Ireland`s rural broadband speeds

azex

As like many others who live in a rural area (if rural is just a couple of miles from an urban populous) suffer from low broadband speeds.

How is it this still so? It is unacceptable that the rural ireland is neglected, even areas just outside large towns and cities have a fraction the speed their neighbours have.

It's a compete disgrace that should be a major topic in today's politics.

mansize

Proper planning and preventing random one off houses being built would have stopped that

azex

mansize wrote: »

Proper planning and preventing random one off houses being built would have stopped that

ah no - even excluding one off houses, the coverage of high speed broadband is terrible.

mansize

I wonder what the population coverage % is?

tsue921i8wljb3

There are already large threads discussing this issue. The NBP which has promised high speed broadband to all houses by 2020:

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057332672/

Also eir have recently announced 100000 rural premises to get FTTH to be completed by March 2017:

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057499489/

ED E

This is more the thread you want really, thought the NBP thread has gone that way too again:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88944872

BTW Navi, touch site links :pac:

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

This is more the thread you want really, thought the NBP thread has gone that way too again:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88944872

BTW Navi, touch site links :pac:

Sorry ED E. I love a bit of touch!

(Anybody who doesn't share my love can click Full Site at the bottom of each page)

Wanderer78

azex wrote: »

As like many others who live in a rural area (if rural is just a couple of miles from an urban populous) suffer from low broadband speeds.

How is it this still so? It is unacceptable that the rural ireland is neglected, even areas just outside large towns and cities have a fraction the speed their neighbours have.

It's a compete disgrace that should be a major topic in today's politics.

id have to agree. this is disgraceful

corsav6

Giancarlo Clean User wrote: »

Sorry ED E. I love a bit of touch!

(Anybody who doesn't share my love can click Full Site at the bottom of each page)

Touch site is the only way imo

I'm currently on a 4mb connection provided by a local wisp. It's only ok tbh, if Netflix or YouTube are used then browsing becomes a waiting game and downloading is pointless.
HD video streams flawlessly 95% of the time and video calls are clear. Gaming is surprisingly good with excellent ping.
An upgrade to at least 8mb would be nice as it would solve most of our problems, and 8mb is not too much to ask for in fairness.

CSSE09

Genuine question would you be willing to pay the cost of the line/cabinet upgrade? Private companies like virgin media go where they can get a return on their investment in the infrastructure, much easier to make money where they can sign up many customers in housing estates instead of a handful outside of an urban area.

Starscream25

My folks are getting 1.7 download speed out in the sticks, was .3 last week, they're hoping to sell the place and move closer to town next year, I wonder whod be mad enough to move to an area with terrible Internet. God I hope this rural thing is sorted out in the near future

Wanderer78

CSSE09 wrote: »

Genuine question would you be willing to pay the cost of the line/cabinet upgrade? Private companies like virgin media go where they can get a return on their investment in the infrastructure, much easier to make money where they can sign up many customers in housing estates instead of a handful outside of an urban area.

you gotta love the free market

Gonzo

corsav6 wrote: »

Touch site is the only way imo

Gaming is surprisingly good with excellent ping.

A ping can be amazing even on ISDN and 512k broadband, infact I used to have a much better ping when I had broadband back in 2002/2003 than I do now, at one point interleaving was set to fast by Eircom and I used to get pings of 10ms, now they are more like 50ms.

Wanderer78

Gonzo wrote: »

A ping can be amazing even on ISDN and 512k broadband, infact I used to have a much better ping when I had broadband back in 2002/2003 than I do now, at one point interleaving was set to fast by Eircom and I used to get pings of 10ms, now they are more like 50ms.

assume thats due to contention?

Gonzo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

assume thats due to contention?

doubt its to do with contention, its to do with whatever way Eir set up your line, they can apply different interleaving settings to your line. They probably set mine higher so that I wouldnt get disconnects as much and a slightly higher sync rate.

corsav6

CSSE09 wrote: »

Genuine question would you be willing to pay the cost of the line/cabinet upgrade? Private companies like virgin media go where they can get a return on their investment in the infrastructure, much easier to make money where they can sign up many customers in housing estates instead of a handful outside of an urban area.

I'd happily pay an upfront fee up to 2k if it guaranteed I got at least an 8mb connection, although for 2k and monthly payments I'd expect a bit better than 8mb.

