Unwanted attention/assault

hairyprincess

I had a big piece written about the circumstances of a 'situation' which took place a little while ago but I deleted it. The gist of it is, old guy put his hand on by bum for about 5 seconds as he was apparently helping me move past an obstacle. All the while saying that I had a great figure and what did I do to keep it like that.

What would you do? I'm getting more angry as the day goes on. Would really appreciate some advice.

Also, just to add I am very, very aware that this is at the lower end of the scale of assaults.

Do you know him personally or was it a stranger in a public place? There might be more options to take if you know him, otherwise he'd be hard to track down.

hairyprincess

Candie wrote: »

Do you know him personally or was it a stranger in a public place? There might be more options to take if you know him, otherwise he'd be hard to track down.

I know him but not well. He farms land on the lane we live on, which is where the incident occurred. He lives a few miles away. I know his surname.

hairyprincess

hairyprincess wrote: »

I know him but not well. He farms land on the lane we live on, which is where the incident occurred. He lives a few miles away. I know his surname.

Well if you see him again you can always try 'confront' him, though I suspect he'll hide behind helping you excuse. As though it is necessary to help people by putting your hands on their butts.

I doubt there's any legal avenue you can take, but you can mention it to the local guards and they can keep it on file. That way if there is ever a more serious complaint against him, they have some other supporting material.

You can always tell him directly that you don't appreciate him putting his hand there, and are very uncomfortable since. Look him right in the eye when you do, so he knows you mean it.

I've been there too HP, and it's so frustrating and humiliating to have someone help themselves to your body. I feel for you, but there's very little you can do about it other than talk to him, and/or mention it to the local guards. Try get past it and not let it eat you up, though I know that's easier said than done.

biko

As frustrating as it is, you didn't do anything at the time and now the moment's kinda gone.
If you see him again and he either make a move or says something to you, I suggest you say "if you touch me again I'll break your nose".
This is particularly useful in my opinion if others are present.

hairyprincess

Candie wrote: »

Well if you see him again you can always try 'confront' him, though I suspect he'll hide behind helping you excuse. As though it is necessary to help people by putting your hands on their butts.

I doubt there's any legal avenue you can take, but you can mention it to the local guards and they can keep it on file. That way if there is ever a more serious complaint against him, they have some other supporting material.

You can always tell him directly that you don't appreciate him putting his hand there, and are very uncomfortable since. Look him right in the eye when you do, so he knows you mean it.

I've been there too HP, and it's so frustrating and humiliating to have someone help themselves to your body. I feel for you, but there's very little you can do about it other than talk to him, and/or mention it to the local guards. Try get past it and not let it eat you up, though I know that's easier said than done.

Thanks Candie. Sound advice as always. It is very humiliating and frustrating for someone to use your body against you. I'm angry at him and at myself for not saying something at the time but I froze. Story of my life there.

Anyway I told the other half when he came home and he's going to have words with him. I'm also going to make a complaint to the guards, I don't expect anything to be done but you are absolutely right, in that they will have it on file if anything happens again, to me or anyone else. I have a teenage daughter so I am very concerned.

armaghlad

Just out of curiosity how old was he?

Probably hard to get charges to stick but getting the oh to speak to him and telling the guards is about all you can do.

hairyprincess

biko wrote: »

As frustrating as it is, you didn't do anything at the time and now the moment's kinda gone.
If you see him again and he either make a move or says something to you, I suggest you say "if you touch me again I'll break your nose".
This is particularly useful in my opinion if others are present.

I don't believe the moment has passed, it's never too late to do something.

My comeback would go a bit further than breaking his nose, I was considering telling him I would put him in hospital for a month if he dared to lay a hand on me or my family again.

hairyprincess

armaghlad wrote: »

Just out of curiosity how old was he?

Probably hard to get charges to stick but getting the oh to speak to him and telling the guards is about all you can do.

I'd imagine mid to late fifties. I was so paranoid all evening, I kept looking out the window to make sure he wasn't coming near the house and I had the door locked.

CiDeRmAn

Regardless of gender there are those out there who seem to believe that they have a right to make intimidating and/or sexually suggestive contact with others.
They may think "Sure it's no harm" but it simply builds an atmosphere that allows this and more to occur, and that's a hard thing to explain to a lot of folk.
They don't seem to think there is any causal link between casual objectification of women and the risk of assault, both physical and sexual, which is directly linked to the victims bring dehumanised and rendered into a cypher of the perpetrators own psychological issues.

