Vectra C tie rod - possibly

Cass

As per the title i'm looking for a little help or guidance.

I have a 2004 Opel Vectra C (gts if that is relevant). Over the last few weeks/months i've noticed a subtle clunk. This only happens when the steering is turned quickly from right to left. It doesn't have to be much just a quick rocking of about 5 degrees is enough to produce the clunk. If i turn the steering slowly it does not happen.

Now when i'm traveling on the road i don't get a sound. However when i'm on uneven ground (say the cobblelock road of the towns main street) it comes into the car without any turning of the steering wheel.

I've new drop links, shock/struts, etc in the car so i know it's not these. I also replaced the front wishbones and rear control arms (upper). There is a bit of wear on the lower control arm and drop link (on the rear) but its not worthy of mention in relation to this problem. There are new bushes throughout and the anti roll bar bushings are perfect.

So this leaves me with only one other possible cause. Tie rods. Inner and tie rod ends. I took the wheels off the car and the knocking/clunking sound definitely seem to be coming from these.

The car has 130,000 miles and have not been replace since about 60,000 or so. I've the NCT on Thursday week so need to know would these be the likely cause given all the above nad if so are they an NCT fail?

I've checked my last NCT docket and while suspension and alignment is on the cert the car is well within the limits. I mention this because i was lazy with the last NCT and only got it done 4 months ago and the car flew through it.

Slip/Alignment Test (+18 to -18 m/km = fail)
Rear -> -7.0 m/km
Front -> -5.0 m/km

Suspension Test (over 30% = fail)
Imbalance front - 9%
Imbalance rear - 3%


I'll replace them regardless as they seem to need done, but with the NCT around the corner and things very, VERY, tight for the next couple of weeks i'm not sure i can afford to replace them if it's something else.

Any help, tips, etc. welcomed.

corsav6

Jack it up and check for play in the front wheels, grip both top and bottom and then both sides when checking for play. Then check the track rod ends and any other rubber components for cracks or leaking fluid.
If all seems fine then it'll probably pass Nct, but it's impossible to know because they could fail you on anything.

Cass

Right.

I've spent the day doing other stuff but took an hour to go through this with a fine-toothed comb.

I jacked up the car, again, and rocked the wheel top and bottom/side to side. There is no discernible movement in the wheel and the noise is barely there. IOW its very hard to replicate the sound using the wheel.

When i turn the steering wheel quickly from side to side it comes back into the car. I got my Father to do this while i checked. I had my hand on the tie rod the entire time and i got a slight sensation when it was on the track rod end, but only barely. As i moved my hand along the track rod towards the steering rack/track inner the "vibration" became much more noticeable.

With the wheel still off i could not manipulate the rod so i guess the wear on it is not problematic. By that i mean its not so bad that the wheel and rod show visible signs of being loose.

While i had the car up i checked the ARB, ball joint on the track rod end, rubbers on the wishbone, etc. All are in good to great quality. No signs of cracking, breaking, even wear. I also, just to be sure, checked the universal joint/knuckle on the steering column. Not a peep.

So here is my plan. Run it through the NCT. If it passes i'll replace them within the next few weeks anyway as i know there is some wear on them. If it fails and they point these out as the problem then i'll replace and re-test.

You're probably wondering why i don't just replace them before the test. Well without crying into your cornflakes, i've a lot of bills that need paying this week, including the NCT, and for the sake of €28 for the retest within the next 30 days i have to do it this way. Plus it'll give me a chance to do the rear lower control arm and drop links which i want replaced anyway.

Lucifer

Get someone to rock the steering wheel while you put your hand on the coil spring. I have had these give noises under the conditions you describe many times.

Cass

I checked the coil springs previously as i replaced the suspension all round and was worried i put the spring in wrong way round or not into the retainer cup. But its fine.

One question though. How can the springs make the clunking/knocking noise i'm hearing when the car is stationary, and i'm only rocking the steering 5-10 degrees either side of straight? IOW the springs are not loaded, the car is not moving, the wheels barely move, etc. I don't understand how it could be them under the given circumstances.

Thanks

irish bloke

It sounds to me like you have already diagnosed one as faulty. Anytime I am ever trying to find a faulty suspension part, I find a pry-bar very useful to manipulate joints.

You say you got a slight sensation when you had your hand on the joint and your father turned the wheel quickly. Did you check the other joint in the same way for the same sensation?

You would probably get a pair of tie rod ends for the same price as the re-test.

If it was me and I suspected a faulty one, I would just replace it first due to their low cost and ease of replacement,:)

Cass

irish bloke wrote: »

It sounds to me like you have already diagnosed one as faulty.

I'm not a mechanic so i doubt myself the whole time. Plus i done a silly thing last year and tried to self diagnose another issue and ended up spending twice as much as i needed to. No harm in the end as i have new parts regardless, but i'm on invalidity pension and finances are finite. Its taken me over two weeks to get the spare cash to do the NCT.

Any other time i'd just replace the part. I don't have that luxury at the moment. So my bigger question and i suppose the reason for the thread was to get an idea from those in the know if it is the tie rods or am i missing something else.

So apologies if i seem to dismiss any other issue. I'm not actually being a dick, just i need lads to throw different ideas at me so i can see if i've checked them off and so leave the tie rods as the only culprit.

Anytime I am ever trying to find a faulty suspension part, I find a pry-bar very useful to manipulate joints.

