Business Name - Stopping Cloning & Infringement?

ironclaw

Hi Everyone,

Is it possible to trademark or otherwise lay claim to a business name? We are currently looking for a .ie domain, lets call it 'I Have A Business.ie' The issue is, that and its closest synonym domain are taken e.g. 'I Have A Company.ie' We're reached out as best we can to the domain holders but they have not responded and whilst registered for over 4 years, there is no company attached, registered and the business is not trading i.e. The domains, nor searches of them, resolve to anything. From our perspective, its pretty much cybersquatting.

It is a top level domain, so securing it would be ideal however if not possible, can one register 'IHAB.ie' i.e. The first letter of each word, and then subsequently protect it? Or fear would be registering IHAB.ie, for example, and then the other domain coming online either out of spite or if they decide to launch the business. A disaster either way.

Re-branding is also an idea but for the product and the branding, the current taken domains are beyond perfect.

Advice welcome!

ContentInfo

ironclaw wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

Is it possible to trademark or otherwise lay claim to a business name? We are currently looking for a .ie domain, lets call it 'I Have A Business.ie' The issue is, that and its closest synonym domain are taken e.g. 'I Have A Company.ie' We're reached out as best we can to the domain holders but they have not responded and whilst registered for over 4 years, there is no company attached, registered and the business is not trading i.e. The domains, nor searches of them, resolve to anything. From our perspective, its pretty much cybersquatting.

It is a top level domain, so securing it would be ideal however if not possible, can one register 'IHAB.ie' i.e. The first letter of each word, and then subsequently protect it? Or fear would be registering IHAB.ie, for example, and then the other domain coming online either out of spite or if they decide to launch the business. A disaster either way.

Re-branding is also an idea but for the product and the branding, the current taken domains are beyond perfect.

Advice welcome!

Hi,
I would suggest you have a chat with IEDR on Phone: +353 1 2365400

I've always found them very helpful, but admitedly wasn't with this type of issue.

Best of luck

Graham

On what basis will the IEDR be able to help?

On what basis are the current domain holders infringing anything?

OP are you talking about registering a Trademark in order to attempt to deprive the existing domain holders of their domains?

ContentInfo

Graham wrote: »

On what basis will the IEDR be able to help?

On what basis are the current domain holders infringing anything?

OP are you talking about registering a Trademark in order to attempt to deprive the existing domain holders of their domains?

Hi,
At the very least it'll bring their attention to the fact that it's an unused site and at best the OP might just be able to get his hands on the domain thus saving time and money on protentially rebranding.

They, IEDR, advertise the fact they they're offering a secure Irish name service. A blank domain for that length of time is odd, wouldn't you say? Any domains .COMs .IE I have are always directed at my main site while theres WIP or at the very least I would expect a domain holder to put up a temp splash page detailing ETAs and contacts etc.


Best of luck

Graham

ContentInfo wrote: »

At the very least it'll bring their attention to the fact that it's an unused site and at best the OP might just be able to get his hands on the domain thus saving time and money on protentially rebranding.

Unless the IEDR snook in a use-it-or-lose-it policy I can't see they'd be the least bit interested. I certainly see nothing that would allow anyone to claim an un-used but registered domain.

ContentInfo wrote: »

They, IEDR, advertise the fact they they're offering a secure Irish name service.

How is an unused domain 'not secure'? Where do the IEDR offer a secure domain service?

ContentInfo wrote: »

I have are always directed at my main site while theres WIP or at the very least I would expect a domain holder to put up a temp splash page detailing ETAs and contacts etc.

I have about 30 domains that go nowhere, not the least bit unusual and certainly not grounds for the domain registry to try and relieve me of them.

ContentInfo

Graham wrote: »

Unless the IEDR snook in a use-it-or-lose-it policy I can't see they'd be the least bit interested. I certainly see nothing that would allow anyone to claim an un-used but registered domain.



How is an unused domain 'not secure'? Where do the IEDR offer a secure domain service?



I have about 30 domains that go nowhere, not the least bit unusual and certainly not grounds for the domain registry to try and relieve me of them.

Hi,
Admitedly "secure" is an unfortunate turn of phrase. They say "The .ie domain name is Ireland’s national web address. Choosing .ie instantly shows that you have a connection with Ireland and also an authenticated claim to the specific domain name you choose."