As a person working in a very mixed gender environment, I'm a Nurse manager, I'm conscious of the sins of the past, where certain individuals felt that people they saw as in a lower strata, either due to gender or seniority, were fair game in terms of bullying and sexual inappropriateness.

The only thing I would suggest to the OP is to always call people out on their behaviour, you can do it gently at first but certainly take a harder line if they don't take it on board.
It won't have changed what they did to you, but it will certainly spare some other soul being touched in such a way by a man who thinks he has the right.

Edit: apologies for chiming in, it's something we've combated for years, including in a case my wife took, it really grinds my gears, so to speak.

Chemical Byrne

OP you're right to be very angry. What he did was entirely inappropriate. Some old guy putting his hand on your butt and commenting on your figure sounds super perverse and weird. Its disgusting behaviour. The moment has passed of course but one would not blame you for landing him a swift sharp slap across the face.

Talk of breaking noses and putting people in hospital is going too far.

As it stands I think your only course of action would be to tell the guards and have them go out to him about it to give him a fright and show him that this sort of thing is not OK.

I don't mean to make a sweeping generalisation but men of his age from rural farming backgrounds would not be known for their modern values and would be likely to have very traditional, even backward opinions about women. I say this as a guy from a farming background myself.

Milly33

I would think maybe you are reading a little too much into it.. Fine he may be a bit of a perv but going to extremes like locking your door and maybe telling him you will put him in hospital isn't really great either..Maybe an easier approach of please I would prefer if you didn't make comments or do things like that. Then if he still does punch him like and make it clear

Milly33

Milly33 wrote: »

I would think maybe you are reading a little too much into it.. Fine he may be a bit of a perv but going to extremes like locking your door and maybe telling him you will put him in hospital isn't really great either..Maybe an easier approach of please I would prefer if you didn't make comments or do things like that. Then if he still does punch him like and make it clear

The reason guys like him get away with assaulting people (and it IS assault, not a serious one but still assault) is because people don't make much of it, and that makes them think it's not too bad.

More people should be roaring and kicking and screaming and taking decisive action when someone uses their body for a quick thrill.

I prefer if you didn't make comments won't have the same impact as 'I'm telling the guards you've groped me, you old perv'. You don't have to be nice or polite to someone who's helping themselves to your body without your permission.

Let the little things slide and the bigger things get harder to police.

Milly33

There is a way to approach things.. You can go in all OTT and be like WTF but that wont solve anything..I would hardly say it is assault, well that all depends on the person I suppose...

Chemical Byrne

From what I get from the op this seems to have been more along the lines of an opportunistic grope rather than a violent maul.

I don't think she needs to be in fear of him or start locking the doors on account of it.
He does need to be called on his bull**** though,

I'm not saying it's a violent maul. It's at the lesser end, but anyone who puts a hand on you against your wishes is assaulting you, that's the law.

He's probably been getting opportunistic gropes since he was a young man, it's time someone stood up to him and dropped the politeness.

Chemical Byrne

I'm not disputing that it was an assault. It fully is! I'm just pointing out that there's no reason for her to be in ongoing fear of him attacking her because this was opportunistic in nature rather than her being targetted for it.
Doesn't make it any more acceptable though. He is probably doing it because no-one called him to task on it before.

OP needs to do so and it will be to her betterment and she will also be doing the fella a favour by making him see that this carry on is not acceptable in this day and age. If he has any sense he will wake up and cop himself on.

hairyprincess

Just to respond to some of the comments; the talk of wanting to break his nose or land him in hospital for a month is just that, talk. I'm a five foot nothing weakling, I wouldn't be able to knock a fly unconscious let alone a six foot man, as broad as he is long. It was said in anger. However, I don't think pussy footing around him by being all polite is going to get anybody anywhere. People like him need to be brought into the real world, and polite talk won't do that.

Regarding locking the door of the house, I was extremely shook afterwards so it was a reaction more than a well thought out idea. Of course today, now that I am calmer and able to think more rationally, I am pretty certain that he wouldn't come into the house.

While it was definitely not a serious assault, it was still an assault. I fully expect the guards to do nothing other than possible have a word in his ear. But, I will feel happier knowing that they are aware should anything ever happen again.

Chemical Byrne

A visit from the guards might be enough to get him to change his behaviour.

It must've been bad enough all the same if you were that distressed last night?

Perhaps you could take a civil case against him? The burden of proof is much lower....