Wanderer78

corsav6 wrote: »

I'd happily pay an upfront fee up to 2k if it guaranteed I got at least an 8mb connection, although for 2k and monthly payments I'd expect a bit better than 8mb.

you shouldnt have to. hopefully ftth roles out quickly across the country

corsav6

Gonzo wrote: »

A ping can be amazing even on ISDN and 512k broadband, infact I used to have a much better ping when I had broadband back in 2002/2003 than I do now, at one point interleaving was set to fast by Eircom and I used to get pings of 10ms, now they are more like 50ms.

I got 18ms and 4mb down, screenshot should be included with this post.

12Phase

ISDN doesn't have contention. It's not IP based at all. It's pretty much a raw digital switched circuit on the old voice telephone network infrastructure. Each connection had dedicated and fixed bandwidth.

editorsean

Don't go by Ookla's Speedtest ping result - It can be well below what can be achieved with a command line ping test to any host name on the web.

The following is an example with my previous ISP NWE Bluebox:



Now let's see someone beat that ping...

marno21

I live in a rural village in Co. Cork and have had speed of 8Mb/1Mb since ~2011.

Eir fibre is currently being installed in the exchange so will have proper broadband before time.

What Open Eir are doing between FTTC and FTTH is nothing to be laughed at, many rural areas will soon have fibre access trumping that of similar areas in many other countries that were previously heralded for their broadband rollouts.

corsav6

editorsean wrote: »

Don't go by Ookla's Speedtest ping result - It can be well below what can be achieved with a command line ping test to any host name on the web.

The following is an example with my previous ISP NWE Bluebox:



Now let's see someone beat that ping...

I don't take much heed of speedtest.net tbh, I got 0ms once before and 2-3ms was common. I have a feeling that wisp gives inaccurate ping anyway.

editorsean

Indeed, in addition to erratic ping times, that WISP had heavy packet loss also. The following was an extended ping test to the Google DNS IP with the command line at that time:

corsav6

editorsean wrote: »

Indeed, in addition to erratic ping times, that WISP had heavy packet loss also. The following was an extended ping test to the Google DNS IP with the command line at that time:

Packet loss is the killer here too. Most noticeable on rainy or foggy days.

azex

corsav6 wrote: »

Touch site is the only way imo

I'm currently on a 4mb connection provided by a local wisp. It's only ok tbh, if Netflix or YouTube are used then browsing becomes a waiting game and downloading is pointless.
HD video streams flawlessly 95% of the time and video calls are clear. Gaming is surprisingly good with excellent ping.
An upgrade to at least 8mb would be nice as it would solve most of our problems, and 8mb is not too much to ask for in fairness.

Have you ever tried gaming when another person is streaming Netflix? Even opening a webpage can be difficult when another is watching a youtube video..

Congestion is a real thing when on a connection >4mb =/

azex

CSSE09 wrote: »

Genuine question would you be willing to pay the cost of the line/cabinet upgrade? Private companies like virgin media go where they can get a return on their investment in the infrastructure, much easier to make money where they can sign up many customers in housing estates instead of a handful outside of an urban area.

I would pay 2k installation for 20mb connection, no problem. Waiting until 2020 (assuming no delays, there's always delays) is far too long.

corsav6

azex wrote: »

Have you ever tried gaming when another person is streaming Netflix? Even opening a webpage can be difficult when another is watching a youtube video..

Congestion is a real thing when on a connection >4mb =/

Sorry what I meant was that when Netflix or YouTube is streaming there is no point trying to do anything else online.
When nothing else is using bandwidth the connection is OK for gaming.
I get consistent 4mb on my connection, 450kbs download speed when downloading files.

azex wrote: »

I would pay 2k installation for 20mb connection, no problem. Waiting until 2020 (assuming no delays, there's always delays) is far too long.

Assuming it's not satellite then I'd take 20mb for 2k any day. Preferably unlimited too.

murphaph

azex wrote: »

I would pay 2k installation for 20mb connection, no problem. Waiting until 2020 (assuming no delays, there's always delays) is far too long.

But 2k could and would likely be far less than the actual cost of the install (you'd need a fibre cabinet within roughly 600m of your property plus pulling the fibre out from the exchange to that cabinet plus the power feed to the cabinet. If your current phone line is direct fed (ie, does not go via a copper cabinet) then that would need to be built too and your line moved over to that new cabinet. Now, figure out how much all that costs and divide that figure by the number of your neighbours who would also be served by that cabinet and would also be prepared to pay at least in the thousands for the connection and you will have an idea of the true cost that you would need to pay to cover the cost of the install.