If your business had an option of spending money rebranding or make a call to the IEDR that might help, slim but just might. Just wondering what would you do?

Would be great if our banter here on Boards could save someone a few quid.

Best of luck

Graham

ContentInfo wrote: »

If your business had an option of spending money rebranding or make a call to the IEDR that might help, slim but just might. Just wondering what would you do?

I'm genuinely curious to know what you think the IEDR might do.

Here's what I don't think will say "ahh jeez ironclaw, you know what they're not using it so we'll take it back and give it to you".

Here's what they might say "would you like to take a case under the dispute resolution policy, no problem, on what grounds are you disputing the registration, would you like to pay €1500 for a single panelist to hear your case or €4000 for three panelists".

ironclaw

Thanks for the input. I have actually been in touch with IEDR previously, who were immensely helpful. Basically, as long as someone pays for a domain, they have the rights to it unless it's blatant infringement, misuse etc, which is not the case here. My issue here is the domain would be a great boost for our business but is currently unused and to our knowledge from back checking, never has. An issue may arise in the future if we use the same name but a slightly different domain convention, as per my first post. It could greatly effect our SEO, hence I'm wondering how would one go about protecting ourselves in the same way as if someone opened a shop in the same locality with the same name etc.

There are domains however that do have a fair use policy and I was under the impression .ie was one, I stand corrected however.

jimmii

Have you tried contacting the domain owner to see if they are willing to sell? Most people seem to think people are willing to pay crazy money for domains but it's worth a try you never know.

Theres a boards user who specialises in this domain name stuff - Arbitrary , give him a PM

ironclaw

jimmii wrote: »

Have you tried contacting the domain owner to see if they are willing to sell? Most people seem to think people are willing to pay crazy money for domains but it's worth a try you never know.

We've attempted to make contact but no reply unfortunately. And IEDR can't provide beyond the publically available WHOIS and the hosting company won't act as intermediary. Its surprisingly difficult to get in touch with domain owners on the .ie space.

jimmii

ironclaw wrote: »

We've attempted to make contact but no reply unfortunately. And IEDR can't provide beyond the publically available WHOIS and the hosting company won't act as intermediary. Its surprisingly difficult to get in touch with domain owners on the .ie space.

Very frustrating. I came across similar when looking for a .co.uk they never used the domain and wanted 12k for it! It was a quite a random domain so I can't believe there was any demand for it at all strange they just wanted to sit on it like that.

Graham

If I remember correctly there's something in the IEDR policies around selling domain names, essentially you couldn't. There were talks about changing that policy but I don't know if they ever came to anything.

In the past there's been 'creative' ways employed for transferring domains between parties that were't actually 'selling' the domains. E.g. transferring a company or other assets that may incidentally include the domain name.

That may explain why the current registrant refuses to engage in sale discussions, in case they leave themselves open to accusations of a bad faith registration. Blacknight may be able to offer more specific advice, might be worth dropping him a PM and asking if he'd mind taking a look over this thread.

Of course all of this maybe more expensive than actually rebranding so I wouldn't rule that out as an option.

screamer

It's the same with company names I Ireland. I don't really see how you can be so annoyed someone else registered it first that's how it works. No domain name is worth losing sleep over build a damn good website that shows on Google's first page and it matters not what you call it.....

ironclaw

screamer wrote: »

It's the same with company names I Ireland. I don't really see how you can be so annoyed someone else registered it first that's how it works. No domain name is worth losing sleep over build a damn good website that shows on Google's first page and it matters not what you call it.....

We're not annoyed it was registered first, far from it. If anything it gives us a boost. Our issue is its not being used or in any way developed. I feel, under the ethos of .ie, that is unfair. However, having exhausted that route, we want to protect the brand which we will develop (Same name, but a differing domain) If the person in charge of the current domains decided to launch their business, it could be detrimental to our SEO position.

Graham

ironclaw wrote: »

I feel, under the ethos of .ie, that is unfair.

I'm still not sure what Ethos you're referring to ironclaw.

This what what the IEDR say:

With .com domains, anybody can register any name as long as it is not already taken. In contrast .ie requires a connection with the island of Ireland and a legitimate claim to the chosen name to register your domain. Every .ie registration is checked by our Registration Services Team to ensure that it has both a connection with Ireland and a legitimate claim to the domain name.

ironclaw wrote: »

If the person in charge of the current domains decided to launch their business, it could be detrimental to our SEO position.