Milly33

Then go do it, if that's what you feel like you have to do.. You asked for opinions which were giving but you seem to be adamant that you are taking the extreme approach anywho so as such just go do that.

Milly33

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

A visit from the guards might be enough to get him to change his behaviour.

It must've been bad enough all the same if you were that distressed last night?

Perhaps you could take a civil case against him? The burden of proof is much lower....

Maybe ye should team up and bring him to court

There's nothing extreme about reporting an assault.

Chemical Byrne

Milly, I don't see how reporting an opportunistic fondler to the guards is an "extreme approach". It seems to be a reasonable and proportionate response in my view.....

hairyprincess

Milly33 wrote: »

Maybe ye should team up and bring him to court

Do you actually think it's ok for ANYONE, regardless of age or gender to put their hands on someone in this way and make lewd comments?

Milly33

"opportunistic fondler " how is putting your hand on someones ass for 5 seconds and "opportunistic fondler " sorry but ladies are way too sensitive...

eviltwin

Really surprised at some of the comments here. Okay so it's on the lower level of an assault but it's still someone touching you intimately against your will and it feels horrible. What can make it worse is the fact that he got his jollies and knows that you probably won't do anything because it was done in a subtle way. It's not that much different to emotional abuse in a relationship, these guys get off on knowing that their intentions are hard to prove, that they can be brushed off as accidental or acceptable due to his age, give me strength.

I'd have no problem getting support from a trusted friend or family member and confronting him and telling him that if he ever does that again you will defend yourself physically if needed. Hope your okay xx

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Milly33 wrote: »

"opportunistic fondler " how is putting your hand on someones ass for 5 seconds and "opportunistic fondler " sorry but ladies are way too sensitive...

He saw an opportunity for a fondle and he took it? No way in hell is this the first or last time he's done this either

Is your attitude to this honestly 'fcuk her if she can't take a bit of craic'? Are you from the seventies?

Milly33

Milly33 wrote: »

"opportunistic fondler " how is putting your hand on someones ass for 5 seconds and "opportunistic fondler " sorry but ladies are way too sensitive...

Are you actually serious?

armaghlad

Jesus wept milly. You don't just go around feeling women's asses for 5 seconds at a time. Right not the most severe assault you're gonna hear about but an assault nonetheless. Completely inappropriate.

CiDeRmAn

Fellas have difficulty in understanding the real fear and intimidation in someone making inappropriate contact, it reinforces a persons control, superiority and I don't know anyone who has ever appreciated it.
And it is on a spectrum, with rape at the other end, and the way that behaviour changes is in gradual steps, with one thing making the following behaviour all the more excusable.
It's a tale too often told when a woman refuses advances and gets a smack for her trouble, or a tirade of abuse, because the man's position is unexpectedly called into question.

On reflection the OP was probably right not to call him on it at the time, as she was alone with him and, well, you just don't know.
It might be something to mention to the Gardaí tbh, put the fear of god into him and it'll never happen again.
If it was in work the person would probably be fired and, at best, expected to go through sensitivity training and have his name well and truly sullied, if all he gets is a talking to from the Guards he's getting off light.

Milly33

No im not from the seventies... Quite young and I just think women fly off the handle with stuff like this...

"He saw an opportunity for a fondle and he took it? No way in hell is this the first or last time he's done this either
Is your attitude to this honestly 'fcuk her if she can't take a bit of craic'? Are you from the seventies? "

How do you know maybe it was his first time and it was an accident,
Maybe the OP gave the man the wrong impression

You cant exactly tell from the OP's post what the entire situation was.. You cant go off saying OMG that man is such a pervert because oh good he touched my bum!! Sacrilege off with his head...

Calling the guards or suggestion bringing him to court for a bottom touch is mad and wasting police time reminds me of that episode on IT crowd where he tool the masseur to court for kisses his bum..

Go call to the man with someone there, and make it known to him how it made you feel... Don't go in all guns blazing to find out you made a mountain out of a mole hill.

no need to mention the F word either, sounds crude

Milly33

Milly33 wrote: »

No im not from the seventies... Quite young and I just think women fly off the handle with stuff like this...

"He saw an opportunity for a fondle and he took it? No way in hell is this the first or last time he's done this either
Is your attitude to this honestly 'fcuk her if she can't take a bit of craic'? Are you from the seventies? "

How do you know maybe it was his first time and it was an accident,
Maybe the OP gave the man the wrong impression

You cant exactly tell from the OP's post what the entire situation was.. You cant go off saying OMG that man is such a pervert because oh good he touched my bum!! Sacrilege off with his head...

