies of cancer? Free will seems to have nothing to do with that.
    The bible tells us that through the sin of Adam death and disease entered into the experience of the human race.
    As we all sin, these things are therefore our experience also.


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  • #12
    solodeogloria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭solodeogloria


    Happy Easter all!
    Redser87 wrote: »
    I have heard this said about the deceased at many funerals, especially those of young people, and it seems to be a source of comfort to those close to the person who died. Indeed, at one time it was comforting for me when a loved one died, to think that they had been 'called back'. I am interested though to find out what theological basis this has, if any.
    And if there is a time for all of us to go, how does that tally with acts of war or other violence?
    Would love to hear people's thoughts on this.

    OP: I am a man of my word and I promised to give you the best answer I can. There's a couple of questions that get raised by your post and I want to deal with them.

    I believe there is a time for all of us to go, and there is only one person who knows this. God appoints when we die (Hebrews 9:27).

    So in a sense it is true that God calls us home. If someone is a Christian, this world is not their home, their home is elsewhere in heaven.
    2 Corinthians 5:1-4 ESV wrote:
    For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

    We are sojourners and exiles in this world (1 Peter 2 - this chapter really explains this concept). We really don't belong here, because we were made to be in perfect union with Christ. One day that will happen when Jesus comes to be with His bride the church (Revelation 21:2).

    In a sense I could stop my post here and say, yes, God knows everything and it means that He does determine when we die as a result but that doesn't really address the question.

    You touch on armed conflict and other forms of suffering. I think God also knows of these things. There's a poignant passage in the Bible that discusses this also:
    Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 ESV wrote:
    For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:

    a time to be born, and a time to die;
    a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
    a time to kill, and a time to heal;
    a time to break down, and a time to build up;
    a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
    a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
    a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
    a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
    a time to seek, and a time to lose;
    a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
    a time to tear, and a time to sew;
    a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
    a time to love, and a time to hate;
    a time for war, and a time for peace.

    I agree that this is shocking at a first glance and a logical question to ask here is is this actually fair? Is this right? That is too good a question to be left unturned. This passage in Ecclesiastes points to a problem. This world is fallen. Adam and Eve rebelled against God, and every generation has done since. This brought sin and death into the world. Humans rebelled against their loving creator God and as a result they deserve God's wrath rather than God's favour. Sin, and death and everything else is only here because of human wickedness. This creation was cursed at the fall. That doesn't mean there aren't good days and redeeming features, but as a general summary of what has happened that is true.
    Romans 5:12-14 ESV wrote:
    Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

    That sounds pretty bleak right? But it is reality. Things move towards decay. The good news is that Jesus Christ came to rescue us from sin and death and to give us forgiveness from our sin and in turn eternal life if we believe and trust in Him. He went through death on the cross to take God's wrath for our sin in our place so that we can stand blameless before God. What wonderful news if we'd only believe!
    Romans 5:6-11 wrote: »
    For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

    Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    The solution is Jesus. This is the question. Do you believe Him? He is the resurrection and the life for all who believe. (John 11:26). I find funerals extremely difficult as a Christian, because I can only say that someone is headed for heaven if they believe in Jesus, in this death and resurrection. A few years ago my grandmother passed away. Before she died I wanted to share with her about the hope of the gospel so she could be with the Lord. A friend of mine at the church where I went to at the time recommended that I wrote a letter. I did, I explained about the certain hope that we have in Jesus risen from the dead and the hope that this means that we will rise too if we believe in Him. After she had received this I went to her bedside at hospital. She thanked me for her letter and said that she believed it. I knew she had been a Christian when I was growing up, but it was key for me that at death she trusted in Him the only one who can give life beyond the grave.

    I'd love to answer more questions about this, or to be challenged. I've said a lot and I fear I've only touched the surface! I hope I haven't been trite.

    Much thanks in the Lord Jesus Christ and in His resurrection from the dead,
    solodeogloria


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