FTTC simply makes no sense though for such low density populations as the cabinets are active devices and you would need far far too many of them because their performance is severely range limited. FTTH is the only show in town for one off housing in Ireland and the initial install costs are probably even higher, because the existing copper run can't be used at all and the fibre has to be brought all the way to your property. 2k is simply nowhere near the real cost of FTTH.

Heck, we have to pay a grand for a bog standard Deutsche Telekom copper line here with our new build.

ted1

azex wrote: »

As like many others who live in a rural area (if rural is just a couple of miles from an urban populous) suffer from low broadband speeds.

How is it this still so? It is unacceptable that the rural ireland is neglected, even areas just outside large towns and cities have a fraction the speed their neighbours have.

It's a compete disgrace that should be a major topic in today's politics.

Any idea if the cost of laying cable ? There is no way to recoup this cost when you are dealing with low density housing.

Housing stock is cheaper in rural Ireland, put the savings you make by buying a house with limited services into laying your own cable

azex

murphaph wrote: »

But 2k could and would likely be far less than the actual cost of the install (you'd need a fibre cabinet within roughly 600m of your property plus pulling the fibre out from the exchange to that cabinet plus the power feed to the cabinet. If your current phone line is direct fed (ie, does not go via a copper cabinet) then that would need to be built too and your line moved over to that new cabinet. Now, figure out how much all that costs and divide that figure by the number of your neighbours who would also be served by that cabinet and would also be prepared to pay at least in the thousands for the connection and you will have an idea of the true cost that you would need to pay to cover the cost of the install.

FTTC simply makes no sense though for such low density populations as the cabinets are active devices and you would need far far too many of them because their performance is severely range limited. FTTH is the only show in town for one off housing in Ireland and the initial install costs are probably even higher, because the existing copper run can't be used at all and the fibre has to be brought all the way to your property. 2k is simply nowhere near the real cost of FTTH.

Heck, we have to pay a grand for a bog standard Deutsche Telekom copper line here with our new build.

I know 2k won't get a person far pal, I was replying to the question of what would you pay.

azex

ted1 wrote: »

Any idea if the cost of laying cable ? There is no way to recoup this cost when you are dealing with low density housing.

Housing stock is cheaper in rural Ireland, put the savings you make by buying a house with limited services into laying your own cable

Cost is high but the cost would be paid over time. (That's why we are getting broadband rolled out by '2020', including incentives to the ISP via grants) We're not just talking about isolated houses zones like inishman - urban areas just outside towns and cities.

Housing here is not cheap nor is it dublin central prices. The cost of living in rural Ireland is not just cheaper houses, add the cost of commuting with generally lower income families and you'll notice similar disposable income among households - having lived in many parts of this country, this is what I've witnessed.

ED E

For clarity as I think some are missing this, the problem is one off and ribbon homes. If we had the same number of houses but all these were clustered everyone would already have decent FTTC. Rural villages are easy to serve assuming you arent wasting money in between said villages.

azex wrote: »

Cost is high but the cost would be paid over time. (That's why we are getting broadband rolled out by '2020', including incentives to the ISP via grants) We're not just talking about isolated houses zones like inishman - urban areas just outside towns and cities.

Lets say 8K to connect a premises and lets say OpenEir make €10/mo in pure profit of your €70/mo premium.

Thats 66 years to recoup your investment. Assuming no changes in tech or upgrades in the next half century. This is why the government has to fork out.

Housing here is not cheap nor is it dublin central prices. The cost of living in rural Ireland is not just cheaper houses, add the cost of commuting with generally lower income families and you'll notice similar disposable income among households - having lived in many parts of this country, this is what I've witnessed.

You're making our point stronger. All the extra CO2 emissions from you simply buying a litre of milk because you cant even walk to a local shop. The extra costs you face are inefficiencies, things we've been trying to remove and resolve since the industrial revolution.

Even as a social thing I personally think its terrible to raise kids in homes where they can't even play with friends without hopping in the car or cycling into town.

ECO_Mental

ED E wrote: »

Even as a social thing I personally think its terrible to raise kids in homes where they can't even play with friends without hopping in the car or cycling into town.

Ah here ED E... you were going great until this BS, I was raised in the country and we would meet the neighbours in the Glen next to us all the time and play forts and army, building hideouts go exploring etc etc a great childhood. Saying that kids who live in the country are socially deprived is total crap..

People do have to live in the country to actually put milk on your table for your coco pops you do know that!