I used one. At first i couldn't replicate the sound then when i got good purchase on it i could. I was thinking the top mount at first, but it's stable, no movement and the sound is definitely coming from lower down than the top mount.

You say you got a slight sensation when you had your hand on the joint and your father turned the wheel quickly. Did you check the other joint in the same way for the same sensation?

I did. It's there too. Not as prevalent as the nearside, but i'd assume that is the case due to potholes, etc. and the nearside getting more "work" that the offside.

You would probably get a pair of tie rod ends for the same price as the re-test.

Was quoted €50 including vodka and tonic.

If it was me and I suspected a faulty one, I would just replace it first due to their low cost and ease of replacement,:)

I'll see if i can scrounge together the few bob and just get them. The ARB seems to slightly in the way and the space is tight, but if i turn the steering all the way to one side (the side i'm working on) i reckon i'll get an adjustable spanner onto the nut.

One last question. I've read elsewhere that worn tie rods (inner or outer) are a fail. It's not on the test sheet they give you but i presume so are a lot of things they test. IOW with the little bit of wear on them they could fail?

irish bloke

A quick look on micksgarage and you can pick one up for under €15 for a 2004 vectra GTS with free delivery. I bough one for an 07 5-series BMW for €18 recently

http://www.micksgarage.com/search/tie%20rod%20ends/opel/opel%20vectra/vectra%20c%20gts%202002%20to%202008/1.8/140

Your comment: "At first i couldn't replicate the sound then when i got good purchase on it i could" if you are referring to purchase on the tie rod end then this is your culprit.

A lot of the time these are replaced in pairs therefore the other side could be on the way out too.

Its hard to say what to do in your circumstance due to finance.

Leave it go and take the chance, it might very well pass but you knock will still be there.:)

Bite the bullet and replace it, you have pretty much replaced all other components on the front suspension

I had a knock on a car for a long time I thought was from the front suspension and couldn't locate it. It turned out to be a worn engine mount.

Cass

irish bloke wrote: »

A quick look on micksgarage and you can pick one up for under €15 for a 2004 vectra GTS with free delivery. I bough one for an 07 5-series BMW for €18 recently

http://www.micksgarage.com/search/tie%20rod%20ends/opel/opel%20vectra/vectra%20c%20gts%202002%20to%202008/1.8/140

Your comment: "At first i couldn't replicate the sound then when i got good purchase on it i could" if you are referring to purchase on the tie rod end then this is your culprit.

Nearly 100% sure its not the end but the inner. The track rod end rubber is good, no play, no movement and no sensation when i shake the steering wheel.

I also checked Micksgarage for the inners, but the ones i selected showed there were only one of each.

I managed to scrounge the money together so it's off to the motor factor in the morning to get the new inners. I'm happy enough these are the problem but even if they're not there is something up with them and i'd like it changed.

Thanks for the suggestions, and for the troubleshooting.

Cass

Forgot all about this. Solved it in the end. It was an improperly tightened drop link.

I replaced the suspension and drop links on it about a year ago. Done everything up tight as i thought. A couple of weeks back, shortly after my last post in this thread, the noise was still there and getting on my nerves. I jacked the car up, took of the wheel and still could not replicate the noise. When i put the wheel back on, dropped the car down i could by lifting the corner of the car by hand. IOW bouncing it.

I tried the same on the drivers side and nothing so it's definitely the nearside. After eliminating the track rod, strut, spring, etc the only thing i could think of was drop link or control arm bushes. I had my Father listen for the noice as i bounced the car from the nearside rear. As i was doing it the noise stopped. My Father had his hand on the back of the drop link, at the top, and when he released his grip the noise started again.

So i jacked the car up and off came the wheel again. The drop looked fine and was very tight. So i got a second jack and lifted the hub. NOW the noise was in it. The top of the drop link, while well screwed in, was not stitched tight. As a result it was "free" to move slightly when the weight of the car was on the wheel. Its why i could not replicate the issue when it was jacked up.

I took off the drop link entirely, checked the link and rubbers and re-fitted it. This time i ran them in with the air gun. Replaced the wheel and drove it for about half an hour around the local roads. Not a sound. No knocking, clinking, nothing.

Thanks again to everyone above for their help. In the end it pays to properly check, and as i said in post three, not to dismiss something because its new. Could have saved myself a lot of time, head scratching and headache.

corsav6

I do love that feeling you get when you solve a problem

My 09 vectra hatch has a clunk on the front passenger side, I think it a brake pads so I'm going to do discs and pads and grease up the calipers.
Flywheel is showing early signs of failure so start saving for that.
Turbo has a nice whine to it now, especially when cold so hoping it's an exhaust leak or some other air leak, power is spot on and no smoke so hopefully not turbo bearings
Egr is well overdue a clean so that needs doing, dirty egr can cause turbo whine so hoping to kill 2 birds on the cheap there
The back is knocking so bad now I'm surprised the axle is still there, so bushings needed in a bad way. Tracking is out so might aswell replace track rods too, drop links and wishbones were done 8 months ago so all grand there.

So owning a vectra is fun
But in fairness we do about 20k miles per year and it's mostly short runs and the odd blast out the road. Every part bar the brake pads and a few bulbs are from the factory and it's got 118k miles on it now so I'm happy replacing all the listed bits and keeping it serviced every 6k if it's does another relatively trouble free miles.