Calling the guards or suggestion bringing him to court for a bottom touch is mad and wasting police time reminds me of that episode on IT crowd where he tool the masseur to court for kisses his bum..

Go call to the man with someone there, and make it known to him how it made you feel... Don't go in all guns blazing to find out you made a mountain out of a mole hill.

no need to mention the F word either, sounds crude

Jesus H Christ. I honestly didn't bother reading any further.

Chemical Byrne

Evil twin, I think what you suggest in having her March down to his house with an entourage of large males or whatever and confronting him about it and suggesting physical defence etc is a bit over the top. Not quite as excessive as breaking noses and putting in hospital, but a bit OTT all the same.

Milly33, why are you minimising it? She was subjected to a mild sexual assault by an overweight middle aged male - that's disgusting. Would you be minimising it if you he carried out a comparable sex attack on your backside?

The OP is fully justified in going to the gaurds and I think that is the most appropriate course of action to take.

eviltwin

Milly33 wrote: »

No im not from the seventies... Quite young and I just think women fly off the handle with stuff like this...

"He saw an opportunity for a fondle and he took it? No way in hell is this the first or last time he's done this either
Is your attitude to this honestly 'fcuk her if she can't take a bit of craic'? Are you from the seventies? "

How do you know maybe it was his first time and it was an accident,
Maybe the OP gave the man the wrong impression

You cant exactly tell from the OP's post what the entire situation was.. You cant go off saying OMG that man is such a pervert because oh good he touched my bum!! Sacrilege off with his head...

Calling the guards or suggestion bringing him to court for a bottom touch is mad and wasting police time reminds me of that episode on IT crowd where he tool the masseur to court for kisses his bum..

Go call to the man with someone there, and make it known to him how it made you feel... Don't go in all guns blazing to find out you made a mountain out of a mole hill.

no need to mention the F word either, sounds crude

Seriously you don't seem to live in the real world. It's easy to tell the difference between someone groping your body vs accidentally touching it.

'Maybe the OP gave the man the wrong impression'...not quite sure what you mean by that.

I don't think anyone seriously expects the courts to deal with this but if nothing happens he won't learn will he? He needs to be called up on it. It might not change him but it might help the OP feel a bit more in control.

hairyprincess

Milly33 wrote: »

No im not from the seventies... Quite young and I just think women fly off the handle with stuff like this...

"He saw an opportunity for a fondle and he took it? No way in hell is this the first or last time he's done this either
Is your attitude to this honestly 'fcuk her if she can't take a bit of craic'? Are you from the seventies? "

How do you know maybe it was his first time and it was an accident,
Maybe the OP gave the man the wrong impression

You cant exactly tell from the OP's post what the entire situation was.. You cant go off saying OMG that man is such a pervert because oh good he touched my bum!! Sacrilege off with his head...

Calling the guards or suggestion bringing him to court for a bottom touch is mad and wasting police time reminds me of that episode on IT crowd where he tool the masseur to court for kisses his bum..

Go call to the man with someone there, and make it known to him how it made you feel... Don't go in all guns blazing to find out you made a mountain out of a mole hill.

no need to mention the F word either, sounds crude

Oh my God, are you actually being serious????? What exactly do you think I done to give him the wrong impression???

hairyprincess

hairyprincess wrote: »

Oh my God, are you actually being serious????? What exactly do you think I done to give him the wrong impression???

I feel bad for you having to read that, HP. None of this was your fault or about anything you did or any impression you gave. It's all about the old guy, you're blameless and I'd hate you to start second guessing yourself while you're upset about it.

I think your plan is a good one, and I hope you get a bit of peace from it.

Chemical Byrne

Having the gardai go to his house and give out to him.

Milly33, your comments are asolutely disgraceful. "Gave him the wrong impression" ? Jesus, talk about victim blaming....

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Milly33 wrote: »

No im not from the seventies... Quite young and I just think women fly off the handle with stuff like this...

"He saw an opportunity for a fondle and he took it? No way in hell is this the first or last time he's done this either
Is your attitude to this honestly 'fcuk her if she can't take a bit of craic'? Are you from the seventies? "

How do you know maybe it was his first time and it was an accident,
Maybe the OP gave the man the wrong impression

Yeah his hand probably slipped and landed on her arse as he was commenting on her figure and he has reduced sensitivity in it from a pre-existing condition so he just plain didn't realise for several seconds.