Isn't that what the Trademark is to protect against?

ironclaw

Graham wrote: »

This what what the IEDR say:

With .com domains, anybody can register any name as long as it is not already taken. In contrast .ie requires a connection with the island of Ireland and a legitimate claim to the chosen name to register your domain. Every .ie registration is checked by our Registration Services Team to ensure that it has both a connection with Ireland and a legitimate claim to the domain name.

That's the ethos I'm referring to. The business is not trading, never has and has no benefit to Ireland. I'd like to be clear, I'm just musing and its not really a big deal, its just a slight kick in the teeth given the rules laid down by IEDR do not appear to be followed i.e. In our case, we have a registered business name and have been trading for 2 years in the sector.

Graham

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm just musing and its not really a big deal, its just a slight kick in the teeth given the rules laid down by IEDR do not appear to be followed i.e. In our case, we have a registered business name and have been trading for 2 years in the sector.

You could be right, I can't tell from the publicly available information what legitimate claim the registrants have on any domains.

I can say with some certainty that it's no longer a requirement to have a registered company or a registered business name in order to request a domain. That wasn't always the case and that may be where some of the confusion arises.

jmcc

ContentInfo wrote: »

Hi,
At the very least it'll bring their attention to the fact that it's an unused site and at best the OP might just be able to get his hands on the domain thus saving time and money on protentially rebranding.

The real world doesn't work that way. Now to people who don't know about domain names or the web, it might come as a shock to learn that somewhere around 70% of all registered domain names (com/net/org/biz/info/mobi/asia/etc) are unused and have no developed website. Development, beyond a blog with a 'hello world' post, is expensive for most businesses and there is often a delay between a domain name being registered and working website appearing on the domain name. Sometimes a business will register a domain name to protect an existing brand or business domain name. Others might have plans for a domain name that will never be executed. But as long as they are paying the renewal fees, it is their domain name.

They, IEDR, advertise the fact they they're offering a secure Irish name service.

It does and by comparison with a lot of other registries, IEDR is quite good at that.

A blank domain for that length of time is odd, wouldn't you say?

No. But then I do have a lot more experience with this kind of stuff than most people. It is not unusual to see domain names registered over a decade, or more, without working websites.

Any domains .COMs .IE I have are always directed at my main site while theres WIP or at the very least I would expect a domain holder to put up a temp splash page detailing ETAs and contacts etc.

As I said, the real world doesn't work like that. Many undeveloped domain names are automatically parked with PPC adveritsing. Others might not even be set up in DNS. There can be many reasons for a registrant not having a working website or even a landing page (a single webpage with the details you mentioned).

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

ironclaw wrote: »

Is it possible to trademark or otherwise lay claim to a business name?

Trademarks can be tricky but you would be in the situation where you would be, theoretically, obtaining a trademark after the domain name has been registered. That could create the very tricky position of the domain name owner being able to object to your trademark when it is published for opposition. Now a panel in a domain dispute would (should) take the registration date of the domain name and the date of the trademark into account while considering if you have a valid claim to the domain name.

From our perspective, its pretty much cybersquatting.

And like most people who don't know about the definition of cybersquatting, you are wrong. They registered the domain name first. In order to do so, they would have had to have proven an entitlement to do so with IEDR. Now unless you have an existing trademark upon which their registration infringes, it is not cybersquatting.

It is a top level domain, so securing it would be ideal however if not possible, can one register 'IHAB.ie' i.e. The first letter of each word, and then subsequently protect it? Or fear would be registering IHAB.ie, for example, and then the other domain coming online either out of spite or if they decide to launch the business. A disaster either way.

Build a good brand name. Most people who don't know much about the dynamics of domain names seem to advocate going for generic terms. The dynamics in country code TLDs (like .ie) as opposed to global TLDs like .com is towards to specific. (People in a country identify with their ccTLD to such an extent that the .ie part of the website becomes psychologically invisible after a while.) A good brand name is easier for people to remember. It is also easier to trademark and protect.

Re-branding is also an idea but for the product and the branding, the current taken domains are beyond perfect.

Rebranding may be a better idea. Your brand should be unique and memorable. Done well, it would provide your business with a lot more credibility than the wtf-ish "I have a business" example.

Regards...jmcc