Yes them expecting fftc bb is not realistic also you being able to keep a few chickens grow a half acre of spuds to keep yourself fed for the year and living in an apartment in D4 is not realistic as well.

Gonzo

I think close to 40% of the Irish population lives in what is considered a rural location. Generations of Irish people come from rural areas with farming backgrounds etc and entire families lived in close circles while some moved to urban areas or emigrated.

We can't suddenly change all this around like magic and suddenly have a society like Holland or Germany where all the people live in either towns, cities or self contained villages with little or no ribbon developments and one off housing. Ireland is the way it is and decent broadband will have to be eventually made available everywhere just like the way electricity was made available throughout the land.

murphaph

Gonzo wrote: »

I think close to 40% of the Irish population lives in what is considered a rural location. Generations of Irish people come from rural areas with farming backgrounds etc and entire families lived in close circles while some moved to urban areas or emigrated.

We can't suddenly change all this around like magic and suddenly have a society like Holland or Germany where all the people live in either towns, cities or self contained villages with little or no ribbon developments and one off housing. Ireland is the way it is and decent broadband will have to be eventually made available everywhere just like the way electricity was made available throughout the land.

You're talking like there's this ancient tradition of one off and ribbon development in Ireland. There really isn't. It started in the post war years and accelerated into the 1960s as widespread car ownership became realistic.

I'd well believe your 40% figure and we are constantly reminded that we "need people living in the countryside to put food on our table". Well, yeah we do need some people living close to or or their farms (however modern farming is a far cry from 100 years ago. Even milking can be and is done with no human intervention these days). Intersting that you reckon 40% of people live in rural Ireland while the CSO says only 11.2% of the labour force works in Agriculture, forestry and fishing. Take away those on the periperhy and I bet the actual number of people who have to live outside a rural village is around 1% of the population.

It's a bogus and completely fictional argument used by so many people on here (most of whom I'll wager are not working the land) that all these people in one off and ribbon development properties are salt of the earth farmers who we'd all starve without. continental Europe doesn't starve because their farmers tend to live in small hamlets and villages. I wonder if the suicide rate of farmers is as high in these countries as it is in wonderful Ireland where farmers are supposed to live in splendid isolation.

My mother's family is a classic example. She had 9 siblings who lived into adulthood. She grew up in a fairly poor household (just Granddad's army salary coming in) in a council house in Newbridge, Co. Kildare. They were poor enough that 3 of them were shipped off to cousins in England for a large part of their education. Now, nobody would claim that such children have any close ties to the land, they all grew up on that council estate in Newbridge so urban through and through. Fast forward 60 years and of the 9 siblings 4 live in one off/ribbon development housing in and around Newbridge, Naas, Kilcullen. That is the reality of who is living in these properties. They are a 1960s phenomenon that should have been prevented back then with proper planning, but they never really got it under control and the mindset established itself that we always lived like this. We really didn't.

R P McMurphy

All of these threads go the same direction. Is absolutely no point in having any of them as all wander to the same argument regardless of the topic in the op

azex

R P McMurphy wrote: »

All of these threads go the same direction. Is absolutely no point in having any of them as all wander to the same argument regardless of the topic in the op

More like, all thread go in the same direction.

murphaph

You guys want to discuss broadband speeds without looking at the root cause of the problem. It's ludicrous.

azex

murphaph wrote: »

You guys want to discuss broadband speeds without looking at the root cause of the problem. It's ludicrous.

Bestow your wisdom then mate

R P McMurphy

murphaph wrote: »

You guys want to discuss broadband speeds without looking at the root cause of the problem. It's ludicrous.

The issue of one off housing is covered in every other thread on broadband outside urban areas. It emerges and dominates every thread related to the topic. People are well aware of the issues related to it. It being repeated over and over in every thread adds little at this stage

murphaph

azex wrote: »

Bestow your wisdom then mate

Don't further encourage unsustainable development by using taxpayers' money to fund infrastructure to those who spent far less per m² for their one off property in the first place.

There's no moral obligation on wider society to stump up for those who chose to build outside towns and villages.

Rural towns and villages should be supported, up to and including high speed broadband using the latest technologies. One off properties in outlying areas: that's something people need to sort out for themselves or accept that splendid isolation also means poorer infrastructure. urban dwellers don't get subsidies to sound proof their homes due to the extra noise in towns!

@RP: I don't think rural one off dwellers are really aware of how expensive it is to supply and maintain their fixed line infrastructure. Reading these forums wouldn't give me that impression anyway.