You cant exactly tell from the OP's post what the entire situation was.. You cant go off saying OMG that man is such a pervert because oh good he touched my bum!! Sacrilege off with his head...

He touched her arse without her consent while making comments about her body. But sure there probably wasn't a sexual thought in his mind at the time.

Calling the guards or suggestion bringing him to court for a bottom touch is mad and wasting police time reminds me of that episode on IT crowd where he tool the masseur to court for kisses his bum..

Go call to the man with someone there, and make it known to him how it made you feel... Don't go in all guns blazing to find out you made a mountain out of a mole hill.

This sort of thing doesn't get to court. Full on rapes very often don't get to court. Letting the gards know is a perfectly reasonable response. If more women did this, things would be easier for all of us

no need to mention the F word either, sounds crude

Yeah I might give some man the wrong idea with that unladylike language, I'll know not to come crying to you if I get myself groped over it.

eviltwin

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Evil twin, I think what you suggest in having her March down to his house with an entourage of large males or whatever and confronting him about it and suggesting physical defence etc is a bit over the top. Not quite as excessive as breaking noses and putting in hospital, but a bit OTT all the same.

Milly33, why are you minimising it? She was subjected to a mild sexual assault by an overweight middle aged male - that's disgusting. Would you be minimising it if you he carried out a comparable sex attack on your backside?

The OP is fully justified in going to the gaurds and I think that is the most appropriate course of action to take.

I never suggested that

I did suggest bringing one person for moral support.

As for violence, yeah if someone touches me against my will I will defend myself and I make no aplogies for that.

hairyprincess

Candie wrote: »

I feel bad for you having to read that, HP. None of this was your fault or about anything you did or any impression you gave. It's all about the old guy, you're blameless and I'd hate you to start second guessing yourself while you're upset about it.

I think your plan is a good one, and I hope you get a bit of peace from it.

I have reported Millys comment. That was absolutely the most vile thing to say. I will not be engaging with her/him again on this thread.

I am fully assured that what happened was of that perverts own doing. I'm sure it wasn't his first time but hopefully it will be his last.

hairyprincess

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Fellas have difficulty in understanding the real fear and intimidation in someone making inappropriate contact, it reinforces a persons control, superiority and I don't know anyone who has ever appreciated it.
And it is on a spectrum, with rape at the other end, and the way that behaviour changes is in gradual steps, with one thing making the following behaviour all the more excusable.
It's a tale too often told when a woman refuses advances and gets a smack for her trouble, or a tirade of abuse, because the man's position is unexpectedly called into question.

On reflection the OP was probably right not to call him on it at the time, as she was alone with him and, well, you just don't know.
It might be something to mention to the Gardaí tbh, put the fear of god into him and it'll never happen again.
If it was in work the person would probably be fired and, at best, expected to go through sensitivity training and have his name well and truly sullied, if all he gets is a talking to from the Guards he's getting off light.

You know I never considered the 'what if' if I had retaliated. We were on a lane where the nearest house, apart from my own, is about half a mile away. Chances are if he took it any further nobody would have heard anything. I dread to think

CiDeRmAn

Milly33 wrote: »

How do you know maybe it was his first time and it was an accident,
Maybe the OP gave the man the wrong impression

So lets give someone a free pass for commenting on her figure and touching her inappropriately, sure it wasn't his fault and it was the first time?
Statistically unlikely to be a first time, and given his hands lingered on her person for 5 seconds a very definite impression was supposed to be left, that is an expression of sexual interest.

no need to mention the F word either, sounds crude

So, don't be too sensitive about being objectified, but be sensitive about swearing.

I think your value system needs some fine tuning in this regard.

The objectification of women in endemic in society, plenty of people who conduct themselves as civilised people should but there is enough still out there, in every class, that figures that they have the right to express themselves and impress themselves upon people in these ways, some alpha male crap from the dark ages, immediately gratifying and ego boosting and utterly unwelcome.

The most important thing to take is that
It isn't ok to treat someone like the OP was treated, ever.
Best example I can remember is a friend of mine, a blokes bloke, who found himself in a bar whilst on holiday and nearly soiled himself when another bloke propositioned him, and he was afraid and couldn't get out quick enough.
Unwanted sexual attention, where you don't feel you always have the position to defend yourself or walkaway, is frightening, perhaps more men should feel like prey before they go off and pretend to be stone age hunters.

Milly33

Where are ye going with overweight man from sorry!! The op said middle ages man... And made some reference that she is 5ft and he is taller...

Im not saying don't do anything about it, im saying there are steps the op could take and not to jump the gun....
All ye know is what the OP has vaguely described.. What was the entire storey OP

Were you walking down the road and suddenly this old man popped out and said ill help you pass this obstacle, while putting his hand on your bum for 5 seconds, commenting on your figure? if so yes then this is something he pre-planned and deserves being addressed.

But in another case if you were jumping over a face and this man helped you, it so happened he placed his hand on you bum for 5 mins, and commented" don't you have a loverly figure"! That is hardly assault..

You can jump the gun from the information the OP has given that the man is as ye say a perve who has been doing this kind of thing for years...

Chemical Byrne

Like the Madonna boob-gate affair in tgc, it is a sex attack if the OP considers it to be a sex attack.

With the man in question, what I'm getting at is that a grope and comment on the consistency of her buttock from an overweight middle aged creep in his late 50s will be most unwelcome and thus sexually motivated assault 99.9% of the time. On the other hand a similar incident with an attractive young man might not be considered assault and maybe even considered a compliment. I could still be assault though. It all depends on how the victim interprets it....

CiDeRmAn

hairyprincess wrote: »

You know I never considered the 'what if' if I had retaliated. We were on a lane where the nearest house, apart from my own, is about half a mile away. Chances are if he took it any further nobody would have heard anything. I dread to think

Just be careful out there.
My wife was in a horrible situation a couple of years ago when, out walking on the rural roads where we live, she was followed by a car full of men, they drove behind her slowly and spent many minutes intimidating her. It was only when she eventually came to a house that she went in through the gates and up to the front door that they drove off, and my wife was still some miles from home, and they could have done anything to her and no one would have known.

Women are vulnerable, and they really are only so because of men, it is never their fault, ever.
There's a lot to be said for carrying a heavy walking stick tbh.
An "accidental" jab in the nethers, just as accidental as his hand on you, might be good medicine.
If there's a dog on your route you'll take steps to stay safe, do the same.

HP is the person it happened to.

She's a much better judge of the dynamic than you are Milly. Your comments aren't helping her, and upsetting her more.

CiDeRmAn

Milly33 wrote: »

But in another case if you were jumping over a face and this man helped you, it so happened he placed his hand on you bum for 5 mins, and commented" don't you have a loverly figure"! That is hardly assault..

That's exactly assault.
A punch in the face lasts seconds but is assault, because it is done with the intent to harm or intimidate.
A hand on your person, in a personal place, is also intentful if it lingers, and is also assault.

I know, people have brushed off each other and, typically, apologised immediately, this is embarrassing, but this meeting was coupled with other suggestive comments as well as the touch lasting longer, and that's assault.

Chemical Byrne

I'm sorry to hear your wife had to deal with that bullcrap. I baffles me how some jerks can get off at this carry on. It makes me angry that there a men who give all men a bad name by being ignorant cúnts like those fellas.

Milly33

So I need to fine tune my values because I don't think bring the F word into a conversation is nice and you think "Women are vulnerable, and they really are only so because of men, it is never their fault, ever" really....Only because of men!!

Id much prefer my values than to think so little minded of any man or women... Casting everyone with the same stone

OP if comments upset you they are not intended to it is just a different side of it... again you seem to have your mind made up so they go with that, if it makes you feel more comfortable then do it...

eviltwin

Milly33 wrote: »

So I need to fine tune my values because I don't think bring the F word into a conversation is nice and you think "Women are vulnerable, and they really are only so because of men, it is never their fault, ever" really....Only because of men!!

Id much prefer my values than to think so little minded of any man or women... Casting everyone with the same stone

OP if comments upset you they are not intended to it is just a different side of it... again you seem to have your mind made up so they go with that, if it makes you feel more comfortable then do it...

Swearing offends you but women being felt up is excusable and even possibly somehow the responsibility of the woman herself.....weird logic

Milly33

Milly33 wrote: »

So I need to fine tune my values because I don't think bring the F word into a conversation is nice and you think "Women are vulnerable, and they really are only so because of men, it is never their fault, ever" really....Only because of men!!

Id much prefer my values than to think so little minded of any man or women... Casting everyone with the same stone

OP if comments upset you they are not intended to it is just a different side of it... again you seem to have your mind made up so they go with that, if it makes you feel more comfortable then do it...

Nobody thinks less of men in general, just the groper that the thread is about.

Nobody's casting anyone with the same stone, and nobody is asking you to fine tune anything.

That's some warped perspective you have